Yeah, I am not opposed to increasing damage. However, I am not a fan of pacifism, that just makes things not fun.
What also makes things not fun is when people are zerging back into battle every 30 seconds because they lose literally nothing for doing so. There's no exp-loss. There's no loss of belief or faith. There's absolutely no substantial drawbacks to just zerging back into battle if you're one of the first dead, and that's pretty awful.
Killing somebody in a team battle should be tactically significant and take them out of play for a while, long enough to decide a battle. It shouldn't be a case of "Well, maybe after I kill Juran or Azefel 3 or so times, the penalty will be big enough to prevent them from coming back so that maybe this fight can be resolved."
"On the battlefield I am a god. I love war. The steel, the smell, the corpses. I wish there were more. On the first day I drove the Northmen back alone at the ford. Alone! On the second I carried the bridge! Me! Yesterday I climbed the Heroes! I love war! I… I wish it wasn’t over."
Juran, Ahkan, Mena, Menoch, Eldreth and Saivash fight because they're stupid.
Khizan just randomly calls names because order doesn't matter. Nothing strategically significant is going to occur on the part of magic. I shouldn't suffer a strategic penalty when there was no strategy involved in getting me killed. Khizan (Someone?) pointed his finger and ordered a zerg damage wagon to roll over the opposition. All of the 'strategy' is on the side of the underdog. Do we really want to take people out of pk because they're the underdogs and trying to snatch victory from the jaws of baskin robbins (flavor of the month)? Shards were designed to allow underdogs and sneaky people a way to win without winning overall. I kind of enjoy showing up to team fights and winning against all odds.
If we approach this like Khizan says, I die once and I'm out for the shard fall. Well, I'm afk until the next shard fall and I'll be knocked out of that one in the first 3 minutes too. Not a great time to be had by anyone. The way this plays out is shard falls will lose any allure because an entire team gets benched because they lost one encounter. Hello, super team.
At least with the penalty point system, it takes me 2-3 deaths to work up my "pk time out." If I can't win it in 3. I'm probably not going to win it at all.
Right now, a death with an anchor takes you out of the fight for ~2 minutes. I timed it at 112 seconds last night. At two minutes, you can still get rematches in during a decent-sized shardfall without graveyard zerging back into combat Aryana-style.
I don't think we need to take it past that point, but I also don't think we really need to bring it down much past that point, either. In fights with reasonable numbers and not 14v6 fights, the first person dead shouldn't be back into play by the time the third hits the ground.
Also, I wouldn't randomly call targets there. It would go like this: Tell everybody to hit Menoch, I'll hit Mena. Mena will pop like a balloon, and Menoch will pathfinder after two hits. After he pathfinders, drop a monolith and a canopy and hit Juran. Juran will ring to safety after a good few hits and be unable to immediately track back. Kill Saivash, the squishiest remaining. Kill Eldreth, the biggest threat. Kill Ahkan, the only one dumb enough to still be in the room by this point.
"On the battlefield I am a god. I love war. The steel, the smell, the corpses. I wish there were more. On the first day I drove the Northmen back alone at the ford. Alone! On the second I carried the bridge! Me! Yesterday I climbed the Heroes! I love war! I… I wish it wasn’t over."
I guess that's how you picture team fights in your head.
In practice, you hit at random. Sometimes Menoch is first, sometimes Menoch is last. Your dps is usually split (unintentionally) and it doesn't matter. Also, like any one of your runeguards knows which rune does canopy without looking it up. Two, you wouldn't stop dsl/sowulu long enough to canopy.
The speed harvesting perk from shard research dramatically reduces the time to clear an area. By your system, people would miss the rematch. With an accrued point system, you'd take your 30, 60, 90 minute rezz and be back in the fray instantly.
Sticking around is what nets me kills, most of the time. When the rest of the DPS tumbles/pathfinders at the first hint of damage, I get all the goodies. Plus, I couldn't run if I wanted to anyways.
None of that was serious, I was just making fun of people. In reality, I'd say "We've got double their numbers. Hit people." and maaaaaaaaybe I would spam a name on the clan midfight if I saw a defender or something.
It honestly never occurred to me that you would take that seriously at all.
"On the battlefield I am a god. I love war. The steel, the smell, the corpses. I wish there were more. On the first day I drove the Northmen back alone at the ford. Alone! On the second I carried the bridge! Me! Yesterday I climbed the Heroes! I love war! I… I wish it wasn’t over."
Doesn't really matter either way. Strategy or no strategy, the druids usually win. If the underdog loses, they're eating an unnecessary penalty that forces them onto the bench until the next game. You of all people should understand why the underdog is fun.
@Ahkan - Underdog is always more fun, especially if you come out on top.
I honestly can't wait to see what they change with Dis. I remember back in the day spending a good three hours walking around Dis figuring out all the nifty quests and finding out how Eoggor worked.
Yeah, but in any kind of more reasonably sized fight, like 5v5 or so, that 30 second dude is going to be back in the fight before the third kill hits the ground. It's a huge change to the fight dynamics, and I don't think it would be an improvement.
