I am all for people being able to PVP/PVE until they puke. But arguments like "I can't keep prowling up forever" is not really valid imo. Strong abilities needs restrictions since there is no reason as to why people should be able to upkeep all buffs at all times. Nor would a mana-drain on those abilities help (unless you are a cleric/druid/malignist). Take the commonly used abilities that are currently an issue and lower the cost greatly ( clot for example. ), and I am certain people wouldn't drain out, unless they are unable to turn their abilities off when not using them.
I am all for people being able to PVP/PVE until they puke. But arguments like "I can't keep prowling up forever" is not really valid imo. Strong abilities needs restrictions since there is no reason as to why people should be able to upkeep all buffs at all times. Nor would a mana-drain on those abilities help (unless you are a cleric/druid/malignist). Take the commonly used abilities that are currently an issue and lower the cost greatly ( clot for example. ), and I am certain people wouldn't drain out, unless they are unable to turn their abilities off when not using them.
Even with refresh endurance I can't bash out an entire area using Prowling. It's not "I can't keep it up forever", it's "I can't clear Necropolis once."
I am all for people being able to PVP/PVE until they puke. But arguments like "I can't keep prowling up forever" is not really valid imo. Strong abilities needs restrictions since there is no reason as to why people should be able to upkeep all buffs at all times. Nor would a mana-drain on those abilities help (unless you are a cleric/druid/malignist). Take the commonly used abilities that are currently an issue and lower the cost greatly ( clot for example. ), and I am certain people wouldn't drain out, unless they are unable to turn their abilities off when not using them.
Even with refresh endurance I can't bash out an entire area using Prowling. It's not "I can't keep it up forever", it's "I can't clear Necropolis once."
That's why he's saying essentially things should be lowered. You shouldn't be able to have prowling up 24/7 when bashing. Just like I shouldn't be able to have up all perception defs all the time. Or monks shouldn't have up all all blocks all the time.
I am all for people being able to PVP/PVE until they puke. But arguments like "I can't keep prowling up forever" is not really valid imo. Strong abilities needs restrictions since there is no reason as to why people should be able to upkeep all buffs at all times. Nor would a mana-drain on those abilities help (unless you are a cleric/druid/malignist). Take the commonly used abilities that are currently an issue and lower the cost greatly ( clot for example. ), and I am certain people wouldn't drain out, unless they are unable to turn their abilities off when not using them.
Even with refresh endurance I can't bash out an entire area using Prowling. It's not "I can't keep it up forever", it's "I can't clear Necropolis once."
Nor can't I since I lack prowling and therefor dies to the clot. I couldn't maintain posture forever either when fighting as monk or use all telepathy abilities so therefor I had to use it when I needed it. You have to understand how awfully strong an ability is when you can solo bash an area that not even artifacted aspects can handle damage-wise as an idrasi. And still you have lure.
I found out yesterday that Celidon even moved their set of crafting rooms onto a siege line, totems at this point are almost entirely irrelevant.
Really the only thing I use them for are my unborrowable indoor towne entrances, because townes are so annoying to defend.
Implanted totems are an unfair advantage that should be removed for the sake of parity. I'm still on the fence about stood totems.
Totems are an interesting dynamic, because no matter what I'm doing I have to consider them. If I want to fight someone and there's a runeguard or wytch in the room, I have to disrupt the totem before I can engage or give up and accept about 10-15 seconds of disable before anyone in my group can attack.
Disabling without a wall can be done with beckon if you're faster than vortex, but if there's a wall in the way the only way to safely attack is to use multiple broad arrows or telepathy. Wedge and the basilisk traps are similar, but they're only one target and have much less of an impact on the fight.
Since you plan to make the Rift part of a character's inventory, will it be possible to use inventory-peeking skills (including GUILD INVENTORY <person>) to see another character's 'storage space'?
Even with refresh endurance I can't bash out an entire area using Prowling. It's not "I can't keep it up forever", it's "I can't clear Necropolis once."
You don't have to keep it up 100% of the time bashing in there. I use maybe 25-30% of my max endurance bashing Necropolis using prowling where needed.
With the reasoning you give for the removal of Willpower and Endurance, wouldn't it also make sense to make similar changes to Devotion and Essence?
