Can we maybe come up with a banishment alternative now, rather than letting it rot in beta? No one likes the mechanic generally, it is useful but it is not fun. Surely there has to be something worthwhile that can be done that isn't just kai banish lite.
Why not replace any banish effect with something that hinders DPS or participation but does not shut it off outright - maybe a flat reduction of damage dealt, or a flat penalty to balance/eq consumed? I think the point of giving it to Summoners is to deal with pinpoint problem targets or a person outnumbering you in a solo fight/small 2v2 or 3v3, now that aeon's bottleneck on commands will be gone.
<div>Message #2062 Sent By: (imperian) Received On: 1/20/2018/2:59</div><div>"Antioch has filed a bounty against you. Reason: Raiding Antioch and stealing Bina, being a right</div><div>ass, and not belonging anywhere near Antioch till he grows up."</div>
Yeah, the damage potential of this class could be huge and some of the listed abilities legitimately scare me, but it depends on how they're set up (percentage vs straight numbers or whatever) to see just how devastating they are.
Banishment is no fun at all to deal with. Most of shardfall and obelisk combat is a numbers game anyways. More often than not, people ONLY fight when they have the numerical advantage. 2/3 of the game doesn't need on tap ability to -1 the other team (which is probably outnumbered anyways).
And banishment might not work at all, but it's half as powerful as Monk (1/3rd if you don't take the -2 dex) and fills a role. The need for pacing is real, because Demonic isn't sitting on a goldmine of on-demand damage.
If it doesn't work with the class, that should be apparent fairly quickly.
I understand why demonic -needs- banishment. I still say banishment is a bad mechanic and I think it needs to be out of the game.
Pk is for fighting. Not being in a 15s penalty box watching your friends die only to jump out on the ice and join them 15s later in a x v. 1 scenario. Fun times.
If Summoner is as bursty as it appears to be on paper, I will be against banish. If Summoner turns out to be the Demonic 'cannon' class (druid, templar, wardancer), then it also shouldn't get to be their finesse / control class.
But until I see the class, I won't be able to judge that. If Summoner turns out to be another slow burn affliction class with a big finisher, give me banish.
I wouldn't think any int class is now squishy after the change to intelligent statpack. I've noticed a significant increase in my tankiness as a mage/bard now compare to previously. I would say fast is way more squishier. While intelligent is still squishy, give it that many defensive add on makes it a very good offensive statpack as well as a defensive statpack for summoner. However, we'll keep this discussion till the beta
Dream scenario: They'd go back into the demonic circle and spread the usefulness around here and there, rather than putting it all in one or two class redesigns.
It seems like damn near every other class that has been revamped has seen itself acquire an entourage of combat-mandatory pets. Druid roots, bard sketches, hunter basilisks, sabs and their lamia/phantom, predators and their bearspiderbirds. A stupid, irritating, frustrating entourage of combat mandatory things that get lost when you fly, when you tumble, when you get feared out of the room.
And so Summoner, the pet class of Imperian, gets... innate auras that are absolutely 100% worry free and which don't tack an extra 3.5-4 seconds of balance onto every non-standard room movement.
Meh.
"On the battlefield I am a god. I love war. The steel, the smell, the corpses. I wish there were more. On the first day I drove the Northmen back alone at the ford. Alone! On the second I carried the bridge! Me! Yesterday I climbed the Heroes! I love war! I… I wish it wasn’t over."
It seems like damn near every other class that has been revamped has seen itself acquire an entourage of combat-mandatory pets. Druid roots, bard sketches, hunter basilisks, sabs and their lamia/phantom, predators and their bearspiderbirds. A stupid, irritating, frustrating entourage of combat mandatory things that get lost when you fly, when you tumble, when you get feared out of the room.
And so Summoner, the pet class of Imperian, gets... innate auras that are absolutely 100% worry free and which don't tack an extra 3.5-4 seconds of balance onto every non-standard room movement.
Meh.
Druid has it so bad! I wish we'd move from 'npc' pets anyways.