Also, while I know it's possible to win a 14v6 and I know that we've both done it, you're basically relying on your opponents being pants-on-head-retarded and doing things like "hitting Aronus' shield without razing it while we enf/abs them down" or "horribly splitting DPS against a dedicated leech team" and "not picking druid". It's a situation you don't design around because it's impossible to balance and a definite outlier case.
"On the battlefield I am a god. I love war. The steel, the smell, the corpses. I wish there were more. On the first day I drove the Northmen back alone at the ford. Alone! On the second I carried the bridge! Me! Yesterday I climbed the Heroes! I love war! I… I wish it wasn’t over."
5v5 would be fun as hell. With a 'point system' you would be able to get 3 fights out of one shard fall, instead of one and done. (which is how they are now). That's pretty reasonable. Anything that detracts from that is kind of /sadface. We want more reasonable pk, not less.
Also, dk's can pathfinder now, that's pcool. What you really mean is "Menoch has a boatload of tanking arties and only half my druid team will pay attention and hit him, which will be enough for him to tank for 2-7 seconds before he explodes."
Comments
Killing somebody in a team battle should be tactically significant and take them out of play for a while, long enough to decide a battle. It shouldn't be a case of "Well, maybe after I kill Juran or Azefel 3 or so times, the penalty will be big enough to prevent them from coming back so that maybe this fight can be resolved."
"On the battlefield I am a god. I love war. The steel, the smell, the corpses. I wish there were more. On the first day I drove the Northmen back alone at the ford. Alone! On the second I carried the bridge! Me! Yesterday I climbed the Heroes! I love war! I… I wish it wasn’t over."
Khizan, 4 lorekeepers 9 druids walk in.
Juran, Ahkan, Mena, Menoch, Eldreth and Saivash fight because they're stupid.
Khizan just randomly calls names because order doesn't matter. Nothing strategically significant is going to occur on the part of magic. I shouldn't suffer a strategic penalty when there was no strategy involved in getting me killed. Khizan (Someone?) pointed his finger and ordered a zerg damage wagon to roll over the opposition. All of the 'strategy' is on the side of the underdog. Do we really want to take people out of pk because they're the underdogs and trying to snatch victory from the jaws of baskin robbins (flavor of the month)? Shards were designed to allow underdogs and sneaky people a way to win without winning overall. I kind of enjoy showing up to team fights and winning against all odds.
Right now, a death with an anchor takes you out of the fight for ~2 minutes. I timed it at 112 seconds last night. At two minutes, you can still get rematches in during a decent-sized shardfall without graveyard zerging back into combat Aryana-style.
I don't think we need to take it past that point, but I also don't think we really need to bring it down much past that point, either. In fights with reasonable numbers and not 14v6 fights, the first person dead shouldn't be back into play by the time the third hits the ground.
Also, I wouldn't randomly call targets there. It would go like this: Tell everybody to hit Menoch, I'll hit Mena. Mena will pop like a balloon, and Menoch will pathfinder after two hits. After he pathfinders, drop a monolith and a canopy and hit Juran. Juran will ring to safety after a good few hits and be unable to immediately track back. Kill Saivash, the squishiest remaining. Kill Eldreth, the biggest threat. Kill Ahkan, the only one dumb enough to still be in the room by this point.
"On the battlefield I am a god. I love war. The steel, the smell, the corpses. I wish there were more. On the first day I drove the Northmen back alone at the ford. Alone! On the second I carried the bridge! Me! Yesterday I climbed the Heroes! I love war! I… I wish it wasn’t over."
In practice, you hit at random. Sometimes Menoch is first, sometimes Menoch is last. Your dps is usually split (unintentionally) and it doesn't matter. Also, like any one of your runeguards knows which rune does canopy without looking it up. Two, you wouldn't stop dsl/sowulu long enough to canopy.
None of that was serious, I was just making fun of people. In reality, I'd say "We've got double their numbers. Hit people." and maaaaaaaaybe I would spam a name on the clan midfight if I saw a defender or something.
It honestly never occurred to me that you would take that seriously at all.
"On the battlefield I am a god. I love war. The steel, the smell, the corpses. I wish there were more. On the first day I drove the Northmen back alone at the ford. Alone! On the second I carried the bridge! Me! Yesterday I climbed the Heroes! I love war! I… I wish it wasn’t over."
I honestly can't wait to see what they change with Dis. I remember back in the day spending a good three hours walking around Dis figuring out all the nifty quests and finding out how Eoggor worked.
Yeah, but in any kind of more reasonably sized fight, like 5v5 or so, that 30 second dude is going to be back in the fight before the third kill hits the ground. It's a huge change to the fight dynamics, and I don't think it would be an improvement.
Also, while I know it's possible to win a 14v6 and I know that we've both done it, you're basically relying on your opponents being pants-on-head-retarded and doing things like "hitting Aronus' shield without razing it while we enf/abs them down" or "horribly splitting DPS against a dedicated leech team" and "not picking druid". It's a situation you don't design around because it's impossible to balance and a definite outlier case.
"On the battlefield I am a god. I love war. The steel, the smell, the corpses. I wish there were more. On the first day I drove the Northmen back alone at the ford. Alone! On the second I carried the bridge! Me! Yesterday I climbed the Heroes! I love war! I… I wish it wasn’t over."