That's a horrible idea for the queue system. The queue system is a thing to be used cautiously when new. This would make it very easy for a new player to lock in an attack and become unable to run.
It's also problematic because of the amount of combo attacks in the game. If this system were on, I'd hit 'wisp;staff;root' while I was offbalance, and it would queue up 'root'. Same for Sabs, Runeguards, Bards(sketch/voice), wardancers, monks, etc, etc.
If an autoqueue system was to exist, it would need to be OFF by default.
"On the battlefield I am a god. I love war. The steel, the smell, the corpses. I wish there were more. On the first day I drove the Northmen back alone at the ford. Alone! On the second I carried the bridge! Me! Yesterday I climbed the Heroes! I love war! I… I wish it wasn’t over."
@Khizan What are the basic newbie attacks that require combos, and why doesn't the queue system allow for them? I guess I've been a bit spoiled by playing Bard/Druid, and not needing to worry about combos at all.
Also, I really don't see being able to send your command a few seconds earlier really being a big issue with "locking" newbies in place, any more than the balance recovery system already does.
@Khizan What are the basic newbie attacks that require combos, and why doesn't the queue system allow for them? I guess I've been a bit spoiled by playing Bard/Druid, and not needing to worry about combos at all.
Also, I really don't see being able to send your command a few seconds earlier really being a big issue with "locking" newbies in place, any more than the balance recovery system already does.
The entirety of Wardancer, Monk, Predator, to start with.
<div>Message #2062 Sent By: (imperian) Received On: 1/20/2018/2:59</div><div>"Antioch has filed a bounty against you. Reason: Raiding Antioch and stealing Bina, being a right</div><div>ass, and not belonging anywhere near Antioch till he grows up."</div>
Also, I really don't see being able to send your command a few seconds earlier really being a big issue with "locking" newbies in place, any more than the balance recovery system already does.
An example of newbies locking themselves into place would be. Hey I'm going to Slash this thing! Slash thing Slash thing again <- this command becomes queued for balance Thing hits(Holy crap it hurts) Thing hits again(Dear Gods help!) Recovered balance(Sweet, I can run away now! Except.. the Gods are dead.) Auto queued balance slashes thing again. Poor newbie dies.
Also the issue of combo classes getting no (or little) benefit has been brought up before, fairly recently even, on one of the forum threads. Most classes use combos in pvp now, if not for hunting. (Druid requires combos once you hit pvp, same with Hunter, Runeguard, Renegade. So at -least- four of the six magick classes.)
@Sarrius So those classes don't get any benefit from the queuing system? Why hasn't that been brought up before?
Because the queue system largely sucks anyways so why bother?
<div>Message #2062 Sent By: (imperian) Received On: 1/20/2018/2:59</div><div>"Antioch has filed a bounty against you. Reason: Raiding Antioch and stealing Bina, being a right</div><div>ass, and not belonging anywhere near Antioch till he grows up."</div>
@Garryn no, because the combo system given to predators explicitly doesn't allow toxins if the first hit isn't one that can deliver a toxin – if you want to raze or trip first, you have to manually envenom, then combo, oh wait, you can't stack queues.
I didn't remember or log to check and see if they had one when you can only queue one line for each of the three. I just wanted to make sure it didn't get overlooked if they implement a more complex queue system.
I know it's fun to hate on because it (for most people) sucks for PVP, but there are a few good uses I've found. Depending on your connection, you can speed your bashing up a little by having it use queueing. It makes cheesing hard mobs less dangerous. It's usually easy to implement in speeding up crafting, preserving, and other non-combat actions. A few cmud examples:
#ALIAS hp {search for plants\onbe harvest all plants}
Heh. Well, with Waterwalking shoes becoming a thing of the past, I'll be learning to Mount and likely to Quickmount before too long.
Also, I leave out the default on purpose. I like to use blank run as a quick QUEUE RESET ALL if I've queued something I don't want to do. I don't even usually use run with just a direction, it's generally RUN LEAP (dir) because block and walls are so common in shardfalls. The functionality you're looking for is in:
So before I get blasted for what I'm about to post, I want you all to know that I'm really just genuinely interested in hearing opinions from across the field on this matter.
What is your opinion on Devotion?
As a skill, it seems to be one of few remaining relics from an older conception of group combat. The passive, linear nature of Crystalism was one of the primary motivators for the upcoming replacement Mage, and with the release of those skills now on the horizon it seems like a poignant time to highlight the similarities between crystalism vibes and devotion rites. While there is room for argument on just how deep the parallels run, the fact remains that the core mechanic for both skills consists of firing everything up upon logging in, then converging the passives into the room during a fight and never looking at the skill again while it hits everyone in the room even after you leave.
While not as major, the damage shields in the skill also pose problems. They create an area of uncertainty in discussions on survivability between classes, similarly to bard songs before they were changed. Consequently, they either become unbalancing for classes which were designed without accounting for them, or another layer of preparation for every other class in the circle whch cannot be obtained with any degree of surety.
