I don't get how Ahkan says it doesn't cost anything - redemption 'costs' the ability to be somewhat reckless with devotion skills as near as I can see. If you use too many of them it won't fire for you. A behavioural 'cost' is far more impactful then inks/gold or a momentary loss of a tattoo slot.
Without beads I'd be using starburst. It's too close otherwise.
I'm not so much arguing hard to keep it as I am trying to figure out what exactly about the skill is broken? Pretend we did remove it, what does it really accomplish? I think what I would really like to see (and maybe I will do it if I stop being lazy) is all the knights and what they are capable of side by side.
I know RG can get a lot of similar things Templar has and in some cases more, just in a different form. +resist (algiz, gebu, gebo), passive healing (uruz, berkana), +con with +str or +int (jera or iora), escape (raido) then some good group stuff like canopy, vortex and totems. Plus they can hinder with transfix, and have poor mans shadowplant. They can also deal out good damage without the 6 dsl limit like flaring has.
The only reason I bring any of that up is it seems like a lot of energy is spent thrashing against AM professions (maybe for good reason, maybe not. I dunno). I've said it before, and I will say it again, I am all for fixing game balance. If a profession I am playing (or any other) needs nerfed then let's nerf it. If it needs adjusted, lets adjust it. But these kinds of decisions should be made with all the facts, and not just "This class is too good, they can do damage, afflictions, and are tanky". All I ever really want out of my comments is what is the real issue, why is it an issue, how does it compare to other similar classes (if there are any), and how can it be fixed. These kinds of answers seem hard to come by, and instead general blanket statements are made that in my opinion don't answer any of the important questions.
I'm not here trying to misdirect anyone, just trying to understand the root of the issue. But sort of along those lines, once you have reconstruct Woodheart no longer kills you. At least that's what the Ab says. I think the better question here is why does Woodheart have a 1h cool down?
Templar is tanky, but you have to take into account that several of us have tanking artifacts. I would like to see some comparisons, but I would think Runeguard has more tank than Templar, and more tools for afflictions.
As an aside, I personally, am not above devotion changes. I would actually like more mobility and not have to drag rites around (mostly because I am lazy). Though I think making changes to any knight profession right now would be premature considering they are getting ready to undergo a revamp.
Totally unrelated to Templar, but something I have been thinking about; I would be curious what you (Ahkan) would have to say if any AM profession had a no-balance prone ability?
Disclaimer: I have probably missed certain things out since I wrote this in a ten minute break. Feel free to correct any mistakes/inaccuracies. The best/worst are obviously just my opinions. I've not included things from outside of class skills.
Passive regen: Dk: n/a Rg: Berkana, uruz (must be sketched in room) Templar: revit Best: probably rg, maybe templar (not sure on rg regen numbers) Worst: dk
Passive healing: Dk: n/a Rg: n/a Templar: rite of healing, bliss (not as practical for teams, but good for the initial few rounds) Best: templar Worst: not templar
Active heals: Dk: vigour, rage, fitness Rg: rage, fitness Templar: hands, rage, fitness Best: I'd give this to dk, but I'm not sure how much vigour heals. Might be templar. Vigour might also be slower, in which case the benefit of being able to do it hindered isn't enough to put it above hands. Worst: rg
Aff support: Dk: passive healing block Rg: flares Templar: penance Best: rg, hands down Worst: not sure, both of these are pretty sweet. Templar is more applicable to everyone though, dk is better against a subset of matchups and generally only in one v one.
Instakills (not really applicable to teams usually): Dk: cleave, vivisect, super dsb Rg: cleave, super dsb Templar: cleave, super dsb Best: dk Worst: rg (I can rite of healing cleave you for much rage)
Damage: Dk: soulquench, soulstorm Rg: sowulu, various flares Templar: cleansing, emblazing, flare, inspiration Best (burst): templar Best (sustained): rg, if they get opportunity to use the flares which slow healing (pith/nauthiz) Best (stacked): toss up between templar and dk. I'd give it to templar but the flare icd might swing it the other way. On the other hand templar gets 2 str for free, so its probably templar. Worst: no idea really Note: rg does require some degree of knowing what you're doing to be efficient, the other two you can arguably roll in with one alias and be pro.
