It was already on my shortlist for the next round of classleads, so my solutions in progress are
Solution 1: Increase faith cost to at least 60%, giving 1 use per faith bar normally and two with the ritual arti*. Solution 2: Mimic the new Aura ritual with recurring reflections instead of a reflection dump, at a faster speed given the difference between a reflection and a shield. Solution 3: Reduce and randomize the number of reflections to something like 2-5.
2 is probably my favorite solution path, since the reflection stack makes things weird.
* I'm assuming it reduces faith cost? It only said belief explicitly last I looked, and I don't know anyone with it offhand.
What about a 1 or 2 use cap with some sort of cooldown (something long enough to actually matter) after the cap it met, as well? I feel like a cooldown might be really key if one side is generally able to keep itself in faith better. It essentially forces both sides to operate with the same (more limited) resource.
EDIT: solution 1 is good yeah, or something like that. There should be a benefit for guys like me who have the arti, but I feel like the overall concern is that if the fights are going well for you already, reflection ritual kind of makes it go that much better (and worse for losing side, negative loop etc...), so there should be some sort of hard limit that is useful, but which does run out, for everyone.
What about a 1 or 2 use cap with some sort of cooldown (something long enough to actually matter) after the cap it met, as well? I feel like a cooldown might be really key if one side is generally able to keep itself in faith better. It essentially forces both sides to operate with the same (more limited) resource.
EDIT: solution 1 is good yeah, or something like that. There should be a benefit for guys like me who have the arti, but I feel like the overall concern is that if the fights are going well for you already, reflection ritual kind of makes it go that much better (and worse for losing side, negative loop etc...), so there should be some sort of hard limit that is useful, but which does run out, for everyone.
I think a cooldown would fix the issue of the winning team always being able to reflect, which to me is the biggest problem, since I always have to pick and choose when to use mine vs everyone else getting to throw it around like its nothing.
That's just how faith works, and multiple concurrent nerfs are rarely good IMO.
I mean, if you are saying, let's put in one piece, and see how well that works, that is fine. I feel like we could end up needing the other piece in this case just because of the dynamic I see, but it is not bad to do it one brick at a time. I do hope we do something, because all of the solutions I have thought of so far aren't great. Like having us all go Champ is actually possibly the worst idea ever, for example, for sooooo many reasons, despite theoretically denying endless faith.
Reflections are a bad mechanic in general, both in teams and one v one, because we don't have much of the historical counters anymore (mass passives). All for nerfs. They were on my list too.
That said, the champion strat doesn't work against champion teams, because you have two choices: deny faith or deny yourself starbursts. If the enemy team is champion and you get burst, you lose champ, then they get faith on the true kill. Slightly mitigates, but not really a solution (unless you're all inhumed or something).
EDIT: Going to also use this post to correct a term I used in my post in the other thread. I should have said "Full PK", not "Open PK". Open PK is similar, but applies to players, vs. areas.
I mean, any Champion can opt to make Demon's Pass open PK for up to 4 hours if they have 50 bones.. it's just that the last time a champion decided to do that, his name was @Septus ..
<div>Message #2062 Sent By: (imperian) Received On: 1/20/2018/2:59</div><div>"Antioch has filed a bounty against you. Reason: Raiding Antioch and stealing Bina, being a right</div><div>ass, and not belonging anywhere near Antioch till he grows up."</div>
I mean, any Champion can opt to make Demon's Pass open PK for up to 4 hours if they have 50 bones.. it's just that the last time a champion decided to do that, his name was @Septus ..
My goal isn't to have open PK in Demon's Pass. That's stupid. My goal is to own Demon's Pass.
You say, "This is much harder than just being a normal person."
Do plagues make it open? I thought it was just people attacking it.
Short answer? We're both right.
Long answer? That's as good as open to me. Also, if they attack your lesser plague minions, that's a declaration of intent to attack your plague. I know it is very much 'rules lawyer'-ing to do so, but this is the one system where I'll openly say I intend to do so, complete with IC posturing, villainous laughter in SHOUTs, etc. Somebody has to be a jerk about it. Combined with people's penchant for autobashing that area, they will probably kill parts of my plague by accident.. then you can just chew them up and spit them out. What're they gonna do, admit to likely (AFK)/low attention autobashing the area?
The cost of doing business? You WILL attract a team. It might be a team of autobashers. It might be a team of people wondering why you're stomping out the non-comm powerbashers of their circle. Nobody wants to deal with extra shit on top of Demon's Pass clots, nobody wants a weird unique area-wide malus during their PvE in a popular bashing area, etc.
<div>Message #2062 Sent By: (imperian) Received On: 1/20/2018/2:59</div><div>"Antioch has filed a bounty against you. Reason: Raiding Antioch and stealing Bina, being a right</div><div>ass, and not belonging anywhere near Antioch till he grows up."</div>
Comments
Solution 1: Increase faith cost to at least 60%, giving 1 use per faith bar normally and two with the ritual arti*.
Solution 2: Mimic the new Aura ritual with recurring reflections instead of a reflection dump, at a faster speed given the difference between a reflection and a shield.
Solution 3: Reduce and randomize the number of reflections to something like 2-5.
2 is probably my favorite solution path, since the reflection stack makes things weird.
* I'm assuming it reduces faith cost? It only said belief explicitly last I looked, and I don't know anyone with it offhand.
What about a 1 or 2 use cap with some sort of cooldown (something long enough to actually matter) after the cap it met, as well? I feel like a cooldown might be really key if one side is generally able to keep itself in faith better. It essentially forces both sides to operate with the same (more limited) resource.
EDIT: solution 1 is good yeah, or something like that. There should be a benefit for guys like me who have the arti, but I feel like the overall concern is that if the fights are going well for you already, reflection ritual kind of makes it go that much better (and worse for losing side, negative loop etc...), so there should be some sort of hard limit that is useful, but which does run out, for everyone.
Reflections are a bad mechanic in general, both in teams and one v one, because we don't have much of the historical counters anymore (mass passives). All for nerfs. They were on my list too.
That said, the champion strat doesn't work against champion teams, because you have two choices: deny faith or deny yourself starbursts. If the enemy team is champion and you get burst, you lose champ, then they get faith on the true kill. Slightly mitigates, but not really a solution (unless you're all inhumed or something).
edit: necro per @Aodan
EDIT: Going to also use this post to correct a term I used in my post in the other thread. I should have said "Full PK", not "Open PK". Open PK is similar, but applies to players, vs. areas.
My goal isn't to have open PK in Demon's Pass. That's stupid.
My goal is to own Demon's Pass.
Short answer? We're both right.
Long answer? That's as good as open to me. Also, if they attack your lesser plague minions, that's a declaration of intent to attack your plague. I know it is very much 'rules lawyer'-ing to do so, but this is the one system where I'll openly say I intend to do so, complete with IC posturing, villainous laughter in SHOUTs, etc. Somebody has to be a jerk about it. Combined with people's penchant for autobashing that area, they will probably kill parts of my plague by accident.. then you can just chew them up and spit them out. What're they gonna do, admit to likely (AFK)/low attention autobashing the area?
The cost of doing business? You WILL attract a team. It might be a team of autobashers. It might be a team of people wondering why you're stomping out the non-comm powerbashers of their circle. Nobody wants to deal with extra shit on top of Demon's Pass clots, nobody wants a weird unique area-wide malus during their PvE in a popular bashing area, etc.