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Improving Imperian Combat

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  • Khizan said:
    I'm pretty sure that she's just saying that she gets all wrongfooted every time she switches profession and that she's split across so many classes that she's not really comfortable with most of them.
    Seems like something that can be addressed easily by improving yourself by getting acquainted with your professions rather than suggesting that they alter multiclassing.
  • Luckily, this game probably has me for good, so yeah, I should be able to get there eventually.

    But you ideally want a game like this to be really, really playable for people at your level, and also for the guy who just finally got kind of decent team derping in one prof.

    Right now, it can be really important for us to be able to switch up team composition, and it always seems to be driven by "we need x, and only prof blah has x".  So at that moment, multiclass is no longer a luxury to prevent player boredom, it just became something we need. 
  • edited July 2016
    Kaistrike needs to be changed or removed. This cannot wait until the monk revamp.


    My suggestion is that Kaistrike increases limbdamage by 1/3rd of the limb damage threshold.
  • "My suggestion is that KaiStrike burns Kai and 3.6 seconds of equilibrium to do less limb damage than a taekate combo"

    "On the battlefield I am a god. I love war. The steel, the smell, the corpses. I wish there were more. On the first day I drove the Northmen back alone at the ford. Alone! On the second I carried the bridge! Me! Yesterday I climbed the Heroes! I love war! I… I wish it wasn’t over."

  • edited July 2016
    Unlike a taekate combo, it bypasses parry, reflections, prismatic and shield.

    and your statement is wrong. It would still be more than a taekate combo.
  • I mean. It kind of has to wait for classleads or the revamp, because kaistrike is the only thing allowing monks to kill competent people one v one (and barely, at that).

    Not much sympathy for that particular case, you basically sat there for going on 15 seconds before deciding to tumble (at which point, tumbling was a death sentence even if you'd fixed your legs).

  • It does not go through prismatic or shield.

    And a single Taekate combo can take me from zero limb damage to trembling with a bit left over on top of that, so that's more than a third of the limb threshold

    "On the battlefield I am a god. I love war. The steel, the smell, the corpses. I wish there were more. On the first day I drove the Northmen back alone at the ford. Alone! On the second I carried the bridge! Me! Yesterday I climbed the Heroes! I love war! I… I wish it wasn’t over."

  • Tumbling doesn't save you as there is more than enough time to brazier and reapplying kaistrike, and being hit with one kai cripple/kaistrike or prone/stun, kaistrike immediately removes the ability to do anything to stop kai-strike. 

    Keep defending something worse than vodun mangle. 
  • I'm not defending it, I'm saying that your suggestion was "please make this ability literally worthless k thanks"

    "On the battlefield I am a god. I love war. The steel, the smell, the corpses. I wish there were more. On the first day I drove the Northmen back alone at the ford. Alone! On the second I carried the bridge! Me! Yesterday I climbed the Heroes! I love war! I… I wish it wasn’t over."

  • Noone is defending kaistrike. You're advocating making the ability that allows monk to be playable in a solo setting not fulfill said necessary function. I'm saying that's something that needs to wait for a classlead, because the implications for the class as a whole are non trivial and the last thing am needs at the present is another toothless limb damage profession.

    As for the brazier statement, tumble at any point in that chain before the incendiary fired would've saved you. Feel free to do the math if you don't believe me.

  • It'd still be worth using because it bypasses parry. In any case the suggestion was just to get the ball rolling. You are welcome to make your own.
  • To be honest, I don't have one, because I frankly don't think the monk classes current paradigm is workable in imperian's combat model. There is very little ground between "I can definitely kill this person" and "I can't kill this person". You'd need to alter the bal times quite substantially on monk to make it work without kaistrike, and arguably it'd leave it in an even more miserable position than it currently is.
  • Iluv said:
    Tumbling doesn't save you as there is more than enough time to brazier and reapplying kaistrike, and being hit with one kai cripple/kaistrike or prone/stun, kaistrike immediately removes the ability to do anything to stop kai-strike. 

    Keep defending something worse than vodun mangle. 
    I mean, I love hyperbole as much as the next man, but Kai Strike has nothing on Vodun.
  • His argument is going to be that Kai Strike is instant and Vodun took prep time. 

    He's not going to mention the part where you could prep once and then use that prep all week.

