Khizan's Classlead Repository, mkII

Khizan

New classlead round, new thread, same purpose. 

Raksha Band:

My problem with this isn't that it's basically a foolproof escape. It's not that it's difficult to prevent without 100% uptime CC. It's not even that redemption/ring makes people effectively unkillable.

My problem with this ring is that, all too often, this is how fights against it go. Septus runs in. Septus attacks you once or twice. Septus rings. 15 seconds later or so, Septus runs in, attacks you once or twice, and rings. After a few rounds of this, Septus runs in and breaks your legs. That or "Juran gets low, Juran rings out, Juran tracks back in a few seconds later. Repeat over the course of the entire shardfall." My problem is that I can see somebody like Septus ring 3 times in less than a minute while still maintaining a workable offense.

So what I want to do is change it so that using the ring to escape within, say, 30 seconds of a PvP attack will put the ring on cooldown for ~5 minutes. This preserves it as an escape method and leaves it as a convenient travel method when bashing and such, but it prevents it from being used to safely set up limbs, as well as limiting the amount ring/track style healing breaks that can be taken over the course of any one fight. 

Victor

I'd actually like that change, wouldn't be too god awful for the earrings of Gazali either.. Though, those are less of a problem these days..

Mathiaus

All instant escape abilities should probably get a cooldown period.

Lionas

Mathiaus said:

All instant escape abilities should probably get a cooldown period.

All instant escape abilities need some kind of mitigation other than constant CC. Being blocked by haze/HG/mono, relying on a low health pet, etc.. All of those are also fine. A cooldown is not the only solution.

Labil

Victor said:

I'd actually like that change, wouldn't be too god awful for the earrings of Gazali either.. Though, those are less of a problem these days..

Current earrings are basically Moradeim to a specific person. And pretty sure you can't follow.

Ahkan

Quick classleads off the top of my head:

Infirmity: Cannot be used in the deadeyes command. This means if you have an infirmity setup and you're in the curseward cooldown, sticking an infirmity is a 2-step process.
Solution: 

-Allow infirmity to bypass curseward

-Infirmity may breach curseward when used (while also activating the infirmity) at a longer balance cost.

-Allow infirmity to be combod ONLY with breach
 Not sure which one I favor.

Totems: I can't do anything while propping my totem (hurhur). Back in the day, this was a worthy sacrifice because I could pk-rufie like 30 people. Yeah well, times have changed.

Solution:

-Allow me to communicate while propping my totem (I hear communication is key)

-Allow me to do all manner of action while propping a totem that does  not consume balance and/or equilibrium

-Allow for both!

Also...corrosion classlead...man! It was awesome

Hanzou

+1 on some kind of breach or bypass when using infirmity. Any of the solutions would work for me.

Gurn

I believe all tells, says, and channeltells are allowed when you prop a totem.

Septus

Path find to go through soulmask/cover tracks/any similar ones I'm missing. I dislike these abilities on the principle of them essentially being spam through the rng and hope you don't spend too much time off eq for everyone except monks, but sure, whatever. I can't see any real reason for allied path find to be blocked by it though, particularly now that you can just hold down your enter key until it goes through since the removal of the balance cost on it. Perhaps there's some reason for this I'm missing.

Selthis

If you're going to an ally that isn't going to move, isn't a prism tattoo more effective in that scenario? Granted, it announces your intention, but so does a lot of foreboding stone spam.

Edit: I accidentally a word. 

Edit 2:  I mean, rather than fighting rng at this point in time. Not saying the overall change is a bad one or isn't needed.

Septus

I was thinking more generally, not specifically for pathing to someone in area.

Labil

Request that your ally tell you their room.

I mean, it annoys me as well that I'm blocked by my allies' abilities to see their location, but there are some other solutions other than spamming finding abilities.

Lionas

#alias tellroom {rt I am currently at room #%gmcp.room.info.num - %gmcp.room.info.name}
EDIT: But I'm not opposed to removing the restriction for mutual allies.

Caelya

Put a cooldown on pet delivery. Doesn't need to be explained.

(Though TROLOLOLOL Hound deliver shardbomb Juran x10 is kind of why this needs to be addressed.)

Ahkan

There's already a cooldown, it's the equilibrium time. It's really an inefficient way to kill someone and it actually greatly endangers the pet, because the bomb can explode and destroy the pet. Delivering bombs is useful for three things: Being a dick, maybe rng separating teams and interrupting capture.  I think it's hard to make a classlead issue out of this because everyone has access to it, it's equally stupid and abusive for everyone (it's just bemoaned about more when it hits certain people) yadda yadda.

What you should classlead is "Reducing the ability for someone outside of a shardfall to interfere with the outcome of a shardfall without having to enter the shardfall itself, while maintaining the no-pk-rights later on by claiming it's happened within the confines of the shardfall." (which Lio will).

Lionas

Hey, I entered the area of the shardfall. (Once, briefly, before noping out of there)

Ahkan

This is going to waste a few classleads (because the system is derp) just because we have to do it per skill (sup seraph/ouroboros summon)

Resurrection abilities - Adding cooldowns to them. (Once per fight)

Hanzou

Hearts - Change them to not drop on logout or death. The very short decay time is enough to make it impossible to hog these for too long.

