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Aryana - the only obelisk that matters

2

Comments

  • JuranJuran OhioMember Posts: 909 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The process of dying is simply too short and too reliable with Aryana, resulting in fights that don't end until the side without it has lost. That's really the entire argument.
  • IluvIluv Member Posts: 703 ✭✭✭✭
    Bathan said:
    Yah, imagine if in 300 the Persians had access to the Obelisk of Aryana. That's basically AM v Magick right now. :(
    Haha, right. You guys are Spartans.
    image
  • KryssKryss Member Posts: 426 ✭✭✭✭
    image

  • JuranJuran OhioMember Posts: 909 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Iluv said:
    Bathan said:
    Yah, imagine if in 300 the Persians had access to the Obelisk of Aryana. That's basically AM v Magick right now. :(
    Haha, right. You guys are Spartans.
    It's not the worst analogy, we're almost always outnumbered and I'd suggest above the average on organization most days.
    MenochZiat
  • IluvIluv Member Posts: 703 ✭✭✭✭
    Plus, y'all have such solid, rock hard abs.
    image
    JuranMenoch
  • MenochMenoch Raleigh, NC, USAMember Posts: 594 ✭✭✭
    Yeah. No. Smallest circle in game with hands down best organizational prowess is definitely us.

    Band aid for Dis: Make an unlimited number of rafts. No, it doesn't change the evil that is Aryana obelisk prime power, no it doesn't change hiding lockpick. Yes, it is a quick and easy fix that removes the aforementioned raft bottleneck, without a complete redesign of the entire dying process.
    Galt
  • CadeyrnCadeyrn Member Posts: 188 ✭✭✭
    Menoch said:
    Yeah. No. Smallest circle in game with hands down best organizational prowess is definitely us.

    Band aid for Dis: Make an unlimited number of rafts. No, it doesn't change the evil that is Aryana obelisk prime power, no it doesn't change hiding lockpick. Yes, it is a quick and easy fix that removes the aforementioned raft bottleneck, without a complete redesign of the entire dying process.
    lol
    MenochJorachim
  • JuranJuran OhioMember Posts: 909 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Menoch said:
    Yeah. No. Smallest circle in game with hands down best organizational prowess is definitely us.
    Demonic does well when you're around, I will give you that. When you're not around though it's mostly just Iluv trying devour or Ahkan/Lionas showing up and then immediately going home at the first sight of resistance.
  • CadeyrnCadeyrn Member Posts: 188 ✭✭✭
    Juran said:
    Menoch said:
    Yeah. No. Smallest circle in game with hands down best organizational prowess is definitely us.
    Demonic does well when you're around, I will give you that. When you're not around though it's mostly just Iluv trying devour or Ahkan/Lionas showing up and then immediately going home at the first sight of resistance.
    Having very recently been in Demonic and regularly taking part in shardfalls, Lionas is the cornerstone of any organization that comes from the Circle.

    Shardfall coordination is minimal or non-existent without his presence.
    MenochKanthari
  • MenochMenoch Raleigh, NC, USAMember Posts: 594 ✭✭✭
    edited November 2012
    Cadeyrn said:
    Juran said:
    Menoch said:
    Yeah. No. Smallest circle in game with hands down best organizational prowess is definitely us.
    Demonic does well when you're around, I will give you that. When you're not around though it's mostly just Iluv trying devour or Ahkan/Lionas showing up and then immediately going home at the first sight of resistance.
    Having very recently been in Demonic and regularly taking part in shardfalls, Lionas is the cornerstone of any organization that comes from the Circle.

    Shardfall coordination is minimal or non-existent without his presence.
    You hardly participated in combat with us. You rarely participate in combat with them. Your comments, in addition to being factually unsound, have nothing to do with the thread.
    /derail for personal dislike please

    EDIT: Although, I'd say AM beats Magick hands down in terms of organization. Magick could be doing things that would destroy any Demonic/AM group, and as to why they don't capitalize on them, I have no clue. They prefer to zerg and spam attack macro's, praying to miss rebounding or shield, when they have (arguably) the most (potential) synergy. 

    tl;dr: demonic > AM > magick in terms of organizational ability, although not capability.
  • CadeyrnCadeyrn Member Posts: 188 ✭✭✭
    Menoch said:
    You hardly participated in combat with us. You rarely participate in combat with them. Your comments, in addition to being factually unsound, have nothing to do with the thread.
    /derail for personal dislike please
    Cadeyrn said:
    Juran said:
    Menoch said:
    Yeah. No. Smallest circle in game with hands down best organizational prowess is definitely us.
    Demonic does well when you're around, I will give you that. When you're not around though it's mostly just Iluv trying devour or Ahkan/Lionas showing up and then immediately going home at the first sight of resistance.
    Having very recently been in Demonic and regularly taking part in shardfalls, Lionas is the cornerstone of any organization that comes from the Circle.

