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PVP buy-in and inclusion

Hey All,

Recently awoke from slumber, or whatever other term you want to use, and logged into Bellentine, on the tail end of the event.  It looked neat and had the populace engaged, from what I can see.  And so this got me interested in returning.  I look and see something about being eligible for a tasty bunch of credits at a low price (nice advertising) and I look at my skills and see there's one at inept that has some neat stuff in it, and its largely PVP.  I remember fondly my time as a mage and think "Hey, this could be cool!"

And then I sit and bash a bit, and the realm is largely silent on the PVP front - perhaps its the hangover from such a large event, but it got me thinking - what is there left to fight over?  I'm here ready to drop some cash and shed some blood, but over what?  What is there that will allow players to buy-in, without facing too much of a negative?  Champions and what not is a nice idea, but you're essentially opening yourself up to endless griefing from those far more powerful.  What is there that can happen between the circles that less experienced individuals go up against the juggernauts?

Shards seem to be much of a muchness, obelisks seem to hold a certain equilibrium, and with an alliance between two circles, the realms are in a dichotomy - some would argue this is well overdue.  But... where's the fight?  Is there a way to construct a struggle that allows individuals to participate, without city-states being destroyed for a lack of participation.  This isn't about raiding (though that was an interesting discussion), but there has to be something to get people moving.  

I understand that for some people, this realm is Civil Servant Simulator 2016, and that's cool.  Those who wish to fight will gravitate away from those roles, and into places that have some biffo - see Antioch.  But with this cline of involvement, the now-two spheres end up playing two different games.

I want a rallying cry to go out and for the gates to the city to be flung open, and charge down OBJECTIVE X and die in seconds, or hear the horns go and charge to the next location.  I'm being nostalgic without doubt, but I think this is a sentiment reverberating amongst others.



  • Its weird replying to my own thread.  But some thoughts I had while staring out the window.
    - Anything gained from the combat (event) should be temporary and reset, to ensure there's no absolute cline in the combat field.  
    - Anything gained from the combat (rather than straight up glory - blood for the blood god) should be minor, but measurable.  But, given the right circumstances, people will fight over a half-eaten bagel, especially if its from Timmy's.
    - Non participation needs to be a viable alternative.

    So, some ideas.
    1) Team based arena league, teams of 3 or 5, any circle.  This is straight up go out and kill in an arena.  Have it be no cost, come at any time, just announce you'd like to play and organise a team - go murder.  Think of it as CS:GO for the everyman.  Many players have friends in other circles, or that they're comfortable with, let the circle stuff be set aside for this.  Could make for some curious combat combinations though...
    2) Open contest zone with a prize inside.  I've got nothing more on this, other than shards and underworld already tried this
    3) City-based object which can be captured.  Have the mcguffin outside the city, but in its influence (you know the spot) and have it able to be 'captured' and moved at a set rate when the room it is in is uncontested by either side.  Glorious tug of war.  See next.
    4) Allow mechanics to formally recognise treaty states.  So, in the current situation, players from Demonic can act as agents for Magick, for whatever contest is allowed.  This would make 3 more effective perhaps?
    5) Shoot for the moon.  Event Shabadoo happens and allows transit to the fractured moon (pick your section) and on there you harvest/combat/ally or whatever.  Create a new shard tree to allow faster transit to the moon, or whatever, but everyone has to be able to participate.  Do not gate participation behind combat prowess.  

    The idea in all this is to get people from the "Oh, I used to fight once/I'm curious about pvp/Gee it would be great if I could kill someone" to actually putting the weapon into someone's gizzards.  It's a visceral experience to have one's skill tested and occasionally succeed.  A framework for this needs to be constructed - otherwise why are we here and not one of the other Mud's, especially now that characters can be retired.

    I don't want to play Papershuffler 2016 anymore.

  • I don't know Bellentine but I am more than willing to come run around with you on my terrible little RG... 
  • edited February 2016

    The issue now is that all the PvPers have moved to Antioch, basically, because Antioch is the only organization who actively looks for chances to PvP. When we're looking at an event like the Shade event, or like Urzog, or anything like that, Antioch is the only organization that says "Hey maybe we shouldn't all team up, maybe we should fight against this."

    Personally, I'm just not willing to switch circles when it means I could end up getting stuck on the "no conflict" side of the next event.

    I think that part of this is just because of bad event design on the part of @Jeremy and the Garden, in that we get events like "Help Tomas, or help the Shade". While I liked that event and thought that it was fun, it does have some definite problems with the design.

    1. There's two options divided between three circles so that's immediately a negative in my book.
    2. The choices were "Help save the world from Legion" or "Help Legion because an untrustworthy shade is promising you ultimate power". This is basically a choice between "not being an idiot" and "cartoon supervillainy" and it kind of feels like they don't understand their playerbase, because cartoon supevillainy is a motivation that only applies to Antioch right now, and then only because we're willing to throw RP to the winds for the sake of glorious battle.
    3. There was no partial victory for the Tomas faction. Their early victories were wiped out by our eventual win, because the imprisoned plagues were busted out of jail at the conclusion.

    I think that better event design with 3 or more possible sides would result in a better PvP environment because smaller factions could fight between themselves without always having to face the dominant power, especially if there was an obelisk-style way to instance out a battle and prevent other event factions from butting in. 

    "On the battlefield I am a god. I love war. The steel, the smell, the corpses. I wish there were more. On the first day I drove the Northmen back alone at the ford. Alone! On the second I carried the bridge! Me! Yesterday I climbed the Heroes! I love war! I… I wish it wasn’t over."

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