I'm leaning towards the fact that, more often than not, when a fight happens, more than 50% of the CWHO of Khandava and Stavenn horde in, even relative no-names like me.
On the other hand, twelve hours or so ago, Juran/Khizan/Ashakai were felling trees in Celidon. I was in my Celidon alt, and CWHO showed 8 people. No one came to defend.
The context of Mathiaus complaint is that he's having trouble killing Iroth 1v1. Iroth has +3 con, +3 bracelets, +3 sip ring, intelligent statpack, favoured, and comes in at a modest 793 health. Mathiaus can't damage me down from 480 with level 2s.
Bard is gimpy. I swear if Mathiaus with his artifacts tried damage Mage, he'd have a lot more #inyourface kills, including Iroth and his Avasyu-level health. Less tanky without Spoony, sure, but all that burning.
Tbh, I'm summoner because I pull 50dps bashing. I never pk'd in Summoner because everyone else did. It's noteworthy to the point of Khizan and Juran remarked on me pking in Summoner. There's also amazing utility like universe, priestess (should be your complaint, not palpatar), istria, empress. Wysrias talked me into pking with it and it's sort of fun.
Summoners are pretty good classes the same reason you have a lot of druids and bards. They do straight up damage with affliction support. Like bards, they do non-physical damage which means they bypass evasion, racials, armor, shields, and surcoats. It's not our fault you guys don't learn thermology or buy fire rings or use fire etchings. Khizan has been pretty vocal in convincing people to go Summoner. People listen to him. We've tried to convince you to have more druids. You told us we were idiots and pooheads. Assassin is also pretty amazing at dumbing dps on people. Wytchen if played right is solid on the non-phys-dps front too. Hey, I've killed you as both of these. Magick has bard, hunter, mage as non-phys. Seems legit to me.
Our front line summoner line up is: Eldreth (who always loves damage, damage, damage), Wysrias** (he got it because it was a new class), Khizan**, Mereis, Ladaia, Ahkan*****, Juran***, Iniar*****, Iluv*****, Iroth***.
* denotes people who have frequently pk'd in other classes and the number of classes they've also pk'd in (all have killed you in them)
The point being, most of these people kill you in whatever class they are in at the time. It's not the class. Summoner is good, no lie. Summoner is too good in some respects. You're no where near qualified enough to weigh in on what is or isn't balanced for summoner.
High damaging, fast balance? What do you even mean? Summoner's fastest offensive balance ability is 2.6 seconds. And that requires fast statpack. And when using it it halves the damage of your attacks.
Now, if you're talking about eq abilities, Summoner's eq abilities are very similar in speed to Bard.
Now Bard's damage outclasses Summoner both in sustained dps and burst dps but the problem right now is that Bard's burst dps is harder to achieve with faulty We voice aff conditions and also the fact that you are the only one playing Bard and you are most likely not managing your resonance right. Every one of our Summoners knows how to use taint well and they don't fall into the pitfalls like strenghten or haste or using infuse because we have lots of experienced Summoners giving them advice.
Palpatar is nowhere near as suck as trying to 1v1 damage rape a tanky summoner who knows about unleash arctar and fling priestess.
God. Bard is a tanky mofo too.
But I'd honestly like to see Khizan/Juran/Wysrias pk as Bard. I'm honestly uncertain what the results will be.
Also, comparing Summoner to Bard/Mage - our afflictions are actually bottlenecked by tarot, that is our +b (which means choosing between Fast or Intelligent (( or if you're me, bastardise into Clever for versatility)) ). Bard and Mage don't have this problem, their affs are completely tied to +eq.
I'm going to be real, all of you know if I went after damage, it'd be shot down, since no one else seems to think to classlead against summoner dps against a player. No reason for me to go after Tarot either. A summoner, little or big, can outpace healing greatly by only using damaging attacks to build up taint and just use quicken.
Palpatar was the only small thing I have a remote (but not good) chance of having changed even slightly, cause everyone's mindset except Iniar is that everyone else is wrong 100% of the time and blame the other person involved no matter what.