Soulspears - Make it possible to throw these within the same room as the target. It could either be the exact same effect or remove the impale effect for a bit higher damage due to a higher impact since you're standing like a feet away and throwing it in their face.

Putrefaction - Draining health to keep this one up seems weird today. I can understand the reasoning behind it when it used to be really high protection, but now at a 20% resist I can't see why it should also drain health. Especially since there's other abilities in the same range that does not drain health. Conclusion: remove the health drain.

Demon sap - Make it possible to use this ability + various other ouroboros abilities when your ouroboros is in your room. Right now it requires me to order it to follow me, which I think is a weird and dumb mechanic since it's RIGHT THERE.

Nightmare - Give us a message when this demon hits a target because I hate the hidden ticks.

Malignosis demons - I have several ideas for them, some small and some pretty gamechanging but I'll write some here:

- Make pentagrams last longer. 10 minutes might sound like it's enough but those 10 minutes goes by real quick and losing your daemonite in the midst of a fight is NOT fun. The time to get my daemonite back is 1.8s balance pentagram carve (as fast statpack) and then 4.2s eq to summon it. It should be easy enough to kill it so I see no harm in having it last longer or permanent until the pentagram is dispelled or I log out. Same goes with the other demons as well of course, not just daemonite.

- Remove the requirement to have darkness in the room to summon nightmare. This makes summoning a nightmare, which isn't THAT powerful today, an even longer process. NIGHT is at a 4.2s eq time so with everything else added to it, that's 4.2+4.2+1.8 seconds just to summon nightmare!! (as fast statpack)

- New ability near transcendent that summons the demon instantly with no need to carve the pentagram first. It'd carve it for you but you're now quick enough that you can do it in one swoop and at a faster rate - perhaps so much as half the total setup time (eq based). Perfect for speeding up the quite long setup time that we currently have.

I got more ideas but many of them depend on how daegger hunt turns out. SO CODE IT FASTER

Azefel

re: shardbomb delivery, bombs exploding while a pet is holding it doesn't kill the pet any longer. I believe it was changed some time ago. Else I'd still be throwing bombs to people's hounds.

Mathiaus

Hanzou said:

- Make pentagrams last longer. 10 minutes might sound like it's enough but those 10 minutes goes by real quick and losing your daemonite in the midst of a fight is NOT fun. The time to get my daemonite back is 1.8s balance pentagram carve (as fast statpack) and then 4.2s eq to summon it. It should be easy enough to kill it so I see no harm in having it last longer or permanent until the pentagram is dispelled or I log out. Same goes with the other demons as well of course, not just daemonite.

 

Not to say it's still a bit of an annoying balance to do so, but my sketches only have 50 attacks per sketch. I normally have to tear out a new one every fight, sometimes two, an I have a limited number of them, which I HAVE to have a master class around to get new ones instead of simply summoning a new one. I believe when a creature only requires balance instead of requiring an entire mastered classed person to exist is a sufficient cost.

Labil

- Your sketches can't be killed by a single strike of a purified weapon, or passively by a rite.
- You can control when they attack and how they attack.
- You can have multiple ones out at a time. Currently, unless I missed a change, you can have one demon in the room plus another demon (99% of the time, a daemonite) from a pentagram in ANOTHER room, which will die in 10 min anyway, assuming it doesn't dies by rite or a strike. Bloodworms could count I guess, since they do not require a pentagram, same argument as a daemonite though.

Apples, oranges. Thank for joining our contest, try again next time.

Khizan

Re: shardbomb/deliver.

The simple answer is that pets should not deliver lit bombs of any kind . 

Trying to deliver a bomb should give you a message like "Your pet is not stupid and will not pick up the flaming explodey thing" or "Your pet balks at the command, and refuses to accept a lit bomb".

Juran

Shard bombs aren't really the problem. If someone wants to fly over a fight and shard bomb it holocaust style, that's fair. If someone wants to drop one to split up a team fight, that's also fair. The only problem with shard bombs is the way that deliver takes away the risk of using shard bombs, by allowing you to involve yourself in a fight from the comfort of your home city.

There's no real drawback to removing the ability to deliver flaming bombs via pets, and you wouldn't find many pets willing to be that comfortable with fire regardless.

Mathiaus

Outriders take care of them pretty easy.

Aulani

Deaden and Disease - While both are nice opener skills, if the target is off focus or purge balance (respectively) the skills literally do nothing. I would like to see them still apply the secondary affliction,

Mathiaus

I'd like to see instant Kantae be gone.

Labil

Aulani said:

Deaden and Disease - While both are nice opener skills, if the target is off focus or purge balance (respectively) the skills literally do nothing. I would like to see them still apply the secondary affliction,

Sorry, no compassion for a profession that has to do like 75% less tracking that saboteurs do. Purge balance even has a third party message now.

Gurn

No. That's comparing apples and oranges. Just because it's an affliction class doesn't mean it's the same. No, you don't have to track as well, want to know why? Because half our afflictions are there solely for the purpose of brainmelt. I can stick half the supremacy afflictions(paranoia, loneliness, masochism, dementia, hell, even something like lethargy recklessness), and it won't do a damned thing against you. Will it slow you down? Sure, it might. Lethargy and confusion will. Will it actually have some reasonable effect on you besides those few slow-downs? