Never seen people get so salty, so quickly. And I've played a lot of WoW, LoL, Overwatch, etc. I will say I enjoy the constant, immediate jumping, to OOC comments the second it happens, though.
Even in the age of the gods there was a time where Antioch let people of magickal alignment enter the city shop/talk to people etc. It offered lots of yummy rp about policing the dirty magickers and making sure they didn't use/weren't carrying filthy magick items
I rarely reply to enemies in game if I'm in a fight, or if a bunch of fights just finished, not to be rude, but it just keeps things from escalating. When it comes to PK, I really do think this is the best approach unless you are one of the actual top players in the game, or if you already have have a REALLY good rapport with that enemy. Or, if I must, I answer, very briefly, very neutrally. You have to understand that even people you're friendly with can get salty if your team killed their team, or they sort of just can't help gloating a bit if they killed yours.
It seems to be a near constant in PK, at least since I have ever played.
PK is so completely IC and OOC at the same time. I don't know if there is anything else that people get so emotionally invested in, living (and dying) through their character and certainly playing a sort of "role" there. In a sense it's one of the ultimate roles in the game. Because of that, it is also VERY much the player experiencing all of that.
It's one of the reasons a lot of big PK-ers enjoy trash-talking so much, too. It's part of the role. But I would definitely say that any "RP" that does happen around any reasonably hotly contested fight is the thinnest of veneers for like... 98% player sass/butthurt/insults to your mother.
While I'm less likely to step in directly for says, if someone is blatantly OOC in shouts, issue them, or yourself. I can and will remove someone's ability to shout.
PVP is one of the chief focal points of some of the most memorable RP Ive had in Aetolia, and the mostly-ooc and often quite metagamey nature of PVP here is why I have a hard time getting into it here.
While I'm less likely to step in directly for says, if someone is blatantly OOC in shouts, issue them, or yourself. I can and will remove someone's ability to shout.
May I ask why this is, out of curiosity? HELP OOC pretty openly says "you should not talk about OOC matters on any public channel" - Says are public. Not public in the sense that Market or Shouts are, but still public nonetheless. Beyond that, it says you shouldn't to anyone who you don't know would want to hear it. Wherein the same concept applies.
For room-only things, in general, we leave that to be policed by players. For game-wide things, we're more likely to directly enforce things.
If there's a chronic problem, and we're made aware of it, then we'll probably speak with (and possibly punish) the person or people in question.
Noted. 'Policing' has been attempted multiple times with the person in question, to my knowledge, will keep this in mind for the next time it may arise.
IGNORE works to solve the problem for yourself, but it doesn't exactly help the problem as a whole. Particularly when the people in question have zero inclination to curb the behaviour themselves.
eta, and OT: What the hell is up with forums linespacing, lately? >.>
PVP is one of the chief focal points of some of the most memorable RP Ive had in Aetolia, and the mostly-ooc and often quite metagamey nature of PVP here is why I have a hard time getting into it here.
You probably had a rapport with those people. That's different. It can/does happen. But I think part of why you also left Aetolia was griefing/the inherent "intensity" of PVP, yeah? PVP is just viciously competitive, in every game, from what I can tell (and I mean, that should surprise no one, pretty much all competitive games seem to be that way), even while a lot of people eventually sort of become "friendly" in a way.
The thing about PK is that it's very much players competing against other players. It really is. It has other aspects that are more IC, but you can't really avoid that part. So even if people maintain that razor thin veneer of IC-ness when they taunt/berate/insult your mother's choice of profession, it is almost always veneer, and nothing more than that, so I would definitely consider it "OOC" in that sense - period. I used to get so confused when I would watch people "RP" being horribly, horribly toxic to each other "IC" in one IRE, and I was like... is that RP, or is that real? And the game's veterans said "oh, it's very real, they hate each other". And well, I guess, DUH. In that case, it wasn't PK, but another hotly contested game activity - politics. And that's when it started to click for me, "mean" RP is almost always, always, always very much OOC. Always. So in a way, I actually appreciate it when they just go "you suck, no YOU suck", because I know that's what's up anyway (I am still probably not replying either way though).
