Just because Imperian is now Free to Play doesn't mean it should shower you with credits. It should be HARD to get them, else it devalues their worth completely. Enjoy the struggle. It makes achieving your goals that much more rewarding. I'm honestly considering returning because of this.
I think 5, 4, 4, 3, 2, 2 would be a better progression. Hell, 5, 5, 5, 3, 1, 1. I don't think having credits in the game is a bad thing at this point in time. Very few people are going to get 20 daily.
Just because Imperian is now Free to Play doesn't mean it should shower you with credits. It should be HARD to get them, else it devalues their worth completely. Enjoy the struggle. It makes achieving your goals that much more rewarding.
20 credits a day even if they were for just logging in for 5 minutes is not actively showering anyone with credits. That's still 58 days just to trans 4 combat relevant general skills (not including weaponry since not all classes need that and discounting artifacts) and if my goal is to fight (it is) if I want to be able to survive against a basic bashing combo mash from a whale I actively need more than that still. In point of fact, the skills as they currently stand are the cheapest option for survival benefit in fights over pretty much anything else. That's why people generally get them before artifacts usually. There's a baseline amount of things needed to fight, and the cost to get those it was one of the biggest complaints of people new to IRE (and one that most people put up with because they understood that IRE needed to make money). Imperian having gone completely free now means that they don't actively lose money by letting people just have those skills. And people don't automatically just end up at Septus level status because they don't have to spend credits on skills.
I think adding lessons for bashing 250 mobs or gaining lessons the first time you complete a quest will go a long way in feeling good about earning your skills without "showering credits".
So uhh... I've been Champion for the past 3 1/2 hours, and haven't actually gotten anything... Is it bugged and not working? Bugged and not working for Leechwood champions?
Not phased.
Not in a towne.
Not in a city.
Been out bashing the majority of the time... Sitting afk right out in the open for the rest...
Just because Imperian is now Free to Play doesn't mean it should shower you with credits. It should be HARD to get them, else it devalues their worth completely. Enjoy the struggle. It makes achieving your goals that much more rewarding.
20 credits a day even if they were for just logging in for 5 minutes is not actively showering anyone with credits. That's still 58 days just to trans 4 combat relevant general skills (not including weaponry since not all classes need that and discounting artifacts) and if my goal is to fight (it is) if I want to be able to survive against a basic bashing combo mash from a whale I actively need more than that still. In point of fact, the skills as they currently stand are the cheapest option for survival benefit in fights over pretty much anything else. That's why people generally get them before artifacts usually. There's a baseline amount of things needed to fight, and the cost to get those it was one of the biggest complaints of people new to IRE (and one that most people put up with because they understood that IRE needed to make money). Imperian having gone completely free now means that they don't actively lose money by letting people just have those skills. And people don't automatically just end up at Septus level status because they don't have to spend credits on skills.
The answer then is not to increase credits being handed out as that will inflate artifacts across the board, but implement lesson gain. Perhaps you could toggle whether to receive lessons instead of credits at a suitably increased rate so that it doesn't take you two months to trans out a bunch of skills.
Just because Imperian is now Free to Play doesn't mean it should shower you with credits. It should be HARD to get them, else it devalues their worth completely. Enjoy the struggle. It makes achieving your goals that much more rewarding.
20 credits a day even if they were for just logging in for 5 minutes is not actively showering anyone with credits. That's still 58 days just to trans 4 combat relevant general skills (not including weaponry since not all classes need that and discounting artifacts) and if my goal is to fight (it is) if I want to be able to survive against a basic bashing combo mash from a whale I actively need more than that still. In point of fact, the skills as they currently stand are the cheapest option for survival benefit in fights over pretty much anything else. That's why people generally get them before artifacts usually. There's a baseline amount of things needed to fight, and the cost to get those it was one of the biggest complaints of people new to IRE (and one that most people put up with because they understood that IRE needed to make money). Imperian having gone completely free now means that they don't actively lose money by letting people just have those skills. And people don't automatically just end up at Septus level status because they don't have to spend credits on skills.
The answer then is not to increase credits being handed out as that will inflate artifacts across the board, but implement lesson gain. Perhaps you could toggle whether to receive lessons instead of credits at a suitably increased rate so that it doesn't take you two months to trans out a bunch of skills.
Except there's a baseline level of artifact required to not get bashing attacked to death. I have firsthand knowledge of that one having both been the guy that just bashingattacked newbs to death before I retired, and going further back having been bashingattacked to death. Minimum to fight is likely surcoat, romb, bracelets 1. Probably would need more realistically.
