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Obelisks.

SiathSiath Member Posts: 64 ✭✭✭
edited March 2015 in New Ideas

After some discussion with various people I realized that nobody really likes the current "Obelisk-system" and thought it would be a good idea to see what could be done about it. Basically this is the main complains I've come across about the current obelisk system:

1: 60 (even the "none opposition" timer is to long) min is to long for capturing.

2: Outposts makes it clunky and requires multiple attempts of capturing which is already taking to long.

3: Lacking energy for crafting a bomb when you finally have enough people to fight for one.

4: Something something (we completed all researches already and there is shard attunement) effort with the entire thing..

First off, the timers for capturing the obelisks could be lowered into something like 15 min. 15 min seems like a decent amount of time, long enough to allow a defence and short enough to allow people to join it without feeling bored.

Secondly, outposts does makes it boring, imo, but this is also because of the points mentioned above. One idea I've thought about is to replace outposts with protections that costs resources (I'll get back to that). I.E: Look at how long AM held the truesight obelisk.

Thirdly, hardcaps like generator-energy required to craft chargebombs are not fun. Instead we should move towards being able to use resources / gold in order to launch an obelisk attack when you gather enough people willing to do it.

Finally, almost all circles have completed all researches involving obelisks and with the amounts of shards present it became more or less pointless to really work for them. 

Upkeep/Costs:

To maintain an obelisk at this point requires corpses that you put in the city generator for energy. It takes little effort (considering the amounts of PvE-people out there) and it doesn't help with draining resources. I believe that draining resources is necessary to keep the system interesting, i.e shard researches and now lately the caravans. 
The biggest error with the systems brought in is that they are "learn and forget" systems. Everything is there to make it sustainable but for some reason we have permanent things without upkeep -> Cities finish their stuff and then horde resources until something new is released and finish that off in a week or two (like how its been with AM to be honest). 

Obelisks should cost an upkeep in terms of resources we have available at this point. It could be shards / quartz / gold (npc corpses is not a good enough one). It could be a IG year cost or IG monthly cost. 

Spending resources for buffs/debuffs:

Outposts could be deleted and replaced with different protections that you can purchase with shards/quartz/gold and instead of "complete block of capturing" be less impacting. This is brainstorming but I find it kinda awesome if it would be possible to purchase buffs/debuffs that's active on the island that is currently attacked. Ex: Gravity: Give all attackers the slow movement debuff, and so on and so forth, the idea would be that the defenders even though perhaps smaller in numbers could spend resources / gold to buff their team into defending. 


Summary:

Obelisks are awesome in theory, not that awesome in practice.

1) Make obelisk-capturing way faster. 15min should be enough if no opposition.

2) Add an upkeep cost that matters and either remove or keep the current one. 

3) Remove the outpost system and replace it with protections/buffs that can be purchased with resources (gold/shards/quartz).

4) Rework chargebombs into being craftable with resources rather than generator energy.

If you had the patience to read this far, awesome! Thoughts/ideas?


Comments

  • SiathSiath Member Posts: 64 ✭✭✭
    To prevent constant takeovers perhaps an cooldown on X min upon capture should work on that obelisk? This would also allow the captures to benefit the obelisk-powers long enough for a caravan/shardfall etc without losing it instantly when a bigger team logs in right after it.
  • SeptusSeptus Member, Beta Testers Posts: 781 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I think one of the big issues with the current system is the optimal way to capture obelisks is not to pk. You're best off hitting an obelisk when noone is around. Fixing that in the current incarnation is pretty hard.
    JulesCassius
  • JulesJules Member Posts: 1,080 ✭✭✭
    Obelisks have stagnated lately and it makes me sad.  At least everyone has two, and that's better than one faction having most of them.  But yeah, we're not fighting over them much :(  

    Even as a relatively casual player I don't mind the battle timeline though - in fact, I'm usually sad when the obelisk fight is over.  Also, it does seem tactically best to take them when there's minimal opposition, as Septus says, which is unfortunate.  

    I'd be all for the buffs from obelisks being... well, something very close to absolutely meaningless.  An engraved stick of chewing gum works.  We want something to fight over, not to semi-permanently give buffs to whatever side is already winning.  Lots of gamers don't understand this idea, but I've seen that Imperianites seem to.  And that would allow us to make obelisks a lot more vulnerable a lot more often (just not so often that people actually get worn out and say screw it).  


    Also, maybe this could be an opportunity to put something in for those "small, elite teams".  As in, to start an obelisk fight, you'd have to bring a small assault team to attack the obelisk, and the other side could bring the same amount of players to counter them.  That would be like... phase one.  If your defenders lost, phase two would start and all the rest of us derps would come play.  
  • SeptusSeptus Member, Beta Testers Posts: 781 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Well, the danger there is exclusivity (you will always see the same guys in the phase 1 teams) and the fact that you kind of punish them for winning. Take out the unholy templar/templar/templar/templar combo or summoner/summoner/summoner/summoner? Sucks for you, they're coming back but with ten other guys, etc.
    Jules
  • JulesJules Member Posts: 1,080 ✭✭✭
    edited March 2015
    That's true (because if the defenders win, they also shut down the obelisk fight).  I'm okay with some "exclusive" PK events in general, because I know you top tier guys are sort of champing at the bit for those opportunities, and when it's presented this way I don't have to wonder "hmm, I wonder if they need more people or not".  Also, the people who tend to just zerg in without getting a feel for whether it's that kind of fight or not/what the other side's force looks like would also get an unambiguous message.   
    Post edited by Jules on
  • IniarIniar AustraliaMember Posts: 3,213 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I'm surprised you guys let us keep Moradeim.
    wit beyond measure is a Sidhe's greatest treasure
  • SeptusSeptus Member, Beta Testers Posts: 781 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Like 90% of our circle has devotion. No need for moradeim when you have pilg!
  • CassiusCassius Member, Beta Testers Posts: 607 ✭✭✭
    edited March 2015
    Septus said:

    Like 90% of our circle has devotion. No need for moradeim when you have pilg!

    Or the real reason....Septus doesn't need it (track pet/mask/raksha/etc/etc) and there is no one else willing to go after it. :)
  • JulesJules Member Posts: 1,080 ✭✭✭
    That's an Imperian given... I mean, every circle has a few combat leaders, and those people do the leading.  
  • IniarIniar AustraliaMember Posts: 3,213 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Septus said:

    Like 90% of our circle has devotion. No need for moradeim when you have pilg!

    I hate you. :(
    wit beyond measure is a Sidhe's greatest treasure
  • RahielRahiel Member Posts: 51 ✭✭
    More like it's not worth the upkeep. The most important are True Sight and Efficiency.
  • IniarIniar AustraliaMember Posts: 3,213 ✭✭✭✭✭
    More like, @Septus feels sorry for us and didn't lead a counterstrike.
    wit beyond measure is a Sidhe's greatest treasure
  • RahielRahiel Member Posts: 51 ✭✭
    Iniar said:

    More like, @Septus feels sorry for us and didn't lead a counterstrike.

    I'm fairly sure that sympathy doesn't exist in @Septus' vocabulary.

    Same with mercy, pity, or kumquat.
  • KabaalKabaal Member Posts: 303 ✭✭✭
    Just a random pewpew idea.

    Chargebomb changes:

    Global obeliskreport message with name of person holding the bomb when activated.
    30 minutes of time on island to charge.
    Dropped on death.
    Can be picked up and reactivated with a channeled action.
    Double the charge rate if in the Obelisk, to 15 minutes minimum.
    Disruptor fork effect.

    The goal of the defenders would be to defuse the bomb with a long channeled action that requires that the bomb be on the ground.



    Essentially, it would turn Obelisks into an Oddball game. I dunno about the other stuff, but I think making the fights themselves something different and unique would greatly help any changes in the other portions.


    I'd also like to see special effects on the chargebomb based on the obelisk (the energies mix or some RP raisin). These are just shoddy examples.
    Sukhder - Increases health and mana by 10x+, increase resists by 25%, and prevents all health regeneration.
    Moradeim - Randomly swaps hands between same circle members with a message to those in the area or with obeliskreport up.
    Aryana - Everyone who dies is revived on the island in 1m.
    True Sight - Everyone can PATH FIND to the holder as if alli
    Efficiency - It charges faster! But the holder can't move.
    Nature - The double charge bonus shifts every 5 minutes for the bomb.
    ____________________

    Also, it's weird to me that you can enter and exit to every room directly in the outposts and obelisks.
  • SiathSiath Member Posts: 64 ✭✭✭
    edited April 2015
    Septus said:

    I think one of the big issues with the current system is the optimal way to capture obelisks is not to pk. You're best off hitting an obelisk when noone is around. Fixing that in the current incarnation is pretty hard.




    While this is correct I do believe that it is the flipside of the points I raised. Why is it the optimal way to capture the obelisk? Basically because the stopped timer / slower timer will at times be enough for some people to realize they don't have time for it. Equally you can more or less always capture an obelisk if you have X amount of players around at a decent time just because the fact that your circle is currently the largest (basically this is why I wanted some kind of buff/debuff system for funs). What I am after here is trying to move away from learn / capture and forget. Also, we need more ways of draining resources so that we somewhere get a system that is not so permanent..

    It is a bit tricky with the buffs from obelisks because they are so tied up with the shard-bonuses and attunement really makes it so much easier to just spend those 10blue/1red to get the full effect for 1 hour @Jules.

    Post edited by Siath on
  • KhizanKhizan Member Posts: 2,648 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Siath said:

    Why is it the optimal way to capture the obelisk? 

    The optimal time to do <thing> is always going to be a time at which there's nobody around to stop you from doing it. Short of making imbalanced attacks impossible there is no possible way to change this.

    "On the battlefield I am a god. I love war. The steel, the smell, the corpses. I wish there were more. On the first day I drove the Northmen back alone at the ford. Alone! On the second I carried the bridge! Me! Yesterday I climbed the Heroes! I love war! I… I wish it wasn’t over."

  • SiathSiath Member Posts: 64 ✭✭✭
    edited April 2015

    I agree @Khizan, which is why I think that if there is no good way to solve the overlaying problem with obelisks at the moment then what harm could more obelisk-swapping do (faster capture and none outpost protections)? At best it would bring some more conflict in terms of bounties or whatnot, perhaps it could find the way to some small-scale battles. In general it wouldn't solve the mechanism but it could perhaps work as a "hotfix" to make things move a bit?

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