Split thread: "Why I quit Imperian" and Mage discussion
This discussion was created from comments split from: Improving Imperian.
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Why I quit imperian.
I write this without vehemence, simply to start a discussion, or to add to one already churning. While I have opted out of the game for the foreseeable future, sharing this could be useful, or not. There is no ego here, just what I have felt, seen and learned.
1. PVP. Imperian is a pvp realm, or so we are informed. We are told that pvp is always role-play based, though for the most part I have seen role-play as a band-aid to avoid issues, and even then not successful. What I do not understand is that, for a pvp-centric realm, so few participate. There are a die-hard core of fifteen or so that actively engage and are ‘gagging’ for it. To the rest it seems a secondary objective. This leads to an important question - if Imperian is a pvp realm, are the remainder of the population playing ‘wrong’, or is it Imperian that has to change?
To continue along this vein, I can speculate as to why people opt out, or to be more specific, why I opted out. Griefing. In its simplest sense, a majority of the pvp population do not know when enough is enough. When I would try to discuss the facility of ending hostilities, the general response was ‘no, because I/we can’. After exhausting the limited options available (I’ll talk more to that soon), an issue would be filed.
Issues, when I would file them, without variation would take at least seven days to garner a response. In some cases, they were simply deleted without word, though I am aware a consequence was delivered. This is simply poor customer service. The rub is, whenever I would issue with reference to a topic that would generate funds (Customisation etc) a response would be delivered within 24 hours. This is frustrating, and bordering on tokenistic.
I spoke of limited options to respond to griefing. Hiring assassins, bounties and responding with a larger force - the actions that sometimes get results, end with the griefer having additional means by which to attack the aggrieved party. What’s the solution? I don’t know. Simply stating “PVP has no consequences” is a fallacy. PVP death does not cost experience. However it does cost resources, time, funds, and perhaps most importantly - player effort. I’m not talking of consensual PVP here, but an ongoing, unpleasant, one sided exchange. What does this lead to? Reduction of time played, cancellation of subscriptions. Again, my own experience.
As for solutions, I think it comes to the focus of the game. If its PVP, then more effort needs to be placed on readying the gaming population to this pathway, though it will reduce the total player base. However it seems that the majority of players are engaged in a different game entirely.
2. Player engagement. It’s no surprise to anyone that I’m not a coder. My spaghetti code managed to string Bellentine into a halfway decent mage fighter, before the change. Imperian is a game dominated by two factions: those who can code, and those who pay to win. These groups are not mutually exclusive. I have great frustration with a game where I have already paid hundreds of dollars to permit specific skills, and yet I cannot engage at meaningful level, simply because I cannot adequately make coded words do as they are told. Often here the cry is of community assistance. Its an interesting experience.
Some have offered and given great help, and only with the assistance a select few individuals could I have made anything work for Bellentine. But the rub is, after a while you can’t keep asking. We’re talking tutorial level of assistance. Perhaps I was wrong to try and start playing such a thing. But as a thing going forwards, perhaps the realm could offer a ‘basics’ suit for download of specific clients to permit higher functions within the classes. There’s another discussion to be had about functionality of classes and the progression to needlessly complex classes - the refit of mage is an excellent example of this. What was once a damage specific class through an easy suit of afflictions is now a one-trick pony for a person such as myself - and even that one trick is hard to make work. I tried the beta, by the time I had my head around it, it had already changed again. I’m not a coder.
3. Story - an evolving experience. When I first started playing Imperian over ten years ago, it was a very different thing. There were no circles and it was possible to be a Bard of Ithaqua (Still my favourite thing). But with change comes choices and some of them are unpleasant. Wholesale change with what seems to be reduced consultation will alienate the player base. The original circle changes drove me away in the first instance. Changes to the mage class now are doing it again, along with the other things I’ve listed. Were I staying I’d ask for a refund on the credits spent to convert Bellentine from bard to mage. Why’d I move her out of Bard? Well, I’m sure you can join the dots. Those of you who selected “An ongoing progression of classes from simple to complex” can have a cookie.
Summary: I offer this not as a final stab, but an opinion. I write this having read what the forums have to offer so it wouldn’t be useful to repeat previous points.
Thoughts are appreciated.