The solution is to break the need of credits for lessons. Dont ask us to choose one or another, that is exacerbating the problem. Remove the necessity of the choice to begin with
If Imperian actually cares even a little bit about attracting all of these big boys from other games and having them stick around for even a little bit, need to at the very least find a way of letting them get an initial glut of... something that allows them to kit themselves out and kill anyone and everyone in the game. Even MacGyver needed conveniently placed "junk". Also, the Vanilla editor auto corrects "MacGyver" and that is pretty much the best thing to happen to me so far this morning.
Just because Imperian is now Free to Play doesn't mean it should shower you with credits. It should be HARD to get them, else it devalues their worth completely. Enjoy the struggle. It makes achieving your goals that much more rewarding.
20 credits a day even if they were for just logging in for 5 minutes is not actively showering anyone with credits. That's still 58 days just to trans 4 combat relevant general skills (not including weaponry since not all classes need that and discounting artifacts) and if my goal is to fight (it is) if I want to be able to survive against a basic bashing combo mash from a whale I actively need more than that still. In point of fact, the skills as they currently stand are the cheapest option for survival benefit in fights over pretty much anything else. That's why people generally get them before artifacts usually. There's a baseline amount of things needed to fight, and the cost to get those it was one of the biggest complaints of people new to IRE (and one that most people put up with because they understood that IRE needed to make money). Imperian having gone completely free now means that they don't actively lose money by letting people just have those skills. And people don't automatically just end up at Septus level status because they don't have to spend credits on skills.
The answer then is not to increase credits being handed out as that will inflate artifacts across the board, but implement lesson gain. Perhaps you could toggle whether to receive lessons instead of credits at a suitably increased rate so that it doesn't take you two months to trans out a bunch of skills.
Except there's a baseline level of artifact required to not get bashing attacked to death. I have firsthand knowledge of that one having both been the guy that just bashingattacked newbs to death before I retired, and going further back having been bashingattacked to death. Minimum to fight is likely surcoat, romb, bracelets 1. Probably would need more realistically.
The bracelets you can get via an achievement. 100k kills.
I'd be cool if you could get the others via achievements as well.
Idea! So, we already have mobs with "point" values for things like Great Hunts and what not.
Can we tie credit generation to that?
For example, you first need 250 points to get your first credit tick. Then the next would need 500, then 1000, so on and so forth.
The issue right now is that most of the credit-generating activities are either PK-related or gated by spawnwaves. Both are limited; PK-ones by, well, them being PK, and spawnwaves by their availability. The latter one would become even more limited as the population grows (which is the goal, I hope!).
So, my suggestion would hopefully add a "generic" way to generate the daily 20 without, hopefully, being too easy (but still should be doable).
edit: another suggestion!
Right now, you can get doubloons/credits if you bash at least 30% of the spawnwave mobs. This is a bit tricky, because some people hunt better and faster than others. Specifically, it's hard for an established player to bash with newer ones because the former's firepower means they get a lot of the killing blows (yay, crits!).
If it's possible, can we make it so that anyone who:
1) is part of the same ring as the person who got the killing blow that finished the spawnwave mob
and either
2a) has killed at least 10% of the spawnwave mobs or
2b) is in the same room as Person 1
gets credit for...credits and doubloons?
currently tentatively active (may vanish for periods of time)
Just because Imperian is now Free to Play doesn't mean it should shower you with credits. It should be HARD to get them, else it devalues their worth completely. Enjoy the struggle. It makes achieving your goals that much more rewarding.
20 credits a day even if they were for just logging in for 5 minutes is not actively showering anyone with credits. That's still 58 days just to trans 4 combat relevant general skills (not including weaponry since not all classes need that and discounting artifacts) and if my goal is to fight (it is) if I want to be able to survive against a basic bashing combo mash from a whale I actively need more than that still. In point of fact, the skills as they currently stand are the cheapest option for survival benefit in fights over pretty much anything else. That's why people generally get them before artifacts usually. There's a baseline amount of things needed to fight, and the cost to get those it was one of the biggest complaints of people new to IRE (and one that most people put up with because they understood that IRE needed to make money). Imperian having gone completely free now means that they don't actively lose money by letting people just have those skills. And people don't automatically just end up at Septus level status because they don't have to spend credits on skills.
The answer then is not to increase credits being handed out as that will inflate artifacts across the board, but implement lesson gain. Perhaps you could toggle whether to receive lessons instead of credits at a suitably increased rate so that it doesn't take you two months to trans out a bunch of skills.
Except there's a baseline level of artifact required to not get bashing attacked to death. I have firsthand knowledge of that one having both been the guy that just bashingattacked newbs to death before I retired, and going further back having been bashingattacked to death. Minimum to fight is likely surcoat, romb, bracelets 1. Probably would need more realistically.