    Shardfall coordination is minimal or non-existent without his presence.

    "Rarely" because I work a 70 hour week. Still generally manage to get in 1 or 2 a day depending on the workload.

    Everyone knows the Aryana Obelisk is the only one worth obtaining, because the effect is game-breaking. The thread is null and void. Yay.
  • MenochMenoch Raleigh, NC, USAMember Posts: 594 ✭✭✭
    Cadeyrn said:
    Menoch said:
    You hardly participated in combat with us. You rarely participate in combat with them. Your comments, in addition to being factually unsound, have nothing to do with the thread.
    /derail for personal dislike please
    Cadeyrn said:
    Juran said:
    Menoch said:
    Yeah. No. Smallest circle in game with hands down best organizational prowess is definitely us.
    Demonic does well when you're around, I will give you that. When you're not around though it's mostly just Iluv trying devour or Ahkan/Lionas showing up and then immediately going home at the first sight of resistance.
    Having very recently been in Demonic and regularly taking part in shardfalls, Lionas is the cornerstone of any organization that comes from the Circle.

    Shardfall coordination is minimal or non-existent without his presence.

    "Rarely" because I work a 70 hour week. Still generally manage to get in 1 or 2 a day depending on the workload.

    Everyone knows the Aryana Obelisk is the only one worth obtaining, because the effect is game-breaking. The thread is null and void. Yay.
    The reasons why you aren't there, don't change the fact you aren't there, which equates to you having no clue what it is you're talking about.

    Parroting the OP and being disparaging instead of offering any sort of viable solution to the problem weren't what I had in mind, but whatever.
  • KryssKryss Member Posts: 426 ✭✭✭✭
    In the Magick circle we Zerglings have no need of such silly things as tactics, all they'd do is distract us.

    Menoch
  • MenochMenoch Raleigh, NC, USAMember Posts: 594 ✭✭✭
    edited November 2012
    Kryss said:
    In the Magick circle we Zerglings have no need of such silly things as tactics, all they'd do is distract us.
    Thank goodness druids were balanced after extensive beta testing and a round of classleads. I don't know where you poor, downtrodden magickers would be without that horribly OP renegade choke damage in team fights.
  • CadeyrnCadeyrn Member Posts: 188 ✭✭✭
    edited November 2012

    Menoch said:
    The reasons why you aren't there, don't change the fact you aren't there, which equates to you having no clue what it is you're talking about.

    Parroting the OP and being disparaging instead of offering any sort of viable solution to the problem weren't what I had in mind, but whatever.
    I missed the point where anyone is active enough to take part in all the shardfalls in a day. People sleep, eat, work, spend time with their family, have other hobbies.. and stuff that takes them away from their keyboards, right? This generally does not disqualify them from having an opinion on any issue. I consider spending 1 or 2 shardfalls (which equates to perhaps 45 to 60 minutes in any given day, depending on the population online) a quite generous offering amid an already busy life. This is certainly a whole lot more than some people who consider themselves  higher tier "combatants" take part in.

    Generally, making a thread post where you agree with the OP is the point. You agree with them.

    I missed the point where you offered any sort of viable solution to the problem.

    but whatever

    Menoch
  • MenochMenoch Raleigh, NC, USAMember Posts: 594 ✭✭✭
    You can click the thing that says 'Agree' to agree.
    I offered a solution to part of the problem.
    As to the fact that you've been in one shardfall Menoch has also been in, where Demonic was outnumbered 2:1 by both Magick and AM, you don't, in fact, have any sort of idea what you're talking about in terms of organizational abilities of the Demonic circle in team combat that I'm participating in. So no, it doesn't disqualify you from stating your opinion, but it does lend that opinion an incredibly small amount of knowledge as to what you're talking about. This isn't anything more than you trying to be snarky because you dislike me.
    You can have the last word now, since it is obviously so important to you.
  • IluvIluv Member Posts: 703 ✭✭✭✭
    I think unlimited rafts would be silly. A raft for each circle would be fine.
    image
  • MenochMenoch Raleigh, NC, USAMember Posts: 594 ✭✭✭
    Unlimited rafts are surely thematically silly, and your solution basically makes the same fix as unlimited/personal rafts would. The problem then becomes, oh no, I died and am ready to buy back now, and this guy just died and now we have to wait or be malechickenblocking our own circle. Meanwhile, the objective of closer to a static death-to-life time is much more assured with everyone either buying on their own raft, or anyone being able to buy out at any given time.