I just want to know what you guys think. Have I fundamentally misunderstood devotion, is it somehow salvageable in a way I haven't seen, or should it be one of the next skills headed for the chopping block? If so, what should priests get to fill the space that will be caused by its absence?
There's nothing wrong with linear skillsets. Have you played bard? Crystalism was a terrible passive skillset because there was no way for it to be useful while not being overpowered. Devotion doesn't have this problem. The only changes you could throw at devotion would be:
-Remove cleansing.
-Change devotion to gods to devotion to entities.
-Make rites decay 2-3x faster when the devotion user is not in room or adjacent.
Past that, devotion works pretty well as is. There's a laundry list of bad skills that should be in queue before it.
@Kalon Isn't there a way of offering equally meaningful supportive abilities to every circle to achieve a more balanced result, rather than simply taking it all away? I don't disagree with your point, but if Imperian is targeted too much at only one or two player types then surely it risks becoming even more of a niche IRE game that struggles to retain a broad and diverse playerbase.
Personally, as a mostly PvE focused scrub, old-school priest remains one of my favourite collections of skillsets. Yes, I'm sure it was terribly overpowered or underpowered in duels, but balance isn't the only thing that makes a game fun. I loved the blessings, healing options and protective/advancement buffs that were useful generally without having to be a top-tier PvP combatant. I'm more than a little disappointed Magick doesn't have much in the way of similar heavily support-oriented characters, even little things like additional resurrect/XP restoring classes (let me use my beloved Rivensense!).
There's nothing wrong with linear skillsets. Have you played bard? Crystalism was a terrible passive skillset because there was no way for it to be useful while not being overpowered. Devotion doesn't have this problem. The only changes you could throw at devotion would be:
-Remove cleansing.
-Change devotion to gods to devotion to entities.
-Make rites decay 2-3x faster when the devotion user is not in room or adjacent.
Past that, devotion works pretty well as is. There's a laundry list of bad skills that should be in queue before it.
1) I agree, or at least making it only hit things that are trivial to put back up. To my knowledge it's the last passive def strip in the game and most of the defs it strips don't even offer any benefit to the devotioner, making them nothing but a costly pain to put back up after the fight is over.
2) Is a flavor change and probably could be done in TYPO.
3) I'd much prefer rites automatically enter the 'pause' mode that they already have coded if the devotioner leaves, since just ticking down faster won't stop the corridor of piety or other similar gimmicks from being any less obnoxious, it just means they'll have to replaced more often.
Surprised there was no comment on the spiritshields/bliss point given everything we heard about runes and songs. I'll maybe concede that Devotion isn't top of the list when the professions that use it are at least still playable, but I definitely think there is strong established precedent for destroying passive AoE in all of its forms; it takes no skill to direct and has incredibly high scaling on its usefulness in larger group combat.
I'm more than a little disappointed Magick doesn't have much in the way of similar heavily support-oriented characters, even little things like additional resurrect/XP restoring classes (let me use my beloved Rivensense!).
Actually, there was a point in time that Magick did have this, in pre-nerf Thespia. Bards could drop half a dozen songs on their teammates and send them on their merry way with increased stats, curing, damage resistance, and flight. However, it was removed because skills like that end up posing a big problem when you're trying to talk about a class' ability to not die. When you wanted to talk about how tanky druid was, for instance, you had two choices: either you could assume that they had songs on 100% of the time (which was inaccurate), or you could assume that they never had songs on (and then when they did they would be unkillable). There were many forum tears until Bard songs were changed to only affect allies still in the room with the bard, but the strange thing is that this line of thinking was never extended out to their neighbors in the south.
Uh. I'm not sure what you're calling "high scaling usefulness"
Piety, Condemnation, Allsight...maybe convocation. You must be thinking of a different skillset. Spiritshields are widely accepted as AM's answer to runes. Prayers are on par with other circle's stat bonuses.
If you're trying to whine about AM, you're aiming in the wrong direction.
Edit: I left cleansing out on purpose. 99.8% of the game knows this skill needs to die. We just won't commit to killing it.
Songs were problematic because they stacked with runes, and everybody can still use runes. The change was that now they don't have an effect unless the Bard is actually in the group, in which case you can splash the Bard and remove their effects. Spiritshields are AM runes, not AM songs.
Please learn what you are talking about before you start talking about things.
"On the battlefield I am a god. I love war. The steel, the smell, the corpses. I wish there were more. On the first day I drove the Northmen back alone at the ford. Alone! On the second I carried the bridge! Me! Yesterday I climbed the Heroes! I love war! I… I wish it wasn’t over."
Enryk was never saying that new priests aren't support-oriented. His complaint was that magick has no clear analogue to priests that fill the support role. This builds off the discussion he started a few weeks ago asking about what class he should switch to when he wanted to convert to the magick circle, when he said that he wasn't big on PvP but liked having the ability to support people who did.