EDIT: basically, without commenting on what "should" or "shouldn't" be done by admin or whatever, I personally find it hard to get super duper outraged about the mere fact of people going "OOC" surrounding PK.
Yes, PvP is competing against other players. That's literally what PvP means.
Fact of the matter is, nothing that happens IG is OOC. If what you're doing IC is motivated by OOC feelings, then you're most likely part of the problem in being unable to separate the two, and should probably stop interacting with those people. Outliers to that rule would be going after someone you hate at a shardfall, because you have an actual IC excuse to be doing so. That is, they are open PK, thus you don't need any other reason to target them specifically.
It's kind of like Owyn trying to call me out in shouts, when Kalynthari herself, has literally never spoken to him once. Hell I have never spoken to him once ICly, because he is incapable of separating the two. These kinds of problems are the ones that people have been talking about this entire thread, where people get pissy OOCly at someone and try to take it out on them as some thinly-veiled IC excuse that doesn't actually exist, because they think they can get away with it.
Bottom line is, if you think people are wrong to get "outraged" at people being unable to separate the two, just because you think OOC is warranted... You are part of the problem. I mean this in the nicest way possible, not actually knowing you. There is no reason for it. If you're talking anywhere that isn't an OOC clan, then you should stay IC like HELP OOC says to.
It's kind of like Owyn trying to call me out in shouts, when Kalynthari herself, has literally never spoken to him once. Hell I have never spoken to him once ICly, because he is incapable of separating the two. These kinds of problems are the ones that people have been talking about this entire thread, where people get pissy OOCly at someone and try to take it out on them as some thinly-veiled IC excuse that doesn't actually exist, because they think they can get away with it.
I'll respond to this part. Since when does someone have to speak "directly" to another char for their own char to know that that other char is full of itself and by all rights -should- be unable to resist such taunts to come out and fight (thinking so highly of themselves, after all). And of -course- that stuff is player driven. All around. Despite being "IC".
Half the time it goes "person talks trash in game, but is talking 'OOC' to third parties, and so thinks their char is just an innocent boy scout helping little old ladies across the street". It doesn't even have to directly involve the player doing the taunting, in a case like that, because it can just be "welp, so and so sure seems to think they're a baddass, let's try that on, give them an engraved invitation to the spring, see if they show". You know that. You even like to quote Khizan's post about it, as I remember. His was more focused on actual revenge PK, but the principle is very similar. On that note, it's worth mentioning that I think taunting is almost always, always, always allowed. Because it's an invitation to PK. But you do you.
EDIT: Also, let's go back to your log. You mention this:
"Gotta protect my precious KD ratio, since you can't get credit for the same person more than once every few hours."
This can, by the most technical of technicalities, be considered "IC", yes (but frankly usually only by heathens like... me). You set the tone for that conversation, -you- initiated a shift to OOC, and you don't get to shift all of the blame to the other person there. In other words, stop being a pot if you want to tsk tsk so much about kettles.
I'll respond to this part. Since when does someone have to speak "directly" to another char for their own char to know that that other char is full of itself and by all rights -should- be unable to resist such taunts to come out and fight (thinking so highly of themselves, after all). And of -course- that stuff is player driven. All around. Despite being "IC".
Owyn would, by all accounts, have zero clue as to who Kalynthari even is except for somebody who's fought him at shardfalls, and fought with him (quite successfully) in a team FFA once. Considering there's all of about 5 people I have actually spoken to -- None of which like him barring Galt (I presume Galt does), and every single one of my talks with Galt have been nothing but pleasant thus far both IC and OOC, which I'm sure he can attest to. -- I would happily wager he doesn't know about her from any 'third parties' either.