    "On the battlefield I am a god. I love war. The steel, the smell, the corpses. I wish there were more. On the first day I drove the Northmen back alone at the ford. Alone! On the second I carried the bridge! Me! Yesterday I climbed the Heroes! I love war! I… I wish it wasn’t over."

  • Septus said:
    To be honest, I don't have one, because I frankly don't think the monk classes current paradigm is workable in imperian's combat model. There is very little ground between "I can definitely kill this person" and "I can't kill this person". You'd need to alter the bal times quite substantially on monk to make it work without kaistrike, and arguably it'd leave it in an even more miserable position than it currently is.
    Revert BBT speed back to fast so that a kai-immolated, jpk double break guarantees the third bbt.

    And Vodun also required illwill which can't be pre-charged.
  • Iluv said:

    And Vodun also required illwill which can't be pre-charged.
    Ill-will was a very late construct in the lifespan of Vodun.
  • edited July 2016
    We have quite a few top players who are standing "demogick" teams at this point.  So highly skilled players using the very best of what magick and demonic abilities have to offer.  It's been going on for a while now though, and this is just the current iteration of it.  Is there any chance of just consolidating magick and demonic (and balancing all of their classes as a single circle), with AM being the adversary for that joint circle?  I think we're already there in every way but the mechanics.
  • The game is cyclic, things like this don't last forever.
  • edited July 2016
    Juran, I bet we actually might have avoided this current cycle if you were still here.  At least, I think there might have been a good chance of it.  Because you + Iluv = strong leadership core for magick.  But you aren't.  It's cyclical but it happens a lot, and lasts a good while when it does. 

    And like... these are not casual pick up teams getting together because they don't have enough derps that day.  These are teams that have real synergy and have put time and effort into working as a demonic/magick team (certainly core team members seem to).  
  • Do you believe in magick? With demons too. 

  • Could we change the Wand of Reflections up a bit? Maybe give it 3 charges and make the charges recharge after a minute or so?

    Right now reflecting yourself has a 1.9s eq and it doesn't take any eq when you already have a reflection up, which makes it incredibly easy to spam reflections to the point of immunity against several classes. You can avoid half of every DSL forever. Avoid every Summoner spell. Avoid almost every Outrider stab. Avoid every druid quarterstaff stab. You can't hinder them to prevent the reflections because reflections are eating your hinder attempts, and you can't get any momentum towards a kill on them because reflections are eating it.

    It is getting ridiculous. It's a 200cr artifact that lets you turtle forever.

    "On the battlefield I am a god. I love war. The steel, the smell, the corpses. I wish there were more. On the first day I drove the Northmen back alone at the ford. Alone! On the second I carried the bridge! Me! Yesterday I climbed the Heroes! I love war! I… I wish it wasn’t over."

  • The prone affliction is the only one I know of that has three different diagnose messages depending on the "type" of prone that you are. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but nothing comes to mind at all combat-wise that depends on the "type" of prone your opponent is (sitting, sprawled, lying.) I think that getting rid of 2 of the 3 or getting rid of all 3 and making one generic prone diag for all prone scenarios would be nice.
  • edited June 2017
    Have you checked using diag blah unified?

    E: I hate that hypnosis analyse's aff scan can't use unified D:
  • @Gjarrus I have not, no. The reasoning behind my suggestion is because of another diagnose-type skill that you cannot make to use unified. :/
  • Is there a reason these abilities can't use unified that I'm unaware of?  Or, was it just oversight when it was added?
    image
  • @Anette because they aren't diagnose... I think though you're missing the point. The point is that prone has 3 separate messages in diagnose and other diagnose-like skills. Nothing else does; it shouldn't either. Is it easy to code around? Yes. Should anyone have to? Not for any good reason, no.
  • edited June 2017
    I would say it is more likely oversight, since it should be a slight tweak to the code and it's a QoL thing. I actually forgot to bug analyse til just now, apparently, so I can't say for certain.
  • It was not a bug per se, but I see no reason not to add it. You may now ANALYSE <target> AFFLICTIONS UNIFIED.
    Like what we're doing? Why not take a second to vote? Vote for Imperian at http://www.imperian.com/vote
  • Eoghan said:
    It was not a bug per se, but I see no reason not to add it. You may now ANALYSE <target> AFFLICTIONS UNIFIED.
    Cool. Now do that with ASSESS in shamanism? :dizzy:
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