Even the little bit I've used mage I've seen how much more dps there is in the class compared to bard. Bard is all about building up burst around afflictions. It blows damaging down higher healthed people cause of resonance, no matter what build the person may have.
I have more than done my fair share of pushing away the inconsistencies and over powering abilities of bard constantly. I'd like someone with summoner to actually step up and do the same for there own class as of recent.
I'm going to be real, all of you know if I went after damage, it'd be shot down, since no one else seems to think to classlead against summoner dps against a player. No reason for me to go after Tarot either. A summoner, little or big, can outpace healing greatly by only using damaging attacks to build up taint and just use quicken.
Palpatar was the only small thing I have a remote (but not good) chance of having changed even slightly, cause everyone's mindset except Iniar is that everyone else is wrong 100% of the time and blame the other person involved no matter what.
Even the little bit I've used mage I've seen how much more dps there is in the class compared to bard. Bard is all about building up burst around afflictions. It blows damaging down higher healthed people cause of resonance, no matter what build the person may have.
I have more than done my fair share of pushing away the inconsistencies and over powering abilities of bard constantly. I'd like someone with summoner to actually step up and do the same for there own class as of recent.
I think the reason nobody is classleading it is because the damage is pretty comparable to other high damage classes. For instance, I do 120 magick damage to myself with quicken, which you're claiming is good enough on its own to outpace healing.
<417/610h 533/670m 1B 0> <-b b> Mathiaus charged his crystal. Mathiaus is using loneliness. Mathiaus raises his hand and you scream in pain as blood boils in your veins, causing your entire body to redden and hurt all over. H -156f [25.6%] [150] aff+ attuned to fire Your attunements : 1 1 1 1 Mathiaus cast batter at you. H -61 [10.0%] [52] <200/610h 533/670m 1B 0> <-b b>
If that damage is over the top, what is this? Considering that's fire damage you're doing (which I have higher resistance to), and I'm at level 1 fire attunement there (meaning it could scale even higher over time). I understand crystal charges are limited, but the major damage unleash (golgotha) has a 40 second cooldown, meaning you're using it at 1/5th the frequency of consuming a crystal charge to amplify damage. I'm not arguing that mage is overpowered, mind you, just that summoner direct damage isn't really an outlier.
EDIT: Before "you might be sensitive, no deaf in prompt":
<480/610h 465/670m 0B 0> <e- db> Rocks the size of a fist fly around you as the tornado swirls, battering you painfully. H -25b [4.1%] [66] You feel your aura distend and whip back at Kryss, returning some of the damage that was meant for you. Damage reflected to Kryss. <454/610h 465/670m 0B 0> <e- db> Mathiaus lost rebounding. Mathiaus is using loneliness. Mathiaus raises his hand and you scream in pain as blood boils in your veins, causing your entire body to redden and hurt all over. H -156f [25.6%] [150] aff+ attuned to fire Your attunements : 1 1 1 1 Mathiaus cast batter at you. H -61 [10.0%] [52] <236/610h 465/670m 0B 0> <e- db>
To Sarrius's comment below - yeah I remember someone coming up with an awesome name, think it was chords? Get rid of Artistry, maybe give the bard varying bonuses based on each Voice word used, such that you aim for a stack of bonuses in addition to a stack of afflictions (from Voice) to push a musical overwhelm - call it Cacophony. Also, you can burn your bonuses like rites to increase Resonance at will, yeeeeessssssss
The problem with Bard is that, while resonance is awesome, everything around it is pretty poorly designed. In fact, most of the rest is just shit. The class needed a real remake, not three pseudo remakes and a box of bandaids.
I would give anything for us to retain Voice, delete Artistry and Thespia, and go more towards a swashbuckler route like Achaea.