Active team support: Dk: defend, soulsense (... maybe? bit of a stretch), engage, soulspear Rg: vortex, canopy, defend, totems, engage Templar: defend, hands, deliver, rez, engage Best: for utility its rg, for hair pulling frustration its templar. Worst: dk
Passive team support: Dk: gravehands Rg: uruz, laguz Templar: revit, healing, seance (situationally), warding, piety Best: templar, no contest here really Worst: dk
Basically, if you're decent, rg is badass for both teams and one v one. Dk is held back by vivisect and is a decent one v one class. Templar is a teams machine and very potent one v one. I personally prefer templar for teams compared to rg just because of the active health heal (this is a huge deal) and prefer rg for one v one (because its hilarious and will make people cry).
Runelore provides Jera for +1 STR and +1 CON, Algiz for 10% Resist All, Berkana is L2 Racial HP Regen, Gebo and Gebu are 7% cutting and 7% blunt added to armour's stats. Etchings on armour are 10% fire, 10% cold, or 10% electrical. Uruz is roughly 6% every 6 seconds(I think applies to allies list and self only), but I only get 2 ground rit...runes. I tend to go Laguz and Lagul(even though it doesn't actually stop the one person that regularly flies(I hate the flying mount bug)) or Laguz and Uruz in team situations.
Flares: Eihwaz(rebounding block) is roughly 13s, Wunjo(procs ground rune) is roughly 9s. Pithakhan(halves next two sips) is roughly 22s. Nauthiz(blocks next toadstool) is roughly 22s. Nairat/Loshre(block a mental or physical cure of a specified type once) are on a shared 22s cooldown. Hugalaz(shield block) is on a roughly 22s cooldown. Kena(hallucinations) is roughly 9s cooldown as well. In Fast with a Diadem. 225 sabre, which is the speed for a light sabre post smithing changes, unless things change in beta, is 2.16s bal. 2.06 on rebounding only rsl. Flaring is 2.75s eq. If you flare Mannaz, your next two flares are 1.9s and have a shorter delay(1s instead of 2s) if they're delayed(wunjo, nairat, loshre, fehu(sleep)).
As far as affliction speed goes: You have access to eihwaz which blocks rebounding once after use, with a 13s cooldown. It's cool, but the eq cost of using flares at all offsets that bonus a little. You have access to loshre/nairat, which being used in the easiest way are a single herb(or purge or focus or tree or active or passive) block every 22 seconds of a random aff. It's definitely no shadowplant, but it's not useless either. You can attempt to use fehu, but hallucinations every 9s will just get focused away. You can forgo nairat on the ground in 1v1 and instead go with inguz for numbness, but that's numbness once every 9s at the cost of losing access to transfix and having to use a (generally) slower method of transitioning to disembowel.
Using transfix for disembowel is suboptimal anyway (because if you use a battlecry method, it reduces the time they have in which to continue curing due to the stun). Given access to flare inguz, there's no reason to not use the battlecry impale, really.
As far as why Redemption should change in some manner, it's not that it's super OP or anything, it's that the ignoring PK consequences effect is just stupid. I accepted an assassination job knowing I'd probably not be able to collect it because someone thought releasing flip boots to the general public was a good idea(or really liked the idea of selling a few $500 artifacts. 20 minutes, 3 kills, and 2 deaths later I still hadn't collected the hit on Ultrix because I couldn't hold her well enough to kill her fast enough to keep her from just reupping redemption between kills. Giving two classes the ability to nullify a pk death every 4 minutes just makes absolutely no sense.
2015/01/12 12:15:25 - Ultrix has been slain by Baasche.
2015/01/12 12:21:38 - Baasche has been slain by Ultrix.
2015/01/12 12:23:58 - Baasche has been slain by Ultrix.
2015/01/12 12:28:44 - Ultrix has been slain by Baasche.
2015/01/12 12:34:03 - Ultrix has been slain by Baasche.
Runelore provides Jera for +1 STR and +1 CON, Algiz for 10% Resist All, Berkana is L2 Racial HP Regen, Gebo and Gebu are 7% cutting and 7% blunt added to armour's stats. Etchings on armour are 10% fire, 10% cold, or 10% electrical. Uruz is roughly 6% every 6 seconds(I think applies to allies list and self only), but I only get 2 ground rit...runes. I tend to go Laguz and Lagul(even though it doesn't actually stop the one person that regularly flies(I hate the flying mount bug)) or Laguz and Uruz in team situations.