The bracelets you can get via an achievement. 100k kills.
I'd be cool if you could get the others via achievements as well.
The bracelets are actually a ton of work (especially if you don't already have artifacts) for a relatively baseline artifact. But I'm all for achievements giving artifacts instead of credits. especially ones that are reasonable to farm at low artifacts for the more baseline arties.
Speaking of baselines - We discussed removing the diadem and boosting eq speeds to compensate several times in the council. Seems like this would be a good time to do it, IMO.
I guess I just don't see the point of Artifacts (not lessons) being easy to get or much 'easier than now' to obtain. It's entirely possible that's due to me being still in the mindset of Pay for Bonuses IRE model.
But, regarding what you said @Gjarrus about removing the diadem and boosting EQ speeds, I want to know what the point is? If you're going to change the base values of something like EQ, where does it stop? Why not adjust the values for Stats? For Damage? Remove stat artifacts. Remove artifact weapons. Remove collars. Adjust crits. Remove crit pendants. Etc and so on.
I guess I'm trying to understand what's the point of artifacts at all going on that line of thinking.
Basically, if you're going to go free, why -would- you keep all of the bloat that goes with a pay for perks game? Further, Imperian's biggest shot at having some sort of temporary renaissance, is probably to attract major players from other games - who almost certainly wouldn't be coming for the grindier bits of an IRE.
Speed artifacts are rougher on game balance than others, which is why Diadem was brought up in those conversations. Otherwise, that's quite the slippery slope of an argument.
E: I'd also include the dirk, dartsheath, and bows, but they would need a better replacement than magnanimous equality.
An alternative would be to make doubloons / temporary artifacts easier to get, while maintaining the current model of permanent artifacts.
That might be less grind-y enough for the casual PK monsters (I say that very lovingly ), while leaving artifacts as a legitimate goal for the more dedicated.
currently tentatively active (may vanish for periods of time)
I guess I just don't see the point of Artifacts (not lessons) being easy to get or much 'easier than now' to obtain. It's entirely possible that's due to me being still in the mindset of Pay for Bonuses IRE model.
But, regarding what you said @Gjarrus about removing the diadem and boosting EQ speeds, I want to know what the point is? If you're going to change the base values of something like EQ, where does it stop? Why not adjust the values for Stats? For Damage? Remove stat artifacts. Remove artifact weapons. Remove collars. Adjust crits. Remove crit pendants. Etc and so on.
I guess I'm trying to understand what's the point of artifacts at all going on that line of thinking.
It was never really 'okay' what was needed to be competitive reliably against the most artifacted players in the game. It was just put up with because IRE needs to make money. If imperian no longer is intended to generate money, and you want it to actually get players and have them be able to compete, they need to be able to get the baseline artifacts in a reasonable timeframe. (we're not deleting all artifacts because whales are still a thing and it's way more complicated than just making it possible to generate credits in game).
If we didn't change diadem then, I'm not sure changing it now is needed. but the logic is that it makes balancing certain classes exceptionally hard because at the high pace of combat you can pretty easily get into a situation where either Diadem is required for a class to be able to fight or else the class just isn't fast enough, or Diadem takes a class from competitive to broken
We didn't do it before because of either a - greed for that 800c buy in or b - glacial and sporadic development. Seemed pretty unanimously agreed upon that speed artis were bad juju. I brought it up in the context of the speed to arbitrary baseline convo since that's 40 days of full daily grinding for something pretty trashy design-wise.
We didn't do it before because of either a - greed for that 800c buy in or b - glacial and sporadic development. Seemed pretty unanimously agreed upon that speed artis were bad juju. I brought it up in the context of the speed to arbitrary baseline convo since that's 40 days of full daily grinding for something pretty trashy design-wise.
Dirk and Dartsheathe for sure are problems. Diadem I don't like (iirc my exact words during that conversation was that Diadem was the greatest single balancing mistake ever made in Imperian) but diadem is more a problem because of the breadth it applies to, less so because the impact is so massive on any one specific output. Ultimately I think it'd end up pretty far down my list of priorities right now, but I'm unsure of how much work it would actually take to implement major changes for diadem.
I am working on adding a few other ways to generate daily credits for players.
I'm also seriously considering removing some of the problem causing artis, such as the diadem and veil.
All for veil dying. Diadem may well take a lot of work, but I'm not against it if people behind the scenes are willing to do that. Would also maybe say making some of the old QoL arties for crafting stuff baseline would be good. But that's all up to you guys
@Jeremy Saunders Are there any plans to let us buy the token packages with credits following these changes? I see no good reason not to allow us easier access to tokens with this transition.
