The Toxin banning crew did the same with toxins and got pk'd into oblivion (and lost all subsequent issues). They became the Star Consortium, that got dinged for ripping people off. The SC eventually bought Antioch and tried toxin-ban the remix. I've heard the lyrics to this song before. (at least three times). A spade is a spade and this is a meta-gaming exercise to generate profits for personal/city use to exploit flaws in the 'conflict system*.' 'There's not even a flimsy in character justification to wave around here. I guess you can say, "it took bawls to do."
But it didn't.
*Flaws: -No one ever wants to fight a fair fight. Luckily, you don't have to! -Game's population isn't balanced (for a lot of reasons) aka: conflict system isn't balanced -Off hours war is dumb (see point above, extrapolate relationship of large population and time slot coverage) -Some of the obelisks blow. -The 4-5 obelisk unlock requirement is bad. (silly, excessive) -Obelisks are the alterac valley of Imperian. AV sucked. -lolmetagaming (this is a minor problem, but you've got to mention it) No. I will not log on for an obelisk fight. Don't text me
Juran decides to sell out the game's conflict systems. Khizan is in favor. Noone is surprised.
This really shouldn't come as a surprise. :P
There's only two real ways to obtain the fifth level of Obelisk Attunement/Research, now that the cost of chargebombs has gone up sufficiently to prevent off-hours quad-captures.
You can have the willing cooperation of another faction, or you can have such an overwhelming presence that the other sides basically can't do anything about it. The only real way to get the latter is to wait for the cycle to turn and for your side to be on the top again. Historically, AM has probably spent as much time at the top of the cycle as the other two factions combined; this is a bad bet for magick, who never lasts long at the top. .
If you don't want to wait on it, you need the cooperation, which will probably require compensation.
The third option is a theoretically possible long grinding trudge towards Total Obelisk Superiority. This is theoretically possible, but you can get denied it easily because the other two circles have two generators worth of energy and they only need to hold two obelisks between them to deny you Attunement 5. Also, Obelisk battles suck so hard, the going is so slow, and the outcome is so uncertain that it's really hard to generate interest in this kind of campaign. I, personally, have no interest in it for just those reasons.
I don't understand this. Antioch hates Demonick, but is willing to trade with them? Makes no sense.
Right now, the city finances are such that Celidon has more money than the other 5 organizations combined. Antioch burned huge amounts of gold defending 7 gates during the God War, and they've shouldered the majority of the AM shard research costs. Shard research is expensive.
He's offering to sacrifice a transient advantage for the gain of resources. It's a smart move, especially because they're going strong enough that they could hope to take them back after the 2 year grace period.
The only thing that got me thinking was the upcoming tourney advantage, but then again... how big will be the advantage?
Sect rituals seem like a bigger advantage overall.
I doubt it.
Favours and pre-bashing will undoubtedly play a part, but that's about it. Most of the other powers are either expensive one shot tricks, need to be used at the altar, or both.
"On the battlefield I am a god. I love war. The steel, the smell, the corpses. I wish there were more. On the first day I drove the Northmen back alone at the ford. Alone! On the second I carried the bridge! Me! Yesterday I climbed the Heroes! I love war! I… I wish it wasn’t over."
Yeah, Obelisk battles or a whole lot of not fun....When I came back from a long hiatus Obelisks were shakily established and shardfalls had just become a thing. I remember my first Obelisk battle, we sat around for a hour(the whole time I was thinking we were going to get control of the obelisk) when that hour ended I was all hyped because there was a new shiny toy to learn about....but low and behold we had only taken out an outpost. Needless to say I swore to never participate in that crap again. An hour wasted for no benefit? No thanks.
From an OOC perspective this makes sense. I would have to understand most if not all of the implications first, but from a completely utilitarian standpoint I am fine with this.
From an IC perspective, this is dumb. Antioch exists because they are anti-magick. I could understand Stavenn or Khandava selling to magickers or anti-magickers because momma want to pay bills and magickers selling to anti-magickers, but this seems like an awful idea. What's the point of being an anti-magicker if you're actively colluding with demoners or magickers? Money isn't a reason. Money is transitory. This is a slippery slope and at the end of the day it means that the only reason that anti-magickers don't mess about with magickers/demoners is for mechanical reasons, not roleplay ones.
What I'm hoping for is to take the money and then initiate a nasty backstab. I'm -really- hoping for that because it tickles my inner Machiavelli.