I thought this changed to L1 after Runemaster changes?
edit: If I remember correctly, I think Berkana is included in the L3 HP regen cap rather than added on top of whatever artifact regen, etc. you have; however, Uruz would proc on top. @Garryn: confirm?
From testing, Uruz is on a completely different timer. Boar, Berkana, and L2 Regen rings gave 5% per 10s individually. Berkana + L2 Regen rings hit cap at 7.5% per 10s. That would make Berkana an L2, since we know cap is at L3. Boar is the same as L2, 5% per 10s, and procs on the same timer, but doesn't count towards the L3 limit.
As far as why Redemption should change in some manner, it's not that it's super OP or anything, it's that the ignoring PK consequences effect is just stupid. I accepted an assassination job knowing I'd probably not be able to collect it because someone thought releasing flip boots to the general public was a good idea(or really liked the idea of selling a few $500 artifacts. 20 minutes, 3 kills, and 2 deaths later I still hadn't collected the hit on Ultrix because I couldn't hold her well enough to kill her fast enough to keep her from just reupping redemption between kills. Giving two classes the ability to nullify a pk death every 4 minutes just makes absolutely no sense.
2015/01/12 12:15:25 - Ultrix has been slain by Baasche.
2015/01/12 12:21:38 - Baasche has been slain by Ultrix.
2015/01/12 12:23:58 - Baasche has been slain by Ultrix.
2015/01/12 12:28:44 - Ultrix has been slain by Baasche.
2015/01/12 12:34:03 - Ultrix has been slain by Baasche.
I may be totally wrong here, but I don't feel like this has been the reason behind the suggestions to change Redemption up to this point. It has been that Priest/Templar are OP, too tanky and doesn't need revive.
@Dicene I have always admired your data collection, and I almost mentioned you for numbers, but I didn't want to put you on the spot. If I am being used as the base line for Templar tankiness (I don't know if I am) that is a bad idea. Almost all my artifacts up to this point have been focused around survival.
I didn't know Runeguard got two ground runes now. Sort of makes sense because you wear most of your Runes. I would love to wear rites, I'd love it so much I would be okay for limiting the number or rites allowed in a room. DISCLAIMER - I am sure I don't speak for everyone here.
As far as why Redemption should change in some manner, it's not that it's super OP or anything, it's that the ignoring PK consequences effect is just stupid. I accepted an assassination job knowing I'd probably not be able to collect it because someone thought releasing flip boots to the general public was a good idea(or really liked the idea of selling a few $500 artifacts. 20 minutes, 3 kills, and 2 deaths later I still hadn't collected the hit on Ultrix because I couldn't hold her well enough to kill her fast enough to keep her from just reupping redemption between kills. Giving two classes the ability to nullify a pk death every 4 minutes just makes absolutely no sense.
2015/01/12 12:15:25 - Ultrix has been slain by Baasche.
2015/01/12 12:21:38 - Baasche has been slain by Ultrix.
2015/01/12 12:23:58 - Baasche has been slain by Ultrix.
2015/01/12 12:28:44 - Ultrix has been slain by Baasche.
2015/01/12 12:34:03 - Ultrix has been slain by Baasche.
If something like that displays on deathsight it should really count for the hit.
Yeah, I intentionally left out animate since I assumed everyone would roll with +soulquench.
Right, but I didn't see the increased proc noted either, although I don't know the specific numbers on it to know if that's really pertinent or not.
I haven't tested since the changes to soulquench were first rolled out, but if nothing has changed, it's pretty much required to use the +soulquench animate form if you intend on using soulquench at all. Without it, it doesn't seem to proc with enough regularity to contribute much of anything.
Redemption is dumb in class for a number of reasons. Firstly, it absolutely forces everyone else to play the revive in combat game. No exceptions. The problem is, this is the kind of game that AM really REALLY excels at. It forces a DPS race, and it does so against two classes with access to some really ridiculous tank ability. What Septus forgot to note in his comparison is bloodsworn and how stupidly high it can push health on two of the already most tanky classes in the game, and to my knowledge one of the perks of having devotion considered IN the skillset itself is that neat things like bloodsworn and all your passive healing do not drop on death and you can keep on swinging. Even with the lip service paid to starburst this classlead round, I still lose regrowth, recuperation, and antibodies when starburst flares.