I'm no Garryn, but I can certainly see a dramatic semantic difference in the two. Devotion and Essence are short-term limiters, to keep you from spamming high-cost abilities in a short period of time. They regenerate in large amounts fairly frequently and there are other ways to increase your supply.
Willpower and endurance, in most cases, tend to be troublesome when used over longer periods of routine activity. Things like elemental forms, which are (for now) pretty much required for Mage bashing or combat. Things like willpower-based bashing attacks. Before the recent deadeye changes, attempting to bash as a Diabolist between levels 20 and 100 was completely ludicrous. You'd be out of willpower almost immediately. That actively hurts players' enjoyment of the game, and it's something that simply doesn't have huge combat ramifications.
A very good point along your line of thinking is that the essence/devotion/sanguis costs of routine, non-combat-relevant techniques are too high. I'd be inclined to agree. (What up, consecration.)
With the reasoning you give for the removal of Willpower and Endurance, wouldn't it also make sense to make similar changes to Devotion and Essence?
(SNIP)
A very good point along your line of thinking is that the essence/devotion/sanguis costs of routine, non-combat-relevant techniques are too high. I'd be inclined to agree. (What up, consecration.)
You forgot haze. Hazewards don't make themselves, you know
I am the righteous one... the claims are stated - it's the world I've created
I would like to see endurance/willpower remain in a way, because I dislike the idea of converting all skills to either a free passive or another passive mana drain. I think there's a place for a tertiary resource.
So let's make a new stat. I'll call it resilience, and it'll be nothing but a measure of your character's ability to sustain certain abilities. It doesn't get drained by actives. It doesn't get drained by things that actually need a 100% uptime, like elemental forms(which have their own downsides on each form anyways). It can even be set at, say, a flat 1000 per character regardless of level and given a rapid regeneration rate when it's not being actively drained by anything.
The sole purpose of this stat is to provide a third option between "mana drain" and "no upkeep cost whatsoever" for things like prowling, phase, and blackwind.
Sure, some classes may have no need for it, but right now, a lot of classes have no real major drains on endurance or willpower, either. I still think there's an important place in class design for abilities which have a limiting resource aside from mana.
"On the battlefield I am a god. I love war. The steel, the smell, the corpses. I wish there were more. On the first day I drove the Northmen back alone at the ford. Alone! On the second I carried the bridge! Me! Yesterday I climbed the Heroes! I love war! I… I wish it wasn’t over."
There's honestly a laundry list of abilities/skills/combinations that can un-prop a totem. The lack of using metawake and/or lack of using skills to disable the totem are not a justification to remove the totem. As it is now, propped totems are an important mechanic for dealing with superior numbers that lack skill (see: Anti-magick bandwagon). AM actually has the most ways to shut down a totem (even without a monk or 20,000 credits). Demonic and Magick can harry each other enough with their skills to keep totems down.
Hitting 30 people? I can see that. So can vibes/rites/strafe. They'll remain
Implanted totems are a pain in the ass and I'm 100% supportive of seeing them join the dodo.
I was iffy about removing totems at first, mostly cause love watching Juran track into my totem and die.
But, thinking about it more, I've decided that I am all for this change for one reason. It's not because implanted totems are ineffective(even if they largely are against serious raids). It's not because they present a defensive discrepancy between the circles(even though they always have).
No, the main reason I'd be glad to see totems go is so I will never ever have another cityleader whining at me to implant/uproot totems in the sewers.
Propped totems, I'm iffier about, but I've decided that I'm pretty cool with getting rid of them, too, because they just contribute to the fortress mentality of team combat. If we get rid of them, though, I would like to get a wedge-analogue, which I suppose will be a classlead project of mine this cycle.
"On the battlefield I am a god. I love war. The steel, the smell, the corpses. I wish there were more. On the first day I drove the Northmen back alone at the ford. Alone! On the second I carried the bridge! Me! Yesterday I climbed the Heroes! I love war! I… I wish it wasn’t over."
I have no comments on this pk business, but I'd like to see some flavor form of totems stick around at the very least. I have org/guild ideas that I think could be fun across both demonic/magick, and would even be fine seeing them go strictly as a crafting item.
I was iffy about removing totems at first, mostly cause love watching Juran track into my totem and die.
But, thinking about it more, I've decided that I am all for this change for one reason. It's not because implanted totems are ineffective(even if they largely are against serious raids). It's not because they present a defensive discrepancy between the circles(even though they always have).
No, the main reason I'd be glad to see totems go is so I will never ever have another cityleader whining at me to implant/uproot totems in the sewers.
Propped totems, I'm iffier about, but I've decided that I'm pretty cool with getting rid of them, too, because they just contribute to the fortress mentality of team combat. If we get rid of them, though, I would like to get a wedge-analogue, which I suppose will be a classlead project of mine this cycle.
Haha, it'd be nice to know in advance so we could classlead in totem replacements this round.
Hm. What would be the opinions about keeeping stood totems, but making them single target, wedge-style?
That's an option. It would keep it's purpose in 1v1 combat as well and still be used as a strategy to take out a "leader". Multiple wedge / multiple stood totems? Perhaps a limitation on the totem when it comes to the number of runes?
@Khizan: I like the idea behind this. Just has to be tested so it's realistic in terms of recovery / usage. Afterall, the idea shouldn't be that people could use the abilities less. So it has to be limited down to certain abilities using this "resilience" system. I am thinking "ticks" like tattoos draining X amount of resilience when active and having Y amount of resilience recovery as standard. I also think that with that change you can keep wp/end. And still greatly or even remove the WP drain on clotting, metawake and whatnot that has a stupid high drain. Mana-drain alone is enough to be dangerous in many situations.
Hm. What would be the opinions about keeeping stood totems, but making them single target, wedge-style?
I would be fine with this. Destroy implanted totems, make stood totems capable of being used to disable That One Guy you don't want to immediately see ride in swinging.
<div>Message #2062 Sent By: (imperian) Received On: 1/20/2018/2:59</div><div>"Antioch has filed a bounty against you. Reason: Raiding Antioch and stealing Bina, being a right</div><div>ass, and not belonging anywhere near Antioch till he grows up."</div>
Hm. What would be the opinions about keeeping stood totems, but making them single target, wedge-style?
I would be fine with this. Destroy implanted totems, make stood totems capable of being used to disable That One Guy CC/damage you don't want to immediately see ride in swinging.
<div>Message #2062 Sent By: (imperian) Received On: 1/20/2018/2:59</div><div>"Antioch has filed a bounty against you. Reason: Raiding Antioch and stealing Bina, being a right</div><div>ass, and not belonging anywhere near Antioch till he grows up."</div>
Most of this will have no impact beyond convenience, with one noteworthy exception - it will become possible to eat plants while entangled without having to maintain a supply of them out of the rift. I don't expect this to have noteworthy impact on any game mechanics that would be worth preserving, as the "pre-outrifting" option has always existed, but please do let me know if you can see any.
So what's stopping me from using a force ability to make someone give me all 4000 of their moonwort/stehl/etc?
Assuming anti-theft protocols are setup, would it be possible to make gold inriftable?
- anything that requires riftable items will automatically take them from the rift (no more OUTR first) as needed - the above will not work with forced commands
I do love how every fight we've had against Demonic for the past week has resulted in at least 1-2 new classleads that nerf our abilities. It's basically a timeline of team fights, just watching for things that have been submitted by Ahkan and company.
To be fair, AM has a 7 year head start of bad classleads and anti-demonic class leads. I think we've got a solid case of pot/kettle or rocks and glass houses. Though, admittedly, you've assumed the "needlessly buff my classes" hat recently. To be honest, you guys don't have the class or the sense of fair play to nerf your own classes (classlead list Juran/Aros) so someone has to step up to the plate and call a spade a spade.
79: Crush is pretty -redacted-. You've even said so. (Though now you won't fess up to it) 81: Sap is a logical argument that nerfs my already crappy class.
83 Everyone agrees Defiler sucks. This is a feeble attempt to fix it 134: Customization is a pretty standard classlead.
135 Same as 83 136: Everyone else seems to agree, even your dudes. 146: Universal upgrade 147: Universal upgrade (would actually be badass on outriders.
