@Syrukh
Imperian and Aetolia are the most similar, in my opinion (based on population size and pvp rules)
Aetolia has a richer rp environment, while Imperian has a much better ooc-pvp-help environment with the rings.
The biggest difference is accessibility. With Garrynbot it is much easier to just leap into combat, which I like.
Aetolia handfeeds all the stats/info, so combat choices need to be perfectly made, and perfectly timed, requiring a lot of system coding.
Interestingly, both muds have the spreadsheet warrior thing going on. I think that rather than being a symptom of information being available, it is just a symptom of an aging playerbase. The combat mechanics of IRE muds were great when no one was getting the most out of them, but now that people are, the inherent flaws in the mechanics get more and more obvious with every fight.
And while I still enjoy a bit of 1vs1 from time to time in Aet, I don't enjoy it enough to do it frequently and get good at it again. The 1 vs 1 game may never recover in either mud, but if it is ever to do so, it will be because the fundamentals of pvp get a revamp. A friend of mine from Aet, who also plays a little bit here, is fond of saying that pvp needs to have more active, tactical choices. Examples might be using the environment against the target, choosing when to pop abilities on cooldowns, or other such things that require thought/understanding rather than just pure coding.
Examples might be using the environment against the target, choosing when to pop abilities on cooldowns, or other such things that require thought/understanding rather than just pure coding.
There is nothing that I wouldn't be able to code with enough time/variables. Because of how the game works(simple text input), any processing that I would do with my brain can be done with code.
It is about making it possible to make the most important decisions with your head, if you want to, without dumbing down combat too much. Some people really love creating and using an AI for pvp. Other people don't. Both are perfectly valid ways to enjoy the game, and in the past, perfectly viable ways to compete.
I don't want to go into this too much, because I am very newly returned to Imperian and so don't really deserve to be posting in a combat thread. But I can say this much:
I don't find it enjoyable when the most important decision that gets made in a duel, is whether to have clumsiness or asthma in positions 2 or 3 in my affliction stack. I suspect that I'm not alone in that, and that this is a reason why part of the playerbase has been turned off 1 vs 1. Before, the game catered to both, and now, it does not.
Can you give examples of this 1v1 that you're talking about? Imperian combat used to be much worse than its current state, with 1v1 being significantly more cheesy and unbalanced than it is now. I'm not saying this in a mocking way-- I'm honestly curious what you believe was taken out of Imperian combat.
I don't believe anything has been taken out of Imperian combat. I actually don't know for sure, being newly returned, but from what I can see it is still pretty standard for traditional IRE combat.
My point is that the mechanics which "worked" years ago, from whichever period person X remembers the most fondly, and whichever IRE mud they remember the most fondly, no longer seem to "work" as well, as evidenced by the decline in the popularity of 1 vs 1 combat - which is an IRE-wide phenomenon.
I can't tell you, definitively, why it is less popular. I'm sure that every person that liked it before but does not now, has a different reason for it.
My reason, and in my opinion a reason which is shared by others, is what I was posting.
1v1 combat was never popular in the way the white knights claim.
If you were a good fighter back in the day, real fights were always teamfights. Yeah, there were more 1v1 fights, but they weren't because it was a more honorable time and men were men and followed the code of e-bushido, it was because people sucked so badly that they couldn't get away and died before anybody could arrive to help them.
Your 1v1 fights between big names were always grueling attrition fights where you were waiting for the first mistake or painstakingly grinding them down to a point where you could kill them. Outside of the arena in 'real' fights, it was almost always a group fight.
"On the battlefield I am a god. I love war. The steel, the smell, the corpses. I wish there were more. On the first day I drove the Northmen back alone at the ford. Alone! On the second I carried the bridge! Me! Yesterday I climbed the Heroes! I love war! I… I wish it wasn’t over."
There was a pride and weird honor twelve-ish years ago, probably a lot of hubris too. Also, PvP was less common so you stuck around because you really wanted to see if you could pull off the win, not because you "sucked so badly you couldn't get away". The ability to talk legitimate trash to someone you defeated, or who ran away, was precious. Most of us, back then, would've rather died than given someone the ability to laugh at us for running away. Now, running is the smart thing to do. You've got to keep in mind that most of our mindset has changed drastically over the years.
A good duel used to put smaller issues to bed. It did, gradually, devolve into team jumps of the best fighters. It was impressive when one beleaguered pro could wipe out an entire jump squad. Raids became more common and team tactics evolved. You'd also have the two man theft teams and then later the two-bodies-one-mind combat duos.
