2-3 minute would make the first shardfall battle be what decides who dominates the entire thing.
<div>Message #2062 Sent By: (imperian) Received On: 1/20/2018/2:59</div><div>"Antioch has filed a bounty against you. Reason: Raiding Antioch and stealing Bina, being a right</div><div>ass, and not belonging anywhere near Antioch till he grows up."</div>
Would it also prevent being attacked? Also would it prevent doing all aggressive actions, or only actual attacks?
If I die in a raid, come back in my city then get ganked by the raiders again while being unable to attack back, that would suck. But if they can't attack me, it leads to abuse and running into a group of enemies to 'scout' or in some people's case, mouth off.
You would still be attackable, and the ability to remain in a safe room would likewise remain. Only actual attacks would be prevented. Essentially this is a slightly altered variant of the "increased PK damage / reduced health" suggestion.
Not sure why this would affect shard battles, isn't getting out of Dis similarly long currently?
You would still be attackable, and the ability to remain in a safe room would likewise remain. Only actual attacks would be prevented. Essentially this is a slightly altered variant of the "increased PK damage / reduced health" suggestion.
Not sure why this would affect shard battles, isn't getting out of Dis similarly long currently?
I don't think it takes me 2 - 3 minutes to escape Dis, but I could be telling total lies.
Also, there's nothing more frustrating than being alive and being told you aren't allowed to have fun. That just sucks.
<div>Message #2062 Sent By: (imperian) Received On: 1/20/2018/2:59</div><div>"Antioch has filed a bounty against you. Reason: Raiding Antioch and stealing Bina, being a right</div><div>ass, and not belonging anywhere near Antioch till he grows up."</div>
Nyrroth with a gossamer anchor is the fastest reliable way out of Dis right now, aside from the swim-the-river soulstones, and that's at ~112 seconds to get out of Dis.
"On the battlefield I am a god. I love war. The steel, the smell, the corpses. I wish there were more. On the first day I drove the Northmen back alone at the ford. Alone! On the second I carried the bridge! Me! Yesterday I climbed the Heroes! I love war! I… I wish it wasn’t over."
Also, there's nothing more frustrating than being alive and being told you aren't allowed to have fun. That just sucks.
Ultimately, this is exactly the problem that we are attempting to solve. Long death timers are boring, so we want to shorten them. This is fine for bashing deaths, but letting players rejoin a fight in 30 seconds turns that fight into an attrition battle which is not fun for anyone. There may be other solutions that we haven't thought of yet, but for now the only choice is between a hard block (longer death timer in PK deaths, grace, or pacifism), or a soft block (a penalty so severe that even though you -can- go rejoin that fight, you most likely won't).
What about a 10-15% increase for 2-3 minutes that comes with a 10 minute timer and if you die again in that timer the effect stacks up to a certain level? I know getting zerged repeatedly is not ideal but when i'm in a shardfall or something and we win the first fight I generally want them to come back and fight again. This would keep the fight going for a while but the debuff would eventually catch up with them and they would have to wait it out after a few attempts. Maybe just give them the 10 minute timer the first go around so they don't take extra damage the first time they come back.
Rather than reduced health, just increase
damage from players. That way you can get back into PVE without a delay,
but you have to think twice about PVP.
I am the righteous one... the claims are stated - it's the world I've created
I'm really not a fan of that. 10% health loss? Way too low.
I have 670 health. So after one death, I have 603. Two deaths, 536. Three, 469. 4 deaths, 402.
It takes me 4 deaths to even get my foot into the territory of Significant Drawback, and even then I'm still above 400. That's 4 times that the enemy has to kill me before I even really become seriously hindered... and after 4 deaths I STILL have more health than an Intelligent Aspect. You're gonna have to kill me FIVE times to make me consider sitting out. Six times when you count my starburst tattoo. Maybe seven times, quite possibly 8-9, since I'll be able to touch starburst again multiple times in the midst of all that.