What I'm expecting is some sort of cash out. Moving to a new circle costs credits. Not immediately mind you, but there's a ridiculous amount of freedom you have when you're the leader of a city in terms of access to money and city credits. Roll in the position long enough and you can bankroll any sort of neat character improvements.
Juran never seemed to me like someone who does things for arbitrary reasons. This is a means to an end. You don't want 5 million gold for the sake of what a fantastic paperweight it makes. You want to use it.
From an IC perspective, this is dumb. Antioch exists because they are anti-magick. I could understand Stavenn or Khandava selling to magickers or anti-magickers because momma want to pay bills and magickers selling to anti-magickers, but this seems like an awful idea. What's the point of being an anti-magicker if you're actively colluding with demoners or magickers? Money isn't a reason. Money is transitory. This is a slippery slope and at the end of the day it means that the only reason that anti-magickers don't mess about with magickers/demoners is for mechanical reasons, not roleplay ones.
From IC perspective, I rather see us not able to research until we can "tighten up, man up, fix our org, etc. etc" and are able to take what we want, as Stavenn should be doing, rather than pay to Antioch for anything. I realize that right now we are an underdog, but it happened before and I am sure it will be rectified again sooner or later.
Considering Juran just invested in two or three new professions, I doubt he's going anywhere. We're doing it to recoup losses from the gate war and the research bills that Ithaqua didn't have the money for when the circle first started booming again. The sales move was discussed briefly in character and my response was an overwhelmingly neutral 'I doubt we'll get bites, but do it for gags'.
<div>Message #2062 Sent By: (imperian) Received On: 1/20/2018/2:59</div><div>"Antioch has filed a bounty against you. Reason: Raiding Antioch and stealing Bina, being a right</div><div>ass, and not belonging anywhere near Antioch till he grows up."</div>
Juran never seemed to me like someone who does things for arbitrary reasons. This is a means to an end. You don't want 5 million gold for the sake of what a fantastic paperweight it makes. You want to use it.
Having gold for the sake of having gold would be a silly reason to give up our research advantages, I agree. However, moradeim attunement 5 is 1.2 million gold, true sight attunement 5 is 1.2 million gold, explosives 5 is 1.2 million gold - that 5 million gold pay day would very quickly evaporate into tangible research payouts.
On the obelisk system: I'm a big believer in conflict systems are as fun as you make them. The obelisk system is actually a fairly good idea on paper. Two circles throw down in a no interference cage match until one walks away the winner. In reality one circle camps out (with their trusty youtube/crossword/whatever time passing mechanism they have handy) while the other circle has two dudes between their cwhos. The opportunity is definitely there to derive enjoyment from the system, it would just require people to take the risky and less efficient option (which would be suboptimal and fairly stupid, given the time investment attached to chargebomb energy, and doubly so since you can be confident the other sides are not going to do the same). I've generally enjoyed most of the obelisk battles I've been in, but perhaps I'm a masochist.
On the obelisk system: I'm a big believer in conflict systems are as fun as you make them. The obelisk system is actually a fairly good idea on paper. Two circles throw down in a no interference cage match until one walks away the winner. In reality one circle camps out (with their trusty youtube/crossword/whatever time passing mechanism they have handy) while the other circle has two dudes between their cwhos. The opportunity is definitely there to derive enjoyment from the system, it would just require people to take the risky and less efficient option (which would be suboptimal and fairly stupid, given the time investment attached to chargebomb energy, and doubly so since you can be confident the other sides are not going to do the same). I've generally enjoyed most of the obelisk battles I've been in, but perhaps I'm a masochist.
Capturing can be really fun. Just make sure somebody has a poker table :P
Playing poker with most of these people is awful. :P
"On the battlefield I am a god. I love war. The steel, the smell, the corpses. I wish there were more. On the first day I drove the Northmen back alone at the ford. Alone! On the second I carried the bridge! Me! Yesterday I climbed the Heroes! I love war! I… I wish it wasn’t over."
I spend the first 10 minutes of the hour explaining to new people how Obelisk mechanics work, then 30 minutes describing how obscure game mechanics work in team fights that probably no one cares about, 18 minutes thanking people for coming and counting down every 5 minutes how long it has left to capture, and then the final 2 minutes evacing everyone from my tent and pulling rites and pets so I can take it with me when we get kicked off the island.
Anyone that has ever captured an obelisk with me should be able to tell you this.