Since money isn't as big of an issue now, perhaps opening a permanent lesson sale on the website for those who want to purchase those directly instead. But at lower cost than what they were previously, since credits have multiple uses it'd make sense to keep those at their normal price... Lessons however tend to be the most important thing by far to new people, so allowing them to get those for money if they choose would likely go a long way.
You mentioned allowing them to bypass parts of the grind, this would help a lot. $10 for 500 lessons for example, would make transing a skill be a little over $30 instead of being a little over $100... Prices competitive-ish to the no-brainer packs (but not beating them)... Or just remove the limit of 2 no-brainer lesson packs, that'd be amazing too...
Just because Imperian is now Free to Play doesn't mean it should shower you with credits. It should be HARD to get them, else it devalues their worth completely. Enjoy the struggle. It makes achieving your goals that much more rewarding.
20 credits a day even if they were for just logging in for 5 minutes is not actively showering anyone with credits. That's still 58 days just to trans 4 combat relevant general skills (not including weaponry since not all classes need that and discounting artifacts) and if my goal is to fight (it is) if I want to be able to survive against a basic bashing combo mash from a whale I actively need more than that still. In point of fact, the skills as they currently stand are the cheapest option for survival benefit in fights over pretty much anything else. That's why people generally get them before artifacts usually. There's a baseline amount of things needed to fight, and the cost to get those it was one of the biggest complaints of people new to IRE (and one that most people put up with because they understood that IRE needed to make money). Imperian having gone completely free now means that they don't actively lose money by letting people just have those skills. And people don't automatically just end up at Septus level status because they don't have to spend credits on skills.
The answer then is not to increase credits being handed out as that will inflate artifacts across the board, but implement lesson gain. Perhaps you could toggle whether to receive lessons instead of credits at a suitably increased rate so that it doesn't take you two months to trans out a bunch of skills.
Except there's a baseline level of artifact required to not get bashing attacked to death. I have firsthand knowledge of that one having both been the guy that just bashingattacked newbs to death before I retired, and going further back having been bashingattacked to death. Minimum to fight is likely surcoat, romb, bracelets 1. Probably would need more realistically.
The bracelets you can get via an achievement. 100k kills.
I'd be cool if you could get the others via achievements as well.
The bracelets are actually a ton of work (especially if you don't already have artifacts) for a relatively baseline artifact. But I'm all for achievements giving artifacts instead of credits. especially ones that are reasonable to farm at low artifacts for the more baseline arties.
Could do something like level 1 bracelets are for 10k mob kills level 2 for 50k mob kills and level3 for 100k mob kills.
Comments
(may vanish for periods of time)
Can we tie credit generation to that?
For example, you first need 250 points to get your first credit tick. Then the next would need 500, then 1000, so on and so forth.
The issue right now is that most of the credit-generating activities are either PK-related or gated by spawnwaves. Both are limited; PK-ones by, well, them being PK, and spawnwaves by their availability. The latter one would become even more limited as the population grows (which is the goal, I hope!).
So, my suggestion would hopefully add a "generic" way to generate the daily 20 without, hopefully, being too easy (but still should be doable).
edit: another suggestion!
Right now, you can get doubloons/credits if you bash at least 30% of the spawnwave mobs. This is a bit tricky, because some people hunt better and faster than others. Specifically, it's hard for an established player to bash with newer ones because the former's firepower means they get a lot of the killing blows (yay, crits!).
If it's possible, can we make it so that anyone who:
1) is part of the same ring as the person who got the killing blow that finished the spawnwave mob
and either
2a) has killed at least 10% of the spawnwave mobs or
2b) is in the same room as Person 1
gets credit for...credits and doubloons?
(may vanish for periods of time)
But, regarding what you said @Gjarrus about removing the diadem and boosting EQ speeds, I want to know what the point is? If you're going to change the base values of something like EQ, where does it stop? Why not adjust the values for Stats? For Damage? Remove stat artifacts. Remove artifact weapons. Remove collars. Adjust crits. Remove crit pendants. Etc and so on.
I guess I'm trying to understand what's the point of artifacts at all going on that line of thinking.
E: I'd also include the dirk, dartsheath, and bows, but they would need a better replacement than magnanimous equality.
That might be less grind-y enough for the casual PK monsters (I say that very lovingly
(may vanish for periods of time)
If we didn't change diadem then, I'm not sure changing it now is needed. but the logic is that it makes balancing certain classes exceptionally hard because at the high pace of combat you can pretty easily get into a situation where either Diadem is required for a class to be able to fight or else the class just isn't fast enough, or Diadem takes a class from competitive to broken
I'm also seriously considering removing some of the problem causing artis, such as the diadem and veil.
/s