Half the time it goes "person talks trash in game, but is talking 'OOC' to third parties, and so thinks their char is just an innocent boy scout helping little old ladies across the street".
See above comment. The only thing that can be construed as shittalking that I've done, has been done on my OOC clan that literally only has me, my RL sister and Karne in it.
It doesn't even have to directly involve the player doing the taunting, in a case like that, because it can just be "welp, so and so sure seems to think they're a baddass, let's try that on, give them an engraved invitation to the spring, see if they show". You know that. You even like to quote Khizan's post about it, as I remember. His was more focused on actual revenge PK, but the principle is very similar. On that note, it's worth mentioning that I think taunting is almost always, always, always allowed. Because it's an invitation to PK. But you do you. I've never even spoken about Khizan before, except on Achaea's discord while conversing with him directly, so I'm not really sure where that's coming from. Also I never said taunting wasn't allowed. Take note of the scenario that described said taunting.
EDIT: Also, let's go back to your log. You mention this:
"Gotta protect my precious KD ratio, since you can't get credit for the same person more than once every few hours."
This can, by the most technical of technicalities, be considered "IC", yes (but frankly usually only by heathens like... me). You set the tone for that conversation, -you- initiated a shift to OOC, and you don't get to shift all of the blame to the other person there. In other words, stop being a pot if you want to tsk tsk so much about kettles.
That's not OOC, considering you can check both kills and deaths in-game. Unless you're legitimately going to say using an abbreviation is OOC, in which case there's nothing to discuss there because you would be wrong. There is also, indeed, a timer of 'a few hours' on being able to get credit for killing someone a second/third time, to prevent kill farming.
I think I addressed everything; it's 2am and I'm freezing cold rn.
one eta: I should note the shouting I was referencing, wasn't in that log. It was earlier today.
As a new player, both to IRE and RP in general, I know I have a problem remembering to stay IC. It takes getting used to, but it is also a big part of why I started playing. Thankfully, everyone I talk to is pretty forgiving, and willing to give reminders to keep me on the right track. The harder part of staying IC for me is the lack of sense that any of this makes. As an Antiochian Engineer, I expected the city to be full-on "magick is too dangerous and can destroy your soul and the world". Undead warbears and zombie costumes? A little unexpected. But far more unexpected was the pylon for people to pass through, suspect shards used left and right for rather magickal purposes, or an easy taking-on of Aspects (much less seeing other citizens bash an area full of clerics that, from the lore, sound pretty aligned to Antioch). Before the godsfall this may have all made sense, but now? I also don't understand sects. Anti-Magick is both creepily devoted to the *dead* gods... and trying to worship these new things, at the same time?
Since I'm so new to all this, I can't figure out how to begin RP'ing this and still enjoy the mechanics of the game. For example, hunting is a crucial part of the game. Not exactly RP related, per se, nor really my cup of tea, but mechanically it is an absolute necessity. I don't want to just go full-on magick, or throw RP out with the bath water in order to be a better basher. I'm an Engineer for a reason! But if the other circles are as conflicted as this one, I think RP might need to start with a way to just get the lore in sync with the mechanics and back on track as a whole, and leave pets and promo items for later.
Antiochs RP is as dead as the gods, and Ive given up on trying to fix it. Its why Ive left.
And Swale, please dont presume to explain my own experiences to me and tell me why I left. I "left" Aetolua because I had a bleeding stroke, and Imperian, which hadnt changed as much in the time I was out of commission, was easier to get into. I still have an active Aet character I log into regularly (Evalyne) You dont have to be buddy buddy with anyone in Aet to get the RPK stuff on - and in fact since it usually comes from a place of people wanting to upstage one anothee - the times I fought friends tended to be much less memorable.
Speaking as a complete outsider to the Antioch experience, why not do a "We are the Gods" spin on Antioch's roleplay?