    Also, theme fix is easy, just have Charon push your raft while he stays on the shore in Dis the whole time. Or paddle boats.
  • IluvIluv Member Posts: 703 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 2012
    Also, we need padded gladiator batons to try to knock other teams off their rafts while we try to escape from Dis.
    image
    Menoch
  • KryssKryss Member Posts: 426 ✭✭✭✭
    Just think of the opportunities that would bring.. things like artifact batons! Since they're faster you're more likely to send your foes flying!

    image

    Menoch
  • BathanBathan Member Posts: 1,056 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I can't recall the last time AM lost a shardfall to demonic, and our numbers are generally pretty even. Menoch will call a target, maybe two people will listen while Iluv focuses some random target and someone else ( Carrick ) is doing his own thing. Moreover, demonic doesn't have a strategy in them. It's just like EVERYONE USE THE ATTACK YOU LIKE MOST. I mean sure, Kanthari's a beast and sometimes wins the game on his own for you, but in general demonic's pretty bad unless Lionas is around to be an actual leader, and even then, Lionas has a glass jaw!
    ‘Least I won’t have to carry it no more. You see how bloody heavy it is?’

    ‘Every sword’s a weight to carry. Men don’t see that when they pick ’em up. But they get heavier with time.”
    JorachimKanthari
  • IluvIluv Member Posts: 703 ✭✭✭✭
    The best is when Eldreth is around.
    image
  • BathanBathan Member Posts: 1,056 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Imperian just needs a sports style setup where at the beginning of each season we do drafts and trades and compete for a trophy.
    ‘Least I won’t have to carry it no more. You see how bloody heavy it is?’

    ‘Every sword’s a weight to carry. Men don’t see that when they pick ’em up. But they get heavier with time.”
    IluvKhizanSarciossis
  • SarriusSarrius Member, Beta Testers Posts: 1,680 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Menoch said:


    Kryss said:

    In the Magick circle we Zerglings have no need of such silly things as tactics, all they'd do is distract us.

    Thank goodness druids were balanced after extensive beta testing and a round of classleads. I don't know where you poor, downtrodden magickers would be without that horribly OP renegade choke damage in team fights.

    I don't understand the unreasonable bitterness here. Beta was very extensive. We asked Garryn about the damage. I would argue that what we failed to properly beta test were artifact quarterstaves. Their benefit is very high and they might be double dipping with collar on the topic of empower. I generally don't see why you are so upset that a class is powerful enough to compete. You had a chance to make your 'balls deep DPS' class (Defiler) get some new toys and you didn't do anything except ask for Summoner enlighten to be easier.

    On the topic of Aryana Obelisk: just because Dis sucks, that doesn't justify this obelisk. If any obelisk or captured benefit in Imperian is a 'rich get richer' mechanic, it is Aryana Obelisk.
    Message #2062  Sent By: (imperian)      Received On: 1/20/2018/2:59"Antioch has filed a bounty against you. Reason: Raiding Antioch and stealing Bina, being a rightass, and not belonging anywhere near Antioch till he grows up."
  • MenochMenoch Raleigh, NC, USAMember Posts: 594 ✭✭✭
    AM lost the last shardfall they both participated in with Demonic opposing, where are numbers were very close to even as well. This was a few hours ago. Juran was leading AM, I was calling for Demonic. AM's greatest 'tactic' is 'who of us can run in and out of the room the most?'. We play to our strengths, kelp stacking and asthma sticking in aeon typically being the one tactic when I'm present and in summoner, not that that's even required when 95% of AM/Magick doesn't realize smoke pipe with laurel cures aeon inside the 20 second window. (looking at you everyone but Kryss)

    I will readily admit that several people the last time we lost to AM where I was present failed horribly at staying on target, and the dps split was what cost us the engagement, because it was one of the few times I've seen the numbers being even. We also didn't have a summoner in said battle where we lost to AM, because Lionas and I were both unfortunately in dk.

    Almost (and I mean an overwhelming vast majority) every time I fight Magick or AM in shardfalls, Demonic is outnumbered, usually close to 2:1, and we still win more often than we lose. Again, I can't attest to what everyone does when I'm not here, but I can certainly attest to what I see firsthand on a regular basis.

    Our circle is the least populous, and we use more strategy than either of the other two. I see this from Magick: follow Khizan, enter portal, spam attack. (Even if that portal is to the Gates, which seems to happen a lot, almost like farsee is an auction arti or something.)

    I see a lot better work from AM if Juran or Bathan is there, and see the exact same thing (minus portals into enemy cities) but with more people hitting rebounding if he isn't.