I can see the argument that blessings provide the same level of support as runes; mechanically they are much more similar to songs, which is why I initially drew that connection. However, I'm in favor of removing cross-profession runes, as well -- they are a pain to get sketched every two hours as a non-runelorist and they take up design space with an assumed benefit that may or may not actually exist.
Minor QoL: Allow a player with an appointed clan position to see their own clan privileges even if they do not have access to the exec_summary privilege.
@Garryn no, because the combo system given to predators explicitly doesn't allow toxins if the first hit isn't one that can deliver a toxin – if you want to raze or trip first, you have to manually envenom, then combo, oh wait, you can't stack queues.
Actual queue stacking would be better, but: QUEUE EQBAL ENVENOM blah WITH blah; QUEUE BAL COMBO (combo) works if you're only using balance. Which, you are most of the time as Predator.
Actual queue stacking would be better, but: QUEUE EQBAL ENVENOM blah WITH blah; QUEUE BAL COMBO (combo) works if you're only using balance. Which, you are most of the time as Predator.
No, because then I get knocked off eq and it sends the combo, which fails, of course.
Give Lycaeans a "bite" attack that does the same thing as punch, or at level 50 give them the bite attack the old wolf bond has. Come on, it only makes sense.
Comments
"On the battlefield I am a god. I love war. The steel, the smell, the corpses. I wish there were more. On the first day I drove the Northmen back alone at the ford. Alone! On the second I carried the bridge! Me! Yesterday I climbed the Heroes! I love war! I… I wish it wasn’t over."
Also, I really don't see being able to send your command a few seconds earlier really being a big issue with "locking" newbies in place, any more than the balance recovery system already does.
The entirety of Wardancer, Monk, Predator, to start with.
An example of newbies locking themselves into place would be.
Hey I'm going to Slash this thing!
Slash thing
Slash thing again <- this command becomes queued for balance
Thing hits(Holy crap it hurts)
Thing hits again(Dear Gods help!)
Recovered balance(Sweet, I can run away now! Except.. the Gods are dead.)
Auto queued balance slashes thing again.
Poor newbie dies.
Also the issue of combo classes getting no (or little) benefit has been brought up before, fairly recently even, on one of the forum threads. Most classes use combos in pvp now, if not for hunting. (Druid requires combos once you hit pvp, same with Hunter, Runeguard, Renegade. So at -least- four of the six magick classes.)
@Menoch: QUEUE RESET <queue type> is a thing.
the claims are stated - it's the world I've created
ETA: Also, I'd add a default to your run alias. Something like
the claims are stated - it's the world I've created
Also, I leave out the default on purpose. I like to use blank run as a quick QUEUE RESET ALL if I've queued something I don't want to do. I don't even usually use run with just a direction, it's generally RUN LEAP (dir) because block and walls are so common in shardfalls. The functionality you're looking for is in:
Past that, devotion works pretty well as is. There's a laundry list of bad skills that should be in queue before it.
Actually, there was a point in time that Magick did have this, in pre-nerf Thespia. Bards could drop half a dozen songs on their teammates and send them on their merry way with increased stats, curing, damage resistance, and flight. However, it was removed because skills like that end up posing a big problem when you're trying to talk about a class' ability to not die. When you wanted to talk about how tanky druid was, for instance, you had two choices: either you could assume that they had songs on 100% of the time (which was inaccurate), or you could assume that they never had songs on (and then when they did they would be unkillable). There were many forum tears until Bard songs were changed to only affect allies still in the room with the bard, but the strange thing is that this line of thinking was never extended out to their neighbors in the south.
Spiritshields are widely accepted as AM's answer to runes.
Prayers are on par with other circle's stat bonuses.
@Enryk
Balance may not be the only thing that makes a game fun, but lack of balance is definitely one of the things that can make a game less fun.
Old school priests were problematic because they were practically immune to afflictions, which made killing them next to impossible for many classes.
Anyways, new clerics are just as supporty as the old clerics, really. Same hands, same shields, same rites, and now they have prayers.
@Kalon
Songs were problematic because they stacked with runes, and everybody can still use runes. The change was that now they don't have an effect unless the Bard is actually in the group, in which case you can splash the Bard and remove their effects. Spiritshields are AM runes, not AM songs.
Please learn what you are talking about before you start talking about things.
"On the battlefield I am a god. I love war. The steel, the smell, the corpses. I wish there were more. On the first day I drove the Northmen back alone at the ford. Alone! On the second I carried the bridge! Me! Yesterday I climbed the Heroes! I love war! I… I wish it wasn’t over."
In fact, removing character limits entirely would make me happy - I'm paying to customize it, after all.
the claims are stated - it's the world I've created
No, because then I get knocked off eq and it sends the combo, which fails, of course.