@Naruj then don't say "only 60%" as if it's no big deal. It's a huge deal.
First, I am fairly sure it's 66%.
Second, it's not a huge deal because there's a pretty good chance of escape there.
You walk in, you throw down piety/ghands, they immediately try to run.
~33% of the time, they get out on their first attempt.
~56% of the time, they get out by their second attempt. (.66*.66= .4356 chance to fail both moves, meaning ~%56 chance to escape.
0.66*0.66*0.66=0.287496 chance to fail three moves in a row. ~%71 chance to escape by three moves.
That, and also that this is all made fairly moot by the fact that there's a great deal of ways to escape from piety/gravehands, that do not work if you are shackled. It's a false equivalence.
I'd know, until very recently, my reaction to someone rolling up on me was to run, and you don't see very many deaths on DEATHS ANETTE, do you?
Who has the time to just chase someone around that doesn't actually want to fight?
Everyone. Failing that, that's what the bounty system is for. Failing -that-, assassinations. Failing -that- gank squads when the victim/target is out for a walk. Cause how dare you run from a fight.
Shackles were bad for combat because if I bring two friends and have five minutes to work something out there is noone in imperian past or present who isn't going to die. Its a licence for a free kill and that is dumb. There is no degree of quick reactions or smart play that is going to save a person in that situation. Personally I used to just doomworm because why bother.
Chains are actually (slightly) more balanced because 1 minute is somewhat more reasonable - this means if the people attacking you are incompetent you do have a shot at surviving. The problem is chains last too long - I have enough chain charges that I probably would not have ran out within 5 years of active play and I did not buy heavily into chain rewarding promotions. Shackles are a (very debatable) limited resource. Chains are a staple that superceeds every other hinder skill in the game.
Personally I'm opposed to mechanics like this in general though - I'm of the mind that you should have to exert some degree of effort to force someone into a fight that they have no mechanical recourse of evading. Its why I went out of my way to make greensharding me as miserable an experience as possible.
Making shackles/chains block exclusively special forms of travel is a superb solution, imo. It preserves the use against powerful artefact escapes (and skill escapes too, but that's probably fine) while meaning people will still be able to escape the situation if they play well.
The other thing chains do is give catch to classes that, for balance reasons, do not have much. You would never willingly give a strong inhibit to a monk or ranger, because limb classes are too intrinsically time bomb oriented to give that much lockdown to.
This amplifies how good classes like Bard and Shaman are at the expense of classes like Knight or Summoner. One of the counters to high burst classes should be the ability for prepared opponents to avoid that burst somehow.
You grabbed my hand and we fell into it Like a daydream.. or a fever
@Kyraic See the post about that type of logic. 66% is 66% every time, period. You are no more likely to get out on your third time than you were your first time.
EDIT: @Anette people don't hunt you because they don't care, not because they can't. Also I'm definitely down to hear this great list of escapes. I'll wait patiently while you give me a list of combat-viable ones.
@Kyraic See the post about that type of logic. 66% is 66% every time, period. You are no more likely to get out on your third time than you were your first time.
Correct, that's middle school statistics. But it's equally true that you're less likely to get into that situation 'from the start' with each additional iteration that you look at. This is the part that's important when analyzing game balance, or numbers in general really at the macro level. We do not need to know 'the next choice', we only need to know the average of choices over time.
You could also, theoretically, Crit every bashing attack you ever make but that isn't going to justify an argument that mob damage is too high.
You grabbed my hand and we fell into it Like a daydream.. or a fever
@Naruj Yes, yes. The point is that regardless it's still a more than decent percentage; everyone knows it and people are just blowing it off. It's not as if it isn't used with 1 to 3 other movement inhibiting moves at the same time any way.
It is a decent percentage when you only need to block one or two moves. Somebody who's willing to fight and so isn't going to try to run until things have gone south and they're already pretty messed up. Defensively, to buy you a few seconds when you need to run. That kind of thing.
However, it's damn near useless for holding somebody who is dedicated to running.
It is a decent percentage when you only need to block one or two moves. Somebody who's willing to fight and so isn't going to try to run until things have gone south and they're already pretty messed up. Defensively, to buy you a few seconds when you need to run. That kind of thing.
However, it's damn near useless for holding somebody who is dedicated to running.
If you're trying to hold someone and the only thing you're doing is piety/gravehands, then you are just bad.
It is a decent percentage when you only need to block one or two moves. Somebody who's willing to fight and so isn't going to try to run until things have gone south and they're already pretty messed up. Defensively, to buy you a few seconds when you need to run. That kind of thing.
However, it's damn near useless for holding somebody who is dedicated to running.