I yoinked the classleads that aren't AM specific nerfs. The rest of my classleads are ghostwritten and are all qol/defiler upgrades. 2/8. Overstatement, there you are! Demonic op/silver platter/bad player is so 2006.
Citations rock:
6 ) (2013/03/03 23:00) Khizan: "WD transfix will never, ever, never be balanced."
7 ) (2013/03/03 23:00) Khizan: "Never ever never never ever never."
8 ) (2013/03/03 23:00) Sarrius: "Then it needs to be deleted and Bind brought up to speed to make it useful for setting up a disembowel."
Comments
Implanted totems are an unfair advantage that should be removed for the sake of parity. I'm still on the fence about stood totems.
the claims are stated - it's the world I've created
That's why he's saying essentially things should be lowered. You shouldn't be able to have prowling up 24/7 when bashing. Just like I shouldn't be able to have up all perception defs all the time. Or monks shouldn't have up all all blocks all the time.
Some things are tradeoffs.
Totems are an interesting dynamic, because no matter what I'm doing I have to consider them. If I want to fight someone and there's a runeguard or wytch in the room, I have to disrupt the totem before I can engage or give up and accept about 10-15 seconds of disable before anyone in my group can attack.
Disabling without a wall can be done with beckon if you're faster than vortex, but if there's a wall in the way the only way to safely attack is to use multiple broad arrows or telepathy. Wedge and the basilisk traps are similar, but they're only one target and have much less of an impact on the fight.
the claims are stated - it's the world I've created
So let's make a new stat. I'll call it resilience, and it'll be nothing but a measure of your character's ability to sustain certain abilities. It doesn't get drained by actives. It doesn't get drained by things that actually need a 100% uptime, like elemental forms(which have their own downsides on each form anyways). It can even be set at, say, a flat 1000 per character regardless of level and given a rapid regeneration rate when it's not being actively drained by anything.
The sole purpose of this stat is to provide a third option between "mana drain" and "no upkeep cost whatsoever" for things like prowling, phase, and blackwind.
Sure, some classes may have no need for it, but right now, a lot of classes have no real major drains on endurance or willpower, either. I still think there's an important place in class design for abilities which have a limiting resource aside from mana.
"On the battlefield I am a god. I love war. The steel, the smell, the corpses. I wish there were more. On the first day I drove the Northmen back alone at the ford. Alone! On the second I carried the bridge! Me! Yesterday I climbed the Heroes! I love war! I… I wish it wasn’t over."
Rebalancing Telepathy should not be done with additional mana costs, monk uses quite enough mana as it is.
But, thinking about it more, I've decided that I am all for this change for one reason. It's not because implanted totems are ineffective(even if they largely are against serious raids). It's not because they present a defensive discrepancy between the circles(even though they always have).
No, the main reason I'd be glad to see totems go is so I will never ever have another cityleader whining at me to implant/uproot totems in the sewers.
Propped totems, I'm iffier about, but I've decided that I'm pretty cool with getting rid of them, too, because they just contribute to the fortress mentality of team combat. If we get rid of them, though, I would like to get a wedge-analogue, which I suppose will be a classlead project of mine this cycle.
"On the battlefield I am a god. I love war. The steel, the smell, the corpses. I wish there were more. On the first day I drove the Northmen back alone at the ford. Alone! On the second I carried the bridge! Me! Yesterday I climbed the Heroes! I love war! I… I wish it wasn’t over."
I would be fine with this. Destroy implanted totems, make stood totems capable of being used to disable That One Guy you don't want to immediately see ride in swinging.
Man, if I ever saw a post I loved to hate.
I'm cool with stood totems being single target as well.
- the above will not work with forced commands
79: Crush is pretty -redacted-. You've even said so. (Though now you won't fess up to it)
81: Sap is a logical argument that nerfs my already crappy class.
134: Customization is a pretty standard classlead.
136: Everyone else seems to agree, even your dudes.
146: Universal upgrade
147: Universal upgrade (would actually be badass on outriders.
I yoinked the classleads that aren't AM specific nerfs. The rest of my classleads are ghostwritten and are all qol/defiler upgrades. 2/8. Overstatement, there you are! Demonic op/silver platter/bad player is so 2006.