I usually time out doing something more interesting than the obelisk fight itself. I started to list it, but that list is long. 30 minutes to describe writhe stacking is a bit much.
Comments
But it didn't.
*Flaws:
-No one ever wants to fight a fair fight. Luckily, you don't have to!
-Game's population isn't balanced (for a lot of reasons) aka: conflict system isn't balanced
-Off hours war is dumb (see point above, extrapolate relationship of large population and time slot coverage)
-Some of the obelisks blow.
-The 4-5 obelisk unlock requirement is bad. (silly, excessive)
-Obelisks are the alterac valley of Imperian. AV sucked.
-lolmetagaming (this is a minor problem, but you've got to mention it) No. I will not log on for an obelisk fight. Don't text me
This really shouldn't come as a surprise. :P
There's only two real ways to obtain the fifth level of Obelisk Attunement/Research, now that the cost of chargebombs has gone up sufficiently to prevent off-hours quad-captures.
You can have the willing cooperation of another faction, or you can have such an overwhelming presence that the other sides basically can't do anything about it. The only real way to get the latter is to wait for the cycle to turn and for your side to be on the top again. Historically, AM has probably spent as much time at the top of the cycle as the other two factions combined; this is a bad bet for magick, who never lasts long at the top. .
If you don't want to wait on it, you need the cooperation, which will probably require compensation.
The third option is a theoretically possible long grinding trudge towards Total Obelisk Superiority. This is theoretically possible, but you can get denied it easily because the other two circles have two generators worth of energy and they only need to hold two obelisks between them to deny you Attunement 5. Also, Obelisk battles suck so hard, the going is so slow, and the outcome is so uncertain that it's really hard to generate interest in this kind of campaign. I, personally, have no interest in it for just those reasons.
Right now, the city finances are such that Celidon has more money than the other 5 organizations combined. Antioch burned huge amounts of gold defending 7 gates during the God War, and they've shouldered the majority of the AM shard research costs. Shard research is expensive.
He's offering to sacrifice a transient advantage for the gain of resources. It's a smart move, especially because they're going strong enough that they could hope to take them back after the 2 year grace period.
I doubt it.
Favours and pre-bashing will undoubtedly play a part, but that's about it. Most of the other powers are either expensive one shot tricks, need to be used at the altar, or both.
"On the battlefield I am a god. I love war. The steel, the smell, the corpses. I wish there were more. On the first day I drove the Northmen back alone at the ford. Alone! On the second I carried the bridge! Me! Yesterday I climbed the Heroes! I love war! I… I wish it wasn’t over."
From an IC perspective, this is dumb. Antioch exists because they are anti-magick. I could understand Stavenn or Khandava selling to magickers or anti-magickers because momma want to pay bills and magickers selling to anti-magickers, but this seems like an awful idea. What's the point of being an anti-magicker if you're actively colluding with demoners or magickers? Money isn't a reason. Money is transitory. This is a slippery slope and at the end of the day it means that the only reason that anti-magickers don't mess about with magickers/demoners is for mechanical reasons, not roleplay ones.
What I'm hoping for is to take the money and then initiate a nasty backstab. I'm -really- hoping for that because it tickles my inner Machiavelli.
What I'm expecting is some sort of cash out. Moving to a new circle costs credits. Not immediately mind you, but there's a ridiculous amount of freedom you have when you're the leader of a city in terms of access to money and city credits. Roll in the position long enough and you can bankroll any sort of neat character improvements.
Juran never seemed to me like someone who does things for arbitrary reasons. This is a means to an end. You don't want 5 million gold for the sake of what a fantastic paperweight it makes. You want to use it.
Playing poker with most of these people is awful. :P
"On the battlefield I am a god. I love war. The steel, the smell, the corpses. I wish there were more. On the first day I drove the Northmen back alone at the ford. Alone! On the second I carried the bridge! Me! Yesterday I climbed the Heroes! I love war! I… I wish it wasn’t over."
I spend the first 10 minutes of the hour explaining to new people how Obelisk mechanics work, then 30 minutes describing how obscure game mechanics work in team fights that probably no one cares about, 18 minutes thanking people for coming and counting down every 5 minutes how long it has left to capture, and then the final 2 minutes evacing everyone from my tent and pulling rites and pets so I can take it with me when we get kicked off the island.
Anyone that has ever captured an obelisk with me should be able to tell you this.