It seems like damn near every other class that has been revamped has seen itself acquire an entourage of combat-mandatory pets. Druid roots, bard sketches, hunter basilisks, sabs and their lamia/phantom, predators and their bearspiderbirds. A stupid, irritating, frustrating entourage of combat mandatory things that get lost when you fly, when you tumble, when you get feared out of the room.
And so Summoner, the pet class of Imperian, gets... innate auras that are absolutely 100% worry free and which don't tack an extra 3.5-4 seconds of balance onto every non-standard room movement.
Meh.
Garryn did say to treat this Summoner as a new class. The old 'enslave demons and have them follow you around' motif was signature to the Occultists in two other IRE games - I'm happy to see them moving away from copying that same theme with the rewrite.
Also, heaven forbid they add a second class to the circle that doesn't have mandatory class pets to achieve a functional offense. Piridon and Istria will still follow the summoner around like normal.
Read the AB's again. It will be exactly like AM, just less on demand dps, seeing as we have to sacrifice any damage to be able to prone you, which is the only way Hangedman will function.
I'm terrible, but here's an alternative to banishment, if it's found that the mechanic is unwanted but not totally unnecessary: Upon unleashing Danaeus at a target, the victim will suffer from slightly (or substantially, testing would be needed) prolonged writhe times specifically when attempting to writhe from hanged man. There could be some nifty thematic explanation, like the ropes turn into demonic time chains or something. It would function similarly to flared runes, in that you only have so long to entangle the person, and then there would be a reasonable cooldown.
I know people hate Hangedman as it is, but this alternative would keep the victim in the fight, at least physically (as in, they aren't put into a void).
I'm terrible, but here's an alternative to banishment, if it's found that the mechanic is unwanted but not totally unnecessary: Upon unleashing Danaeus at a target, the victim will suffer from slightly (or substantially, testing would be needed) prolonged writhe times specifically when attempting to writhe from hanged man. There could be some nifty thematic explanation, like the ropes turn into demonic time chains or something. It would function similarly to flared runes, in that you only have so long to entangle the person, and then there would be a reasonable cooldown.
I know people hate Hangedman as it is, but this alternative would keep the victim in the fight, at least physically (as in, they aren't put into a void).
I'm terrible, but here's an alternative to banishment, if it's found that the mechanic is unwanted but not totally unnecessary: Upon unleashing Danaeus at a target, the victim will suffer from slightly (or substantially, testing would be needed) prolonged writhe times specifically when attempting to writhe from hanged man. There could be some nifty thematic explanation, like the ropes turn into demonic time chains or something. It would function similarly to flared runes, in that you only have so long to entangle the person, and then there would be a reasonable cooldown.
I know people hate Hangedman as it is, but this alternative would keep the victim in the fight, at least physically (as in, they aren't put into a void).
If that were ever the case, I'd hope torch tattoo and quicksilver items would stop it.
Unless I misunderstood how the Infuse mechanic works, it looks like you just need to infuse Hangedman with Heave to replicate current functionality.
Edit: What super hangedman?
@Garryn: What is the purpose of this? Does speed does SOMETHING in Imperian apart of protection vs current aeon? I know it used to increase avoidance or something in Achaea, and that is why you used to be able to raze it.
Syntax: INVOKE SOULWRACK <target> This spell wracks the soul of its target, causing magickal damage. The damage is reduced if the spell is infused. If the target's health is under 60%, this spell additionally strips the speed elixir defence and prevents it from being used or activated for 5 seconds.
I am loving this new stuff. Yes its going to be abused and fixed and people will whine but atleast ironrealms fixes its problems as quickly as it can instead of letting its customers suffer. Hooray for new mages, Hooray for new summoners.
Never give up, never surrender, and if you have to die, take some of them with you.
Correct me if I'm wrong, @Garryn, but the only thing about AEON that is changing is the effect. I'm thinking rather than removing the previous AEON affliction and adding a new one, he probably just changed the effect it has in the code. Would seem to be easier than making a new AEON for pvp only that exists seperately from the one mobs currently use. That brings up another question. Are mobs that use AEON going to use the new version, or get reworked to use something else? I think the mobs in Khous would likely work just fine with new AEON, but Barsul's icewall/blackout/aeon/insta combo would be less apt for the new AEON.