Antioch served the gods in a very hardcore way. The gods kept the world safe and the Diachaim pure from magick. But the gods are dead, and who's left to keep the world safe?
Who else other than Antioch!
It has the potential to be something very new to Imperian. Even Stavenn acknowledged the demons as a separate and greater power (given the right circumstances). Antioch is completely free from that, as the higher powers it served (le gods) are no longer around.
currently tentatively active (may vanish for periods of time)
Antioch sort of -did- do that, and it was kind of awesome (although, I wouldn't say they kept the world safe). Not everyone thought so, of course. They could do it again if they had the (active) firepower, and chose to.
2018/09/11 09:38:16 - Jinshin fulfilled the bounty on Kalynthari.
honours jinshin ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Jinshin (Male Sidhe) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ He is 169 years old, having been born on the 7th of Aequitas, 3 AM. He is not a member of a bloodline. He is unranked in Imperian. He has earned 21 Achievement Points. He is ranked 4320th in Achievements. He is the 6976th ranked arena combatant with 0 wins. He is a Denizen in Kinsarmar. He is a Drifter in the Fellowship of Explorers. He is considered to be approximately 0% of your might. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Name: Jinshin Full name: Jinshin City: Kinsarmar Guild: (none) Towne: (none) Level: 53 Bashing level: 50 Questing level: 28 Achievement points: 21 Pk level: 18 Xp rank: 0 Description: He is a strong sidhe. He is of average height for one of his race, standing a little over six feet. His skin is rough, of a pale grey colour. His eyes are a shade of green and blue, similar to the blue sea, barely visible under a length of hair which covers his forehead. His face portrays a calm expression, with a small smile across his lips. Overall, there is nothing particularly unusual about the appearance of this person. Profession: Druid Player kills: 1 Deaths: 0 Arena rank: 6976 Pvp rank: 0
Man... usually, people know they sort of have to try to keep up some sort of "appearances" when they ride that high horse around because it's a long, long way down. But it's REALLY funny when they just... don't. I ain't even mad.
Deleted a series of posts discussing issues. Don't discuss issues on the forums.
Also, let's try to be civil and not devolve into personal attacks.
Hoi! My last post was fine!
I'll say it again, since it wasn't actually in response to the string of posts... I really dislike when people jump to OOC responses/snark, because something is said/done that they don't agree with, and would rather not resolve it ICly... Although it isn't entirely exclusive to Imperian, it's highly annoying nonetheless since it pretty much instantly ruins any form of RP that may or may not have happened as a result. And so far it's been the case for Kaly 90% of the time when dealing with people not of her own Circle. Kinda makes me increasingly reluctant to interact with people outside of it, which sucks.
This thread is massively off topic (seriously, look at the posts on this page then at the first post in the thread) so I'm going to go ahead and close it.
Comments
PK is so completely IC and OOC at the same time. I don't know if there is anything else that people get so emotionally invested in, living (and dying) through their character and certainly playing a sort of "role" there. In a sense it's one of the ultimate roles in the game. Because of that, it is also VERY much the player experiencing all of that.
It's one of the reasons a lot of big PK-ers enjoy trash-talking so much, too. It's part of the role. But I would definitely say that any "RP" that does happen around any reasonably hotly contested fight is the thinnest of veneers for like... 98% player sass/butthurt/insults to your mother.
If there's a chronic problem, and we're made aware of it, then we'll probably speak with (and possibly punish) the person or people in question.
The thing about PK is that it's very much players competing against other players. It really is. It has other aspects that are more IC, but you can't really avoid that part. So even if people maintain that razor thin veneer of IC-ness when they taunt/berate/insult your mother's choice of profession, it is almost always veneer, and nothing more than that, so I would definitely consider it "OOC" in that sense - period. I used to get so confused when I would watch people "RP" being horribly, horribly toxic to each other "IC" in one IRE, and I was like... is that RP, or is that real? And the game's veterans said "oh, it's very real, they hate each other". And well, I guess, DUH. In that case, it wasn't PK, but another hotly contested game activity - politics. And that's when it started to click for me, "mean" RP is almost always, always, always very much OOC. Always. So in a way, I actually appreciate it when they just go "you suck, no YOU suck", because I know that's what's up anyway (I am still probably not replying either way though).