Re: summoner damage, I think Palpatar? flare is kinda high, but only at the start of a fight. That means it isn't really much more than a great opener. My problem is how high Quicken damage is, but I compare it to the burst of other circles like Wysrias does. I think every class does far too much damage right now, but we can't fix that without 100% gamewide cooperation
<div>Message #2062 Sent By: (imperian) Received On: 1/20/2018/2:59</div><div>"Antioch has filed a bounty against you. Reason: Raiding Antioch and stealing Bina, being a right</div><div>ass, and not belonging anywhere near Antioch till he grows up."</div>
You're thinking of the Belial unleash, which is 15% of current health, so yes - it's generally only useful at the start of the fight. The other major damage unleash is Golgotha; Hecate also does some minor cutting damage, and Palpatar halves the next sip. Those are the only unleashes that really affect damage output.
I also don't really think that resonance is that great of a mechanic, because it completely frontloads the class. I can understand the frustration in having to work against your later self to reach early fight goals (afflictions -> cruel lament) while hoping to have your resource around to take advantage of the damage burst. I feel like the class would feel more intuitive if resonance ebbed and flowed in a way that rewarded high and low resonance in different manners, since that seems to be the direction the class is designed towards with afflicting and damaging being mostly exclusive.
<div>Message #2062 Sent By: (imperian) Received On: 1/20/2018/2:59</div><div>"Antioch has filed a bounty against you. Reason: Raiding Antioch and stealing Bina, being a right</div><div>ass, and not belonging anywhere near Antioch till he grows up."</div>
I dunno, halving sips really is a lot like the effective HP damage we sort of got rid of regarding the Poison Wisp. I don't see that much of an issue with it. Sorry for the confusion.
I have no issue with the sip bonus. Druids get a sip bonus that is just as strong. So do Outriders, if you count them in the same league.
<div>Message #2062 Sent By: (imperian) Received On: 1/20/2018/2:59</div><div>"Antioch has filed a bounty against you. Reason: Raiding Antioch and stealing Bina, being a right</div><div>ass, and not belonging anywhere near Antioch till he grows up."</div>
All of the summoner's escape tools can be stopped by using a monolith sigil. Barring that, kill the pathfinder.
The vast majority of summoners are heavily artifacted, which skews the result a bit. People like Mereis are a lot more fragile than you would expect by hearing 'summoner'.
Distortion is probably a bit too good for what it is, and the unleash bonuses/penalties could stand to spread out more across the skill so that there's not only a handful of optimal setups. Honestly, one of the major issues is that intelligent is a great statpack, and summoner is a great kit. In conjunction, it's an amazing setup. I am still not convinced it's an outlier, though, absent of real data.
EDIT: Yes, I forgot Scrag. And I'd do it again in a heartbeat. Not very much use wasting an unleash balance to do some relatively minor bleeding that nobody can take advantage of.
Summoner is OP. But without summoner, Demonic damage can be fairly lacklustre. We can't team fight if we're bringing little semi automatics against the artillery that is Mage/Druid/Hunter. Man Magick has so much burst :x
Ok ok. Mathiaus, using Bard as a reference and complaining about Demonic classes is like Iniar using Diabolist magickal damage and going "But whyyyyyyyy" hate to break it to you but Bard is Magick's worst class </3 (except that it is tanky holy amazeballs)
E: I'll make sure Scrag doesn't bring you a present this Christmas @Wysrias
<div>Message #2062 Sent By: (imperian) Received On: 1/20/2018/2:59</div><div>"Antioch has filed a bounty against you. Reason: Raiding Antioch and stealing Bina, being a right</div><div>ass, and not belonging anywhere near Antioch till he grows up."</div>
Comments
I'd rather fight for the team that has an uphill battle, otherwise, if you win it's not an accomplishment and is really uninteresting.
(Screw mobile forums)
(may vanish for periods of time)
@Gabriel the ultimate joke here is
"It has no bullets!"
‘Every sword’s a weight to carry. Men don’t see that when they pick ’em up. But they get heavier with time.”
@Iniar one of these days I'll have enough free time to actually make my mage system. 12 hour work days blow.
The point being, most of these people kill you in whatever class they are in at the time. It's not the class. Summoner is good, no lie. Summoner is too good in some respects. You're no where near qualified enough to weigh in on what is or isn't balanced for summoner.