If you're trying to hold someone and the only thing you're doing is piety/gravehands, then you are just bad.
Afflictions and limb breaks don't count for these purposes because they have such a long buildup time. They're no use at catching somebody who doesn't want to fight.
It is a decent percentage when you only need to block one or two moves. Somebody who's willing to fight and so isn't going to try to run until things have gone south and they're already pretty messed up. Defensively, to buy you a few seconds when you need to run. That kind of thing.
However, it's damn near useless for holding somebody who is dedicated to running.
If you're trying to hold someone and the only thing you're doing is piety/gravehands, then you are just bad.
For good reason. That's why chains are dumb; classes that have no business getting hold skills get a fairly potent one.
<div>Message #2062 Sent By: (imperian) Received On: 1/20/2018/2:59</div><div>"Antioch has filed a bounty against you. Reason: Raiding Antioch and stealing Bina, being a right</div><div>ass, and not belonging anywhere near Antioch till he grows up."</div>
PK experience, +1 kill, belief/faith, anything they drop, delaying a full enemy regroup, the joy of murder, bragging rights.
Achievements.
Curran is the perfect example. She isn't a combatant; she doesn't want to fight. She comes to a shardfall, and I kill her. All the time. Like... relentlessly. Not because I want to brag about it, but because it gives me +1 kill toward 1,000 and PK experience toward the achievement for level 100. It also gives me shards she drops.
Does Curran cry and whine because I constantly kill her at shardfalls? No. She realizes that she is at a conflict event where she is open to PK, and she takes her death like a woman. Be Curran.
(Ring): Lartus says, "I heard Theophilus once threw a grenade and killed ten people." (Ring): Lartus says, "Then it exploded."
(Ring): Zsetsu says, "Everyone's playing checkers, but Theophilus is playing chess."
Comments
E: and also engaged.
I'd know, until very recently, my reaction to someone rolling up on me was to run, and you don't see very many deaths on DEATHS ANETTE, do you?
Failing that, that's what the bounty system is for. Failing -that-, assassinations. Failing -that- gank squads when the victim/target is out for a walk. Cause how dare you run from a fight.
Shackles were bad for combat because if I bring two friends and have five minutes to work something out there is noone in imperian past or present who isn't going to die. Its a licence for a free kill and that is dumb. There is no degree of quick reactions or smart play that is going to save a person in that situation. Personally I used to just doomworm because why bother.
Chains are actually (slightly) more balanced because 1 minute is somewhat more reasonable - this means if the people attacking you are incompetent you do have a shot at surviving. The problem is chains last too long - I have enough chain charges that I probably would not have ran out within 5 years of active play and I did not buy heavily into chain rewarding promotions. Shackles are a (very debatable) limited resource. Chains are a staple that superceeds every other hinder skill in the game.
Personally I'm opposed to mechanics like this in general though - I'm of the mind that you should have to exert some degree of effort to force someone into a fight that they have no mechanical recourse of evading. Its why I went out of my way to make greensharding me as miserable an experience as possible.
Making shackles/chains block exclusively special forms of travel is a superb solution, imo. It preserves the use against powerful artefact escapes (and skill escapes too, but that's probably fine) while meaning people will still be able to escape the situation if they play well.
This amplifies how good classes like Bard and Shaman are at the expense of classes like Knight or Summoner. One of the counters to high burst classes should be the ability for prepared opponents to avoid that burst somehow.
Like a daydream.. or a fever
EDIT: @Anette people don't hunt you because they don't care, not because they can't. Also I'm definitely down to hear this great list of escapes. I'll wait patiently while you give me a list of combat-viable ones.
You could also, theoretically, Crit every bashing attack you ever make but that isn't going to justify an argument that mob damage is too high.
Like a daydream.. or a fever
However, it's damn near useless for holding somebody who is dedicated to running.
Curran is the perfect example. She isn't a combatant; she doesn't want to fight. She comes to a shardfall, and I kill her. All the time. Like... relentlessly. Not because I want to brag about it, but because it gives me +1 kill toward 1,000 and PK experience toward the achievement for level 100. It also gives me shards she drops.
Does Curran cry and whine because I constantly kill her at shardfalls? No. She realizes that she is at a conflict event where she is open to PK, and she takes her death like a woman. Be Curran.
(Ring): Lartus says, "Then it exploded."
(Ring): Zsetsu says, "Everyone's playing checkers, but Theophilus is playing chess."
"You can no longer FLY out of ethereal shackles."
(Ring): Lartus says, "Then it exploded."
(Ring): Zsetsu says, "Everyone's playing checkers, but Theophilus is playing chess."