The two minute restriction is meaningless, as is the 1500 devotion. Everyone else ends up with a fair amount of gold buy-in and one less tattoo slot in order to compete.
Not sure what else happened here but @Icarius Linslet answered your question.
@Septus The death of vivisect is the high point of classleads. I was so excited when they announced it's going to be reworked or killed. Imo, it's been holding DK back for years.
Redemption is dumb in class for a number of reasons. Firstly, it absolutely forces everyone else to play the revive in combat game. No exceptions. The problem is, this is the kind of game that AM really REALLY excels at. It forces a DPS race, and it does so against two classes with access to some really ridiculous tank ability. What Septus forgot to note in his comparison is bloodsworn and how stupidly high it can push health on two of the already most tanky classes in the game, and to my knowledge one of the perks of having devotion considered IN the skillset itself is that neat things like bloodsworn and all your passive healing do not drop on death and you can keep on swinging. Even with the lip service paid to starburst this classlead round, I still lose regrowth, recuperation, and antibodies when starburst flares.
The two minute restriction is meaningless, as is the 1500 devotion. Everyone else ends up with a fair amount of gold buy-in and one less tattoo slot in order to compete.
Nobody uses bloodsworn. I'm guessing that's why Septus didn't mention it. The risk is too high, if you kill one you kill two.
I agree with the gold loss, but you don't have to lose a tattoo slot. You lose a tattoo slot to save an extra 120 gold and the time cost of inking a new cloak. I mean, unless you need to be able to hit startburst/ touch starburst.
Edit: [7] The following effects are no longer removed on a starburst or a similar instant revival: Gravehands, Thespia songs, Devotion rites, personal wormholes, Desecration Blackvines and Bloodrain, Naturebinding roots, Malignosis demons, Hunting animals, Enslavery demons, Putrefaction, and Wardance. All these are still removed on a real death.
@Ahkan, I think the conversation already meandered over to where you were actually trying to go, but I think people (including Edmund, and really, me) took your initial comments literally, and those comments really did seem to be more focused on redemption as "the" solution. On that note, Dicene brings up an interesting point on the weirdness of redemption not triggering a "kill" - is it the only ability in the game that does that?
So, you seemed to be saying that all that other stuff would be... acceptable if redemption were changed. But you actually seem to want something more/different than that. In other words, you *do* want all/some of that other stuff you mentioned changed. Anyway, this is all above my paygrade, but I just wanted to say that I don't think people were willfully dodging the question there.
Even with the lip service paid to starburst this classlead round, I still lose regrowth, recuperation, and antibodies when starburst flares.
Have you tried something like maybe... messaging Garryn and asking him about this? He left outrider animals out of that fix and when I messaged him about it I got a "Oh yeah, missed those. In now" about a minute later.
"On the battlefield I am a god. I love war. The steel, the smell, the corpses. I wish there were more. On the first day I drove the Northmen back alone at the ford. Alone! On the second I carried the bridge! Me! Yesterday I climbed the Heroes! I love war! I… I wish it wasn’t over."
Not sure what else happened here but @Icarius Linslet answered your question.
@Septus The death of vivisect is the high point of classleads. I was so excited when they announced it's going to be reworked or killed. Imo, it's been holding DK back for years.
Not really, she never said why the 1500 devotion limit is meaningless. Remove my beads, put down full rites and penance myself, boom. Below 1500 devotion.
Honestly, (imho) Redemption hurts AM - it marginalises Predator, Wardancer, Monk and to a lesser extent, Outrider. If those classes didn't have vitality/refresh body/bladesurge, it'd be even worse. Because Devotion is so good, no new players really pick up your other classes, so no one really invests time into trying to fix the Predator/Wardancer/Monk newbie experience.
E: (I you @Wysrias, thanks for fixing diabolist/wytch)
Not sure what else happened here but @Icarius Linslet answered your question.
@Septus The death of vivisect is the high point of classleads. I was so excited when they announced it's going to be reworked or killed. Imo, it's been holding DK back for years.