Palpatar was the only small thing I have a remote (but not good) chance of having changed even slightly, cause everyone's mindset except Iniar is that everyone else is wrong 100% of the time and blame the other person involved no matter what.
Even the little bit I've used mage I've seen how much more dps there is in the class compared to bard. Bard is all about building up burst around afflictions. It blows damaging down higher healthed people cause of resonance, no matter what build the person may have.
I have more than done my fair share of pushing away the inconsistencies and over powering abilities of bard constantly. I'd like someone with summoner to actually step up and do the same for there own class as of recent.
I think the reason nobody is classleading it is because the damage is pretty comparable to other high damage classes. For instance, I do 120 magick damage to myself with quicken, which you're claiming is good enough on its own to outpace healing.
<417/610h 533/670m 1B 0> <-b b>
Mathiaus charged his crystal.
Mathiaus is using loneliness.
Mathiaus raises his hand and you scream in pain as blood boils in your veins, causing your entire body to redden and hurt all over.
H -156f [25.6%] [150]
aff+ attuned to fire
Your attunements : 1 1 1 1
Mathiaus cast batter at you.
H -61 [10.0%] [52]
<200/610h 533/670m 1B 0> <-b b>
If that damage is over the top, what is this? Considering that's fire damage you're doing (which I have higher resistance to), and I'm at level 1 fire attunement there (meaning it could scale even higher over time). I understand crystal charges are limited, but the major damage unleash (golgotha) has a 40 second cooldown, meaning you're using it at 1/5th the frequency of consuming a crystal charge to amplify damage. I'm not arguing that mage is overpowered, mind you, just that summoner direct damage isn't really an outlier.
EDIT: Before "you might be sensitive, no deaf in prompt":
<480/610h 465/670m 0B 0> <e- db>
Rocks the size of a fist fly around you as the tornado swirls, battering you painfully.
H -25b [4.1%] [66]
You feel your aura distend and whip back at Kryss, returning some of the damage that was meant for you.
Damage reflected to Kryss.
<454/610h 465/670m 0B 0> <e- db>
Mathiaus lost rebounding.
Mathiaus is using loneliness.
Mathiaus raises his hand and you scream in pain as blood boils in your veins, causing your entire body to redden and hurt all over.
H -156f [25.6%] [150]
aff+ attuned to fire
Your attunements : 1 1 1 1
Mathiaus cast batter at you.
H -61 [10.0%] [52]
<236/610h 465/670m 0B 0> <e- db>
Looks like batter is also untyped damage?
I would give anything for us to retain Voice, delete Artistry and Thespia, and go more towards a swashbuckler route like Achaea.
Re: summoner damage, I think Palpatar? flare is kinda high, but only at the start of a fight. That means it isn't really much more than a great opener. My problem is how high Quicken damage is, but I compare it to the burst of other circles like Wysrias does. I think every class does far too much damage right now, but we can't fix that without 100% gamewide cooperation
I also don't really think that resonance is that great of a mechanic, because it completely frontloads the class. I can understand the frustration in having to work against your later self to reach early fight goals (afflictions -> cruel lament) while hoping to have your resource around to take advantage of the damage burst. I feel like the class would feel more intuitive if resonance ebbed and flowed in a way that rewarded high and low resonance in different manners, since that seems to be the direction the class is designed towards with afflicting and damaging being mostly exclusive.
I have no issue with the sip bonus. Druids get a sip bonus that is just as strong. So do Outriders, if you count them in the same league.
The vast majority of summoners are heavily artifacted, which skews the result a bit. People like Mereis are a lot more fragile than you would expect by hearing 'summoner'.
Distortion is probably a bit too good for what it is, and the unleash bonuses/penalties could stand to spread out more across the skill so that there's not only a handful of optimal setups. Honestly, one of the major issues is that intelligent is a great statpack, and summoner is a great kit. In conjunction, it's an amazing setup. I am still not convinced it's an outlier, though, absent of real data.
EDIT: Yes, I forgot Scrag. And I'd do it again in a heartbeat. Not very much use wasting an unleash balance to do some relatively minor bleeding that nobody can take advantage of.