Thinking about this, can we get rid of the heave/hangedman interaction?
We've already gotten rid of spammable pindown, and IIRC, the only guaranteed one-command spammable writhe left in the game is hangedman.
"On the battlefield I am a god. I love war. The steel, the smell, the corpses. I wish there were more. On the first day I drove the Northmen back alone at the ford. Alone! On the second I carried the bridge! Me! Yesterday I climbed the Heroes! I love war! I… I wish it wasn’t over."
Are mobs that use AEON going to use the new version, or get reworked to use something else? I think the mobs in Khous would likely work just fine with new AEON, but Barsul's icewall/blackout/aeon/insta combo would be less apt for the new AEON.
Mobs that use aeon will now be using the new aeon.
We'll resolve the hangedman issue during the beta, one way or another.
Honestly, I'd rather see the on call, no restriction cc removed, rather than 'balanced' (upped for some) across the game. I'd also like to see all classes have a cap of 1 hard cc in their 3 skillsets and call it day. Why? Because being chain cc'd by one person almost indefinitely is stupid. No condition cc's should be cut back, so it's more about fighting intelligently and not just Wardancer103, Spam writhes.
The devilmark secondary attack is going away in favor of it either requiring setup or entangle being the entire attack, and the pet attacks are going away in favor of more active abilities cooldowns. The entire 'hangedman spam' experience is being diminished.
Edit: It's also important to note that the inability to infuse via doppleganger means no ranged hangedman entangles against people that are fleeing.
The devilmark secondary attack is going away in favor of it either requiring setup or entangle being the entire attack, and the pet attacks are going away in favor of more active abilities cooldowns. The entire 'hangedman spam' experience is being diminished.
Edit: It's also important to note that the inability to infuse via doppleganger means no ranged hangedman entangles against people that are fleeing.
Stop it Juran STOP IT RIGHT NOW. These people that never pk are crying about things they legitimately didn't read or pay attention to and you are countering that with logic and empirical evidence. That is NOT how forums work.
Comments
But until I see the class, I won't be able to judge that. If Summoner turns out to be another slow burn affliction class with a big finisher, give me banish.
One thing that really bothers me.
It seems like damn near every other class that has been revamped has seen itself acquire an entourage of combat-mandatory pets. Druid roots, bard sketches, hunter basilisks, sabs and their lamia/phantom, predators and their bearspiderbirds. A stupid, irritating, frustrating entourage of combat mandatory things that get lost when you fly, when you tumble, when you get feared out of the room.
And so Summoner, the pet class of Imperian, gets... innate auras that are absolutely 100% worry free and which don't tack an extra 3.5-4 seconds of balance onto every non-standard room movement.
Meh.
"On the battlefield I am a god. I love war. The steel, the smell, the corpses. I wish there were more. On the first day I drove the Northmen back alone at the ford. Alone! On the second I carried the bridge! Me! Yesterday I climbed the Heroes! I love war! I… I wish it wasn’t over."
Also, heaven forbid they add a second class to the circle that doesn't have mandatory class pets to achieve a functional offense. Piridon and Istria will still follow the summoner around like normal.
Edit: What super hangedman?
@Garryn: What is the purpose of this? Does speed does SOMETHING in Imperian apart of protection vs current aeon? I know it used to increase avoidance or something in Achaea, and that is why you used to be able to raze it.
Syntax: INVOKE SOULWRACK <target>
This spell wracks the soul of its target, causing magickal damage. The damage is reduced if the spell is infused.
If the target's health is under 60%, this spell additionally strips the speed elixir defence and prevents it from being used or activated for 5 seconds.
Thinking about this, can we get rid of the heave/hangedman interaction?
We've already gotten rid of spammable pindown, and IIRC, the only guaranteed one-command spammable writhe left in the game is hangedman.
"On the battlefield I am a god. I love war. The steel, the smell, the corpses. I wish there were more. On the first day I drove the Northmen back alone at the ford. Alone! On the second I carried the bridge! Me! Yesterday I climbed the Heroes! I love war! I… I wish it wasn’t over."
We'll resolve the hangedman issue during the beta, one way or another.