I think I have done a poor job at conveying my thoughts here. I was sort of using the forums like I would at work in conveying and discussing ideas, but I have a different audience there. Let me try to layout my thoughts here in a more concise way. If I am totally of base in how I am thinking about this let me know, and let me know the proper way I should be trying to look at class balance. It seems from the forums, change logs and experience that professions get looked at in a vacuum, and the opinions of the players typically remind me of this demotivator
Just as an over arching note when reading any of my posts about skills or professions or whatever, I am not opposed to change. If something is wrong I think we should fix it. Professions and their skills are part of the complex system that is Imperian combat, and that system is hard to get just right. That being said, I think it is important when looking at a profession or any group of skills to not think about them in a vacuum, and instead actually measure them up to other professions that are similar (if they exist) and what the current goal is for the profession and how well or poorly they are fulfilling it.
If I am wrong here let me know, but this is what I have heard so far:
Templar / Priest needs changed
burst damage
burst affliction
passive healing (health/mana)
active healing (health)
passive healing (affliction)
resist buffs
access to revive
First I think we should separate the two, because they are professions that work differently and serve different purposes. So when thinking about changes we're not really going to gain anything thinking about them together. I will focus mostly on Templar here because it is what I play the most, and what I have had in mind when making my earlier comments. If Devotion in general is the problem then I think that could be a topic for another conversation.
The initial post that started this was one suggesting that Redemption needed to be looked at in beta because it was a problem. Then it has been brought up a couple of times Templar having access to a revive mechanic is a problem. This is why I brought up Starburst, even without Redemption Templar has access to a revive mechanic. That started me down my line of questions comparing Redemption to Starburst. As far as I can tell Starburst is the same except for a gold cost and the fact I can use my Devotion more freely during a fight. So what is it about Redemption that is the problem?
The answers (let me know if I missed anything):
No gold cost
The devotion cost is meaningless
The timer is meaningless
The fact you can't reapply in dis is meaningless
Affords Devotion users an extra tattoo slot
Most people in AM wouldn't have access to a revive mechanic without it
It forces everyone else to run with a Starburst
I don't feel like any of these reasons really answer the question on how Redemption itself is game breaking. What it has done is forced a meta where everyone is running around with two lives. I feel like this is annoying for everyone, @Ahkan you're not made of paper mache, so having to kill you twice is no walk in the park.
Earlier on the Redemption topic I suggested making Redemption cost some consumed item that cost about as much as Starburst instead of the Devotion cost and cooldown (which are meaningless anyway), but this idea seemed to be ignored.
In response to it eating a tattoo slot I pointed out you could wipe cloak - ink starburst - touch starburst - ink cloak and not have to lose a tattoos slot at the expense of 120 gold in blue ink and the time to ink a tattoo. The only reason this wouldn't work is if people are inking starburst - touch starburst - ink starburst letting them hit starburst and then touch it again with having to reink. If this is the case it is just another argument for why Starburst is better.
After some additional comments I'm getting the impression that the real problem is the revive mechanic in PVP. Maybe we should consider just removing it from PVP, or in general?
The next item was that Templar is the most tanky profession in the game. Okay, Templars are great tanks, there is no arguing that. A few initial thoughts I had were:
Are they really the most tanky profession?
What is being used as a base line for an average amount of tank?
What Templars are being thought about when drawing this conclusion?
How do they compare to other similar profession?
I don't know if I am, but if I am being used as a base line for Templar that's probably a bad choice. The only reason I think might be is that I was used in an example as a 500h with burst damage, afflictions and revival. While this is true, without my artifacts I have 363 health (fast). The only thing the Templar profession is going to offer me in terms of health is weathering. I also have other tanking artifacts so I'm probably not what should be used as a baseline Templar. Same goes for Ultrix or Iroth as a base line for Priest. I mean, let's give our wallets a little credit in our survivability.
Templar does get resists, but how are they effecting the profession when looking at an unartifacted Templar? Are they still getting too much from the profession? Maybe, I'm not sure I haven't looked at it. @Linslet brought up Bloodsworn, which yeah, can push some limits. No one uses it though. The risk of dropping to 1h if your buddy dies is too great. I'm all for repurposing this into something people will actually use.