While I'm sad to see you go, I hope you know that either Seraphyne or I would gladly get you going with new again Mage. Really, the fire offense doesn't even require tracking at all really (and you will probably kill more people!).
As a persistent combat game, I would say only 5-7 players actively seek combat. That's approximately 2-5% of the population. I won't speak to the barrage of things that get in the way of acceptable PK instigation.
As an instanced combat game, the value of Imperian is extremely low. The trade is approximately 5 minutes of potential adrenaline rush every 3 hours (as a baseline). Compare that to an almost-always available hotjoin 15 minute competition that not only sets everyone at fairly equal footing with the final scores better approximating player skill, but also equalizes team sizes, and you can see that Imperian PK as an instanced combat game isn't really it either.
I wrote a paragraph in response to some of this but it all just comes across sounding defensive and kind of self- pitying and that's not really what I want to convey. So all I'm going to say is that it's not actually easy for everyone.
Thank you to @Chronus, @Aakrin, and @Sarrius (funny pic!) for the suggestions. Possibly @Khizan as well. I didn't really come into this with the thought of picking up some tips, but I appreciate them and will look into what you've said when I log in next.
(Sorry, this actually feels kind of belated now and I think the topic moved on. Apparently there was a few replies between when I started and when I hit post!)
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Learning code is hard, just like learning to ride a bike was tough (I'm clumsy). But once you get over the initial "ehmahgerd somebody shootmeintheface" it gets really good.
Likewise, so too is combat-stuff. Its no longer push-and-win but certainly the methods for victory are there. How much you want to delve into combat is how much you'll get in return - I can say that it is a very rewarding feeling to lockdown your opponent and save your own ass instead of yelling over CityTell screaming for assistance like I used to (ask @Menoch). That said, there are two things I want to point out: (1) it seems hard because the distance between testing and getting results is so far, because there is no reliable, non-retaliatory method for testing out your internal theories (2) if ever there is a time to really get into combat, it is when your circle is at her cyclical strongest, which Magick certainly is now. So I would say to you, if ever you wanted to work out how to use new Mage, do so while Magick is on the up, and if you ever need someone to test on, let me know, I can be your punching bag/sparring buddy.
W
I think Fire's design has plenty of room for expansion or improvement, and Water needs time to settle before we can make the call that it is not good. It theoretically has tremendous synergy with Magick, and we noted that in beta - which is why we were conservative about its power.
I would consider this a more serious problem than straight Mage damage paths, and I know how frustrating it can be (I have a baby Mage)to reach that FC threshold.
Re: applying Naturebinding curse to Firebolt - how about not? Curse is a tremendous sip penalty - add damage and attunement gain to that and you have a pretty potent skill you could just spam at the expense of the rest of the style. Curse on demand on a cooldown, at the expense of damage, would probably be a more acceptable request (and still suspect) and I have a pretty good idea how to implement it next classlead round if it is needed.
Maybe I'm reading this wrong, having just woken up, but the main complaint I'm seeing is being unable to "complete an attack chain" or "reach a finisher" in group combat because your target dies to someone else in your team. You seem to be stuck with the paltry damage of bloodboil + batter combos which, while only weighing in at average 140 damage, are on a slightly faster balance than similarly high-damage burst attacks.
But your target dies.
To someone else on your team.
Oh, I see the problem.
You don't even need to code anything special for building fire damage. Three simple aliases:
cast firewreathe bloodboil heat at target
cast firewreathe firecircle heat at target
cast penetration lavablast batter at target
You don't even need firewreathe at the beginning, you can simply just use heat and build it up quick enough too.
Just highlight attunement and watch it's level and use the three aliases accordingly.
It's not a lack of coding I'm seeing from Bellentine, it's the lack of motivation to compile actions into a comprehensive strategy that requires a simple amount of work. In this case, don't blame the game, blame the player.
I hate to break it to you, but spamming shield, getting disabled, and leaving the room shuts down pretty much every single offense in the entire game.
That's why people bother to shield, leave, or disable people.
"On the battlefield I am a god. I love war. The steel, the smell, the corpses. I wish there were more. On the first day I drove the Northmen back alone at the ford. Alone! On the second I carried the bridge! Me! Yesterday I climbed the Heroes! I love war! I… I wish it wasn’t over."