    I'm not going to pretend we're the best, we're not, because we don't have as many level 80ish minions. If we did, we would probably never lose to either circle. Unfortunately how well you coordinate your group doesn't mean squat. The current state of affairs is, who can carry along enough people with trans Chivalry to use a claymore. It doesn't matter that we micro manage cc and stop insta's better than anyone else, because that's not giving us enough of a lead in the dps race when the numbers are so overwhelmingly in favor for the other side. It's not even a complaint, it's just how it works. I probably don't see anything else from AM/Magick because they quite simply don't need anything else, and anyone not using the tools they have available to win is dumb.

    tl;dr - AM/Magick have way more people than Demonic. Almost every time. Using singular examples to describe the norm is misleading to say the least. Team combat is a dps race, whoever has the most people to spam attack should overcome any amount of intelligent cc and coordination every time. I've died in a single prompt more times than I can count, because of this very factor.
    SarriusBathan
  • JustusJustus Member Posts: 38 ✭✭✭
    It's all swings and round-a-bouts. It wasn't that long ago that AM had all of the numbers and they just rolled over everyone without the need to try. Magick has taken the upswing because of the new professions, but nothing lasts forever.


    IluvMenoch
  • BathanBathan Member Posts: 1,056 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Well, I don't know. I guess when I'm not logged in (which is a fair bit) AM has more than four to five people. I never see it when I am logged on so I'll have to take your word for it.

    I'll admit the more convenient of the roads in shardfalls is huge burst damage but it's been established that demonic can do that (because we did it when I was there) through soulquench/defilers/clever use of Assassins. When I run into demonic it's usually a team of: Lionas, Iluv, Cordilia, Aleutia, Kanthari, Sarciossis and possibly one or two other henchmen I can't be bothered to remember. Maglust, maybe?

    I maintain that the biggest issue in demonic is the personnel as opposed to the pool of available abilities. Demonic plays home to such a staggering number of uncooperative, apathetic individuals who choose to blame the system rather than address internal issues and develop a winning setup. AM might not have much in the way of people (except when I'm not on apparently) but I can bet that my core group is always down to brawl and not be super snarky and a thorn in my side. Draekor, Juran, Jorachim and Victor are basically my go to group. Alonzo will be around sometimes, maybe Seneca and she doesn't really do much. Shou and Karyn were around for a while but I haven't seen them lately, might just be the break. Point is, we don't actually have numbers most of the time.

    The argument on who has the most 'advanced tactics' is kind of a pointless one. AM is good about focusing the right person, razing and running the audible. We don't play a lockdown game that comes with huge numbers, so we tend to run around a lot and avoid solo engagements. We have no heroes here, we have a cohesive team which is what has made playing for AM at this point in time such a great time.
    ‘Least I won’t have to carry it no more. You see how bloody heavy it is?’

    ‘Every sword’s a weight to carry. Men don’t see that when they pick ’em up. But they get heavier with time.”
  • JuranJuran OhioMember Posts: 909 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Menoch said:
    AM lost the last shardfall they both participated in with Demonic opposing, where are numbers were very close to even as well. This was a few hours ago. Juran was leading AM, I was calling for Demonic. AM's greatest 'tactic' is 'who of us can run in and out of the room the most?'.
    While I don't begrudge you a victory, I will correct your inaccuracies.

    That particular battle had Draekor, Alonzo, and Antonius with me against you, Maglust, Cordilia, Kanthari, Samiel, Riselith, and (due to poor judgement) Kyrss. I don't consider 4 v 6(7) to be unwinnable, but don't call it even. My team won the first engagement and lost the next two, which is admirable being outnumbered 150%.
  • KhizanKhizan Member Posts: 2,648 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Menoch said:
    They prefer to zerg and spam attack macro's, praying to miss rebounding or shield, when they have (arguably) the most (potential) synergy. 

      Got to admit, this is pretty hilarious coming from Demonic, the absolute king of unused synergy. 

    "On the battlefield I am a god. I love war. The steel, the smell, the corpses. I wish there were more. On the first day I drove the Northmen back alone at the ford. Alone! On the second I carried the bridge! Me! Yesterday I climbed the Heroes! I love war! I… I wish it wasn’t over."

    Bathan
  • ZiatZiat Member Posts: 119 ✭✭✭
    edited November 2012

    Menoch
    said:
    We play to our strengths, kelp stacking and asthma sticking in aeon typically being the one tactic when I'm present and in summoner, not that that's even required when 95% of AM/Magick doesn't realize smoke pipe with laurel cures aeon inside the 20 second window. (looking at you everyone but Kryss)
                                                                                                                                    

    THIS IS NOT THE QUOTE PART. THE STUPID THING WON'T END

    The only strength I've seen is how fast can you touch map or pathfind. If I had something like pathfinder or touch map (Before the fix), I'd fight uneven odds all day 
    Juran
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