What @Septus was responding to was my question about comparing Templar to the other knight professions (knights actually sort of have it easy here because each circle has one) and he gave a fairly comprehensive list for each knight. What I learned from it is Templar and Runeguard seem like they are on pretty equal footing as far as buffs and the like. One of the main boons to Templar is the active healing. While Runeguard get's more mobility, extra con, some different utility and a more reliable escape method. Deathknight seems to be in a sad place, but with the removal of vivisect and the new changes they should be getting some love.
Templar does have good burst damage, each one can have about 6 dsl/flare combos before needing to rerite. The flares have a cooldown for each target so we can't try and all flare at once for a massive burst. Claymores are a problem but weapons are changing so we shouldn't really consider these when looking at the profession today. Other than that I'm not sure what else is in the toolbox?
Burst afflictions, I'm not really sure where this is happening in team combat. We do have Penance which is great if you can stick it, and is usually only used in 1v1. If a Templar is running around in a group fight with a sabre they are going to get funny looks. Other than that I don't know what else we have for burst afflictions, maybe I'm just bad I dunno.
With all that said I'd love to hear some thoughts about what the problems actually are instead of arbitrary comments that are posted directly after losing at a caravan. Things like "whatever is meaningless", or "this profession has too much X" don't do anything but express an opinion about something. We should not be trying to change professions based on opinions. I would think that's how you end up with professions like WD or whatever other profession is broken. I would hope we could come here and talk about skills and professions using real examples and looking at the system as a whole then as a group come up with some good ideas for changes. Maybe it's just a pipe dream.
I used redemption as a springboard into the topic of "Why devotion so good." You guys made arguments on "Why we should keep redemption" while I provoked you. The only really topic I cared about was the redemption cooldown and it's trivial cost (which Icarius is still having trouble grasping). Other skills (woodheart) have hour long cds. Why is redemption's only 120 seconds? No one has addressed this.
No one (aside from Septus, the champion he is) has addressed why devotion is so damn good. Cleric and Templar roll in solid #1 contenders for resists, passives, actives. They also check in rather high on the offensive chart. This is out of sync with the way the rest of the world was balanced where strong offense = weak defense. Why is that devo is strong offense = strong defense = strong utility?
To be fair, some of this should (hopefully) be resolved when we undo the terribad of last classleads where we tried to downgrade claymores and made them better (oops?). That's a step in the right direction, but you're still looking at cleansing/axes/flare and cleric shenanigans, so it's not too big of an offensive step back to justify the cornucopia of tank.
What the argument forced people to do is admit that:
-Redemption is badass and you want to keep it
-Your classes are so tanky its retarded and you want to keep it
-Your classes are offensive power houses at low investments. You want to keep it.
-The cost is effectively nil because 2m = 100% devotion. You like this.
I wish I could draw a confused arrow here because here's the disconnect:
You want to nerf my damage and my tank because it's hard to kill me (Wys and I are at a level of investment, play style, skill, that it's not just the class that makes us hard to kill. You are not.)
Comments
Ok, why not.
Disclaimer: I have probably missed certain things out since I wrote this in a ten minute break. Feel free to correct any mistakes/inaccuracies. The best/worst are obviously just my opinions. I've not included things from outside of class skills.
Mitigation:
Dk: putrefaction, fullplate (+chilled)
Rg: Algiz, fullplate (+gebo/gebu/etchings)
Templar: spiritshields, fullplate (+antimagic blessing)
Best: rg
Worst: dk
Passive regen:
Dk: n/a
Rg: Berkana, uruz (must be sketched in room)
Templar: revit
Best: probably rg, maybe templar (not sure on rg regen numbers)
Worst: dk
Passive healing:
Dk: n/a
Rg: n/a
Templar: rite of healing, bliss (not as practical for teams, but good for the initial few rounds)
Best: templar
Worst: not templar
Active heals:
Dk: vigour, rage, fitness
Rg: rage, fitness
Templar: hands, rage, fitness
Best: I'd give this to dk, but I'm not sure how much vigour heals. Might be templar. Vigour might also be slower, in which case the benefit of being able to do it hindered isn't enough to put it above hands.
Worst: rg
Misc defensive stuff:
Dk: weathering
Rg: weathering, jera
Templar: weathering, redemption (probably fits here)
Best: templar or rg.
Worst: dk
Escape:
Dk: blackwind (kinda/if you have acrobatic boots)
Rg: raido
Templar: pilg (sort of)
Best: rg/templar, pros/cons to both.