Now, we have Garrynbot and death means little. 1v1, as it was, is dead. It's still fun but it won't settle much of anything.
If anyone wants 1v1 now all they really have to do is ask for duels on market. Trying to bring it back as the Achilles vs Hector to settle anything meaningful and become your circle's hero... is futile. There's no reason for your opponents to agree to it.
1v1 combat has its merits, but my fondest memories are of things like Ahkan, Linelle and I rolling strafe/sunder against ten Kinsarmarians. I can count on one hand the number of 1v1 wins I've experienced that felt truly rewarding, but could talk for days about the glory of facing down the enemy horde with a few good buddies and coming out on the right side of it.
Comments
Imperian and Aetolia are the most similar, in my opinion (based on population size and pvp rules)
Aetolia has a richer rp environment, while Imperian has a much better ooc-pvp-help environment with the rings.
The biggest difference is accessibility. With Garrynbot it is much easier to just leap into combat, which I like. Aetolia handfeeds all the stats/info, so combat choices need to be perfectly made, and perfectly timed, requiring a lot of system coding.
Interestingly, both muds have the spreadsheet warrior thing going on. I think that rather than being a symptom of information being available, it is just a symptom of an aging playerbase. The combat mechanics of IRE muds were great when no one was getting the most out of them, but now that people are, the inherent flaws in the mechanics get more and more obvious with every fight.
And while I still enjoy a bit of 1vs1 from time to time in Aet, I don't enjoy it enough to do it frequently and get good at it again. The 1 vs 1 game may never recover in either mud, but if it is ever to do so, it will be because the fundamentals of pvp get a revamp.
A friend of mine from Aet, who also plays a little bit here, is fond of saying that pvp needs to have more active, tactical choices. Examples might be using the environment against the target, choosing when to pop abilities on cooldowns, or other such things that require thought/understanding rather than just pure coding.
It isn't about preventing people from coding.
It is about making it possible to make the most important decisions with your head, if you want to, without dumbing down combat too much. Some people really love creating and using an AI for pvp. Other people don't. Both are perfectly valid ways to enjoy the game, and in the past, perfectly viable ways to compete.
I don't want to go into this too much, because I am very newly returned to Imperian and so don't really deserve to be posting in a combat thread. But I can say this much:
I don't find it enjoyable when the most important decision that gets made in a duel, is whether to have clumsiness or asthma in positions 2 or 3 in my affliction stack. I suspect that I'm not alone in that, and that this is a reason why part of the playerbase has been turned off 1 vs 1. Before, the game catered to both, and now, it does not.
My point is that the mechanics which "worked" years ago, from whichever period person X remembers the most fondly, and whichever IRE mud they remember the most fondly, no longer seem to "work" as well, as evidenced by the decline in the popularity of 1 vs 1 combat - which is an IRE-wide phenomenon.
I can't tell you, definitively, why it is less popular. I'm sure that every person that liked it before but does not now, has a different reason for it.
My reason, and in my opinion a reason which is shared by others, is what I was posting.
1v1 combat was never popular in the way the white knights claim.
If you were a good fighter back in the day, real fights were always teamfights. Yeah, there were more 1v1 fights, but they weren't because it was a more honorable time and men were men and followed the code of e-bushido, it was because people sucked so badly that they couldn't get away and died before anybody could arrive to help them.
Your 1v1 fights between big names were always grueling attrition fights where you were waiting for the first mistake or painstakingly grinding them down to a point where you could kill them. Outside of the arena in 'real' fights, it was almost always a group fight.
"On the battlefield I am a god. I love war. The steel, the smell, the corpses. I wish there were more. On the first day I drove the Northmen back alone at the ford. Alone! On the second I carried the bridge! Me! Yesterday I climbed the Heroes! I love war! I… I wish it wasn’t over."
A good duel used to put smaller issues to bed. It did, gradually, devolve into team jumps of the best fighters. It was impressive when one beleaguered pro could wipe out an entire jump squad. Raids became more common and team tactics evolved. You'd also have the two man theft teams and then later the two-bodies-one-mind combat duos.
Now, we have Garrynbot and death means little. 1v1, as it was, is dead. It's still fun but it won't settle much of anything.
If anyone wants 1v1 now all they really have to do is ask for duels on market. Trying to bring it back as the Achilles vs Hector to settle anything meaningful and become your circle's hero... is futile. There's no reason for your opponents to agree to it.