That doesn't allow PvP zerging if desired. That makes PvP zerging absolutely positively 100% mandatory and changes the game hugely.
"On the battlefield I am a god. I love war. The steel, the smell, the corpses. I wish there were more. On the first day I drove the Northmen back alone at the ford. Alone! On the second I carried the bridge! Me! Yesterday I climbed the Heroes! I love war! I… I wish it wasn’t over."
Why not make each death in a certain window make your trip through the respawn sequence longer?
<div>Message #2062 Sent By: (imperian) Received On: 1/20/2018/2:59</div><div>"Antioch has filed a bounty against you. Reason: Raiding Antioch and stealing Bina, being a right</div><div>ass, and not belonging anywhere near Antioch till he grows up."</div>
After I posted, I realized that I had wanted to increase damage by 10% to a recently rezzed player, not decrease max health.
Edit: Maybe by 25% actually.
25% would be way better. But even that's not enough. Look at it this way:
I've got 670 health. When I'm taking 25% more damage I've got a very rough estimate of 536 effective health, which is to say that while you had to deal 670 damage to kill me before the debuff, now you have to deal 536 damage to me to reach that 670 mark. It's a horrible estimate, especially because healing and attacks are still based off of the old percentage, but it's just meant to demonstrate that I'm still going to roll into battle combat effective.
I'd prefer to go up to 33%, where strychnine is. Hell, where I really want to start is 100% and have it tick down by 25% every 30 seconds.
And I'd like to give repeated deaths a cost to you. An actual cost of something other than time, though I guess I'd be okay with mandatory pacifism for a fairly long length of time. Something to prevent things like "I tried to capture Septus' monolith. It takes longer than 30 seconds to capture Septus' monolith. He's coming back at maximum penalty, repeatedly, to just poke me and make me stop capturing it in the hopes that I have to log off before he does." Aulani and I once fought with Septus and Azefel for ~2 hours over control of a monolith. He will totally do that. He will not be alone.
Zerging right back into the fight right after your 10-30 second trip to the portal room should be something that's risky, something that you do because that one hit you get off and that one hit that you take in the place of an ally might win a clutch battle and take an Obelisk or a CTF or something, and it's worth the attempt.
It should not be something that you do in absolutely every single shardfall because, well, why not? There's no penalty for dying, so it's not like rushing into battle at +100% damage taken actually costs you anything.
"On the battlefield I am a god. I love war. The steel, the smell, the corpses. I wish there were more. On the first day I drove the Northmen back alone at the ford. Alone! On the second I carried the bridge! Me! Yesterday I climbed the Heroes! I love war! I… I wish it wasn’t over."
You could increase balance/equilibrium time for a newly-risen player who had fallen to PvP for whatever amount of time seems reasonable, with the justification that the trauma of traveling through Dis and back to their body has temporarily thrown their reflexes out of whack. That way, you can get right back into combat, if you're super desperate to do so, but you won't be nearly as effective as if you'd waited a minute or two or however long.
This could be combined with some other malus if it's deemed not good enough, though I also like the idea of there being a small pool of negatives that are randomly assigned to you when you return to life. In that way, you can't really predict how a returning victim will behave, and you won't necessarily be completely nerfed out for a few more minutes than usual.
Caelya may be on to something. We've been having issues with the new no xp loss system and zerging, what if you accrued some sort of 'death penalty' per death that decayed over time? If you had x number of points you pick up maluses?
The problem I foresee here, is if I'm defending against a greater invasion force. I'm going to get knocked out of the fights pretty quickly and it's just going to feed on itself. People only raid when they have an advantage and they're generally going to rack kills up really quickly. It's kind of "meh" if I'm going to be penalized.
Hmm, maybe you could do "death penalty points" based on where you die (in pvp)?
If it's neutral you get x. If it's your territory you get like .5(x)
Something something something if you've taken damage from another person in x amount of time then this penalty is still incurred. Lookin at you mushroom sigils.