Worst: dk
Passive damage:
Dk: hound
Rg: kestrel
Templar: falcon, condemnation
Best: templar
Worst: dk/rg
Passive affs:
Dk: deathaura
Rg: n/a
Templar: n/a
Best: dk
Worst: rg/templar
Bonus affs (on dsl etc):
Dk: n/a
Rg: etchings
Templar: mirroring
Best: templar
Worst: dk
Aff support:
Dk: passive healing block
Rg: flares
Templar: penance
Best: rg, hands down
Worst: not sure, both of these are pretty sweet. Templar is more applicable to everyone though, dk is better against a subset of matchups and generally only in one v one.
Instakills (not really applicable to teams usually):
Dk: cleave, vivisect, super dsb
Rg: cleave, super dsb
Templar: cleave, super dsb
Best: dk
Worst: rg (I can rite of healing cleave you for much rage)
Damage:
Dk: soulquench, soulstorm
Rg: sowulu, various flares
Templar: cleansing, emblazing, flare, inspiration
Best (burst): templar
Best (sustained): rg, if they get opportunity to use the flares which slow healing (pith/nauthiz)
Best (stacked): toss up between templar and dk. I'd give it to templar but the flare icd might swing it the other way. On the other hand templar gets 2 str for free, so its probably templar.
Worst: no idea really
Note: rg does require some degree of knowing what you're doing to be efficient, the other two you can arguably roll in with one alias and be pro.
Active team support:
Dk: defend, soulsense (... maybe? bit of a stretch), engage, soulspear
Rg: vortex, canopy, defend, totems, engage
Templar: defend, hands, deliver, rez, engage
Best: for utility its rg, for hair pulling frustration its templar.
Worst: dk
Passive team support:
Dk: gravehands
Rg: uruz, laguz
Templar: revit, healing, seance (situationally), warding, piety
Best: templar, no contest here really
Worst: dk
Basically, if you're decent, rg is badass for both teams and one v one. Dk is held back by vivisect and is a decent one v one class. Templar is a teams machine and very potent one v one. I personally prefer templar for teams compared to rg just because of the active health heal (this is a huge deal) and prefer rg for one v one (because its hilarious and will make people cry).
Flares: Eihwaz(rebounding block) is roughly 13s, Wunjo(procs ground rune) is roughly 9s. Pithakhan(halves next two sips) is roughly 22s. Nauthiz(blocks next toadstool) is roughly 22s. Nairat/Loshre(block a mental or physical cure of a specified type once) are on a shared 22s cooldown. Hugalaz(shield block) is on a roughly 22s cooldown. Kena(hallucinations) is roughly 9s cooldown as well. In Fast with a Diadem. 225 sabre, which is the speed for a light sabre post smithing changes, unless things change in beta, is 2.16s bal. 2.06 on rebounding only rsl. Flaring is 2.75s eq. If you flare Mannaz, your next two flares are 1.9s and have a shorter delay(1s instead of 2s) if they're delayed(wunjo, nairat, loshre, fehu(sleep)).
As far as affliction speed goes: You have access to eihwaz which blocks rebounding once after use, with a 13s cooldown. It's cool, but the eq cost of using flares at all offsets that bonus a little. You have access to loshre/nairat, which being used in the easiest way are a single herb(or purge or focus or tree or active or passive) block every 22 seconds of a random aff. It's definitely no shadowplant, but it's not useless either. You can attempt to use fehu, but hallucinations every 9s will just get focused away. You can forgo nairat on the ground in 1v1 and instead go with inguz for numbness, but that's numbness once every 9s at the cost of losing access to transfix and having to use a (generally) slower method of transitioning to disembowel.
I haven't tested since the changes to soulquench were first rolled out, but if nothing has changed, it's pretty much required to use the +soulquench animate form if you intend on using soulquench at all. Without it, it doesn't seem to proc with enough regularity to contribute much of anything.
The two minute restriction is meaningless, as is the 1500 devotion. Everyone else ends up with a fair amount of gold buy-in and one less tattoo slot in order to compete.
"On the battlefield I am a god. I love war. The steel, the smell, the corpses. I wish there were more. On the first day I drove the Northmen back alone at the ford. Alone! On the second I carried the bridge! Me! Yesterday I climbed the Heroes! I love war! I… I wish it wasn’t over."