EDIT: basically, without commenting on what "should" or "shouldn't" be done by admin or whatever, I personally find it hard to get super duper outraged about the mere fact of people going "OOC" surrounding PK.
Half the time it goes "person talks trash in game, but is talking 'OOC' to third parties, and so thinks their char is just an innocent boy scout helping little old ladies across the street". It doesn't even have to directly involve the player doing the taunting, in a case like that, because it can just be "welp, so and so sure seems to think they're a baddass, let's try that on, give them an engraved invitation to the spring, see if they show". You know that. You even like to quote Khizan's post about it, as I remember. His was more focused on actual revenge PK, but the principle is very similar. On that note, it's worth mentioning that I think taunting is almost always, always, always allowed. Because it's an invitation to PK. But you do you.
EDIT: Also, let's go back to your log. You mention this:
"Gotta protect my precious KD ratio, since you can't get credit for the same person more than once every few hours."
This can, by the most technical of technicalities, be considered "IC", yes (but frankly usually only by heathens like... me). You set the tone for that conversation, -you- initiated a shift to OOC, and you don't get to shift all of the blame to the other person there. In other words, stop being a pot if you want to tsk tsk so much about kettles.
Since I'm so new to all this, I can't figure out how to begin RP'ing this and still enjoy the mechanics of the game. For example, hunting is a crucial part of the game. Not exactly RP related, per se, nor really my cup of tea, but mechanically it is an absolute necessity. I don't want to just go full-on magick, or throw RP out with the bath water in order to be a better basher. I'm an Engineer for a reason! But if the other circles are as conflicted as this one, I think RP might need to start with a way to just get the lore in sync with the mechanics and back on track as a whole, and leave pets and promo items for later.
Antioch served the gods in a very hardcore way. The gods kept the world safe and the Diachaim pure from magick. But the gods are dead, and who's left to keep the world safe?
Who else other than Antioch!
It has the potential to be something very new to Imperian. Even Stavenn acknowledged the demons as a separate and greater power (given the right circumstances). Antioch is completely free from that, as the higher powers it served (le gods) are no longer around.
(may vanish for periods of time)
honours jinshin
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jinshin (Male Sidhe)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
He is 169 years old, having been born on the 7th of Aequitas, 3 AM.
He is not a member of a bloodline.
He is unranked in Imperian.
He has earned 21 Achievement Points.
He is ranked 4320th in Achievements.
He is the 6976th ranked arena combatant with 0 wins.
He is a Denizen in Kinsarmar.
He is a Drifter in the Fellowship of Explorers.
He is considered to be approximately 0% of your might.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Name: Jinshin
Full name: Jinshin
City: Kinsarmar
Guild: (none)
Towne: (none)
Level: 53
Bashing level: 50
Questing level: 28
Achievement points: 21
Pk level: 18
Xp rank: 0
Description: He is a strong sidhe. He is of average height for one of his race, standing a little over six feet. His skin is rough, of a pale grey colour. His eyes are a shade of green and blue, similar to the blue sea, barely visible under a length of hair which covers his forehead. His face portrays a calm expression, with a small smile across his lips. Overall, there is nothing particularly unusual about the appearance of this person.
Profession: Druid
Player kills: 1
Deaths: 0
Arena rank: 6976
Pvp rank: 0
Man... usually, people know they sort of have to try to keep up some sort of "appearances" when they ride that high horse around because it's a long, long way down. But it's REALLY funny when they just... don't. I ain't even mad.
Also, let's try to be civil and not devolve into personal attacks.