Comments
If I die in a raid, come back in my city then get ganked by the raiders again while being unable to attack back, that would suck. But if they can't attack me, it leads to abuse and running into a group of enemies to 'scout' or in some people's case, mouth off.
Not sure why this would affect shard battles, isn't getting out of Dis similarly long currently?
Also, there's nothing more frustrating than being alive and being told you aren't allowed to have fun. That just sucks.
Nyrroth with a gossamer anchor is the fastest reliable way out of Dis right now, aside from the swim-the-river soulstones, and that's at ~112 seconds to get out of Dis.
"On the battlefield I am a god. I love war. The steel, the smell, the corpses. I wish there were more. On the first day I drove the Northmen back alone at the ford. Alone! On the second I carried the bridge! Me! Yesterday I climbed the Heroes! I love war! I… I wish it wasn’t over."
the claims are stated - it's the world I've created
I like all this plus what Lio suggested about incerased damage from players rather than reduced health.
I'm really not a fan of that. 10% health loss? Way too low.
I have 670 health. So after one death, I have 603. Two deaths, 536. Three, 469. 4 deaths, 402.
It takes me 4 deaths to even get my foot into the territory of Significant Drawback, and even then I'm still above 400. That's 4 times that the enemy has to kill me before I even really become seriously hindered... and after 4 deaths I STILL have more health than an Intelligent Aspect. You're gonna have to kill me FIVE times to make me consider sitting out. Six times when you count my starburst tattoo. Maybe seven times, quite possibly 8-9, since I'll be able to touch starburst again multiple times in the midst of all that.
That doesn't allow PvP zerging if desired. That makes PvP zerging absolutely positively 100% mandatory and changes the game hugely.
"On the battlefield I am a god. I love war. The steel, the smell, the corpses. I wish there were more. On the first day I drove the Northmen back alone at the ford. Alone! On the second I carried the bridge! Me! Yesterday I climbed the Heroes! I love war! I… I wish it wasn’t over."
the claims are stated - it's the world I've created
25% would be way better. But even that's not enough. Look at it this way:
I've got 670 health. When I'm taking 25% more damage I've got a very rough estimate of 536 effective health, which is to say that while you had to deal 670 damage to kill me before the debuff, now you have to deal 536 damage to me to reach that 670 mark. It's a horrible estimate, especially because healing and attacks are still based off of the old percentage, but it's just meant to demonstrate that I'm still going to roll into battle combat effective.
I'd prefer to go up to 33%, where strychnine is. Hell, where I really want to start is 100% and have it tick down by 25% every 30 seconds.
And I'd like to give repeated deaths a cost to you. An actual cost of something other than time, though I guess I'd be okay with mandatory pacifism for a fairly long length of time. Something to prevent things like "I tried to capture Septus' monolith. It takes longer than 30 seconds to capture Septus' monolith. He's coming back at maximum penalty, repeatedly, to just poke me and make me stop capturing it in the hopes that I have to log off before he does." Aulani and I once fought with Septus and Azefel for ~2 hours over control of a monolith. He will totally do that. He will not be alone.
Zerging right back into the fight right after your 10-30 second trip to the portal room should be something that's risky, something that you do because that one hit you get off and that one hit that you take in the place of an ally might win a clutch battle and take an Obelisk or a CTF or something, and it's worth the attempt.
It should not be something that you do in absolutely every single shardfall because, well, why not? There's no penalty for dying, so it's not like rushing into battle at +100% damage taken actually costs you anything.
"On the battlefield I am a god. I love war. The steel, the smell, the corpses. I wish there were more. On the first day I drove the Northmen back alone at the ford. Alone! On the second I carried the bridge! Me! Yesterday I climbed the Heroes! I love war! I… I wish it wasn’t over."
Hmm, maybe you could do "death penalty points" based on where you die (in pvp)?
If it's neutral you get x.
If it's your territory you get like .5(x)
Level 2:
Level 3:
Level 5:
Penalty box grace. STOP DYING. STEP AWAY. HAVE A COKE AND A SMILE.
It looks like a trick that Mena can use however.