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Improving Imerian Split: Relics and Affliction

EoghanEoghan
in New Ideas
This discussion was created from comments split from: Improving Imperian.
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Comments

  • IluvIluv
    Currently, the set of relics available, damage is heavily favored over afflictions. Defiance almost always benefits the damage dealer but Mayhem never benefits the affliction dealer.

    I would suggest the addition of a new relic.

    Name : Thinspiration (need suggestions here)
    Cooldown : Always active.
    Range : 0, 1, 3 rooms from the shrine.
    Effect : Herb balance is increased by 0.5 seconds in the room
  • JulesJules
    edited August 2016
    I understand Defiance shrines as often having a "standoff" intent. I thought the intention (often, but not necessarily always) was to move everyone OFF the shrine, so that the fight happens in a different room (a room that isn't fully prepped, for one, probably), although in many 1 v.1 or 2 v. 2, I am sure Septus/Khizan are happy to skewer people to death on top of shrine if they don't move.

    That said, I swear to god more often than not, the people sitting on the shrine are better off than we are, and are perfectly happy to sit on the damned thing, and we just go "dammit". And I have a feeling that's why (maybe) this kind of relic got the "okay", while I bet an aff thing was at least considered and the answer was probably "not a great idea".

    Because I doubt anyone is going to want to fight on top of that shrine you are suggesting against say, Iluv/Kabaal. It would be an incredible boon to circles with ansuz, too, which... I really wonder sometimes, why we have those damned things (Defiance shrines). I swear they bite US more than they bite the other side. I have the feeling the answer might even just be "lol, because they are AWESOME".
  • IluvIluv
    edited August 2016
    If no one wants to fight on a thinspiration shrine against an Iluv/Kabaal then it would be on par with no one wants to fight on a defiance shrine against Septus/Khizan.

    The intention of defiance has never been to move the fight from the room. The intention has always been make upfront damage win in that room.

    It is not a circle or ansuz issue either. AM affliction professions have just as much to gain.
  • JulesJules
    edited August 2016
    A couple of artied summoners would probably do just fine I would guess... But how many people can even get close to the kind of aff output (and aff healing denial) that an Iluv/Kabaal bring to the table even without a relic? And if your class(es) doesn't/don't have that kind of aff output, you can't buy "aff arties" (and I feel very, very sure that there is a reason for that too).
  • IluvIluv
    edited August 2016
    You can buy aff arties. Dart sheath, dirk and basilisk statue.

    If your class doesn't have the affliction output to match the person sitting on the shrine, you do what everyone does when they do not possess the tank to withstand the damage output of someone sitting on a defiance shrine.
  • JulesJules
    edited August 2016
    I imagine we'd range pressure you off the shrine in that case (or certainly try), which is something that happens with Defiance, too.

    I don't think AM has any professions that can pump out that level of affs, though. I just don't see it as something where it's nearly as easy to go "okay, bring out the super aff team". But now I really am at the limit of what I feel fairly confident saying. If someone else has more to add, they can go for it. I am just saying, I bet admin probably did at least fleetingly consider some kind of aff enhancing/cure denial relic, and decided against it (meanwhile, they DID put in a cure enhancing relic).

    EDIT: in the case of those arties, which I suppose are -sort- of aff arties, the class inevitably ends up balanced around THEM, as per Sevhn's proposal for something to enhance his aff speed with Summoner (and the subsequent disccussion about why that was probably a bad idea).
  • IluvIluv
    Templar/Outrider/Zerker teams can output afflictions on the same level as other circles.

    Septus(Templar)/Khizan(Outrider) has actually beaten an Iluv(Bard)/Claudius(Hunter) match up overwhelmingly.

    Again, it is not a circle issue. All circles have the same access to relics and shrines. All circles have access to both affliction and damage strategies.
  • JulesJules
    Did they beat you with sheer affs though? I am asking... and I imagine you or Septus could answer.
  • IluvIluv
    Affliction pressure with bleeding into bloodfreeze versus our affliction pressure into brainmelt or we resonance.
  • JulesJules
    edited August 2016
    Is the (effective) affs per second the same? I could see there being two things that both matter, and you did address one of them (meeting certain thresholds), but not the other.
  • IluvIluv
    edited August 2016
    What good would calculating that do for you? The important factors are all professions involved out afflict curing rates, both teams had access to passive curing, active curing and fitness.

    The biggest difference is their kill method relies on sticking one non-purgeable physical affliction with numerous buffers while our kill method relies on sticking numerous mental afflictions. They have decent upfront damage and we have poor upfront damage.
  • JulesJules
    I am guessing because I (probably) can't bloodfreeze you if I am locked up pretty hard, peaced, w/e. That's why it seemed worth at least asking.
  • IluvIluv
    I can't we or brainmelt you if I'm locked, peace or w/e either.
  • JulesJules
    edited August 2016
    Right, but if one team already does more affs in a general sense (possibly coming close to overwhelming even Septus level healing due to sheer output), and you then essentially increase everyone's "sheer output" even more, the side that puts out more affs benefits far more meaningfully (right? That is what seems to make sense there), which is why I asked.
  • IluvIluv
    No because

    The biggest difference is their kill method relies on sticking one non-purgeable physical affliction with numerous buffers while our kill method relies on sticking numerous mental afflictions. They have decent upfront damage and we have poor upfront damage.
  • JulesJules
    I am thinking less of the insta-kill itself, and more wondering "which side would be better able to hinder/peace/effectively shut down the other side".
  • IluvIluv
    The side that has better player skill and situational awareness.
  • JuranJuran Ohio
    Iluv said:

    You can buy aff arties. Dart sheath, dirk and basilisk statue.

    If your class doesn't have the affliction output to match the person sitting on the shrine, you do what everyone does when they do not possess the tank to withstand the damage output of someone sitting on a defiance shrine.

    The dirk is truly an affliction artifact (and is the worst artifact in the game). The dart sheath has been mitigated by successive nerfs to darts, and the statue is effectively just a percentile damage artifact for brainmelt. The first two shouldn't exist, you cannot balance a class between scaling afflictions and static cures.
  • IluvIluv
    The new relic doesn't increase the affliction rate of a single class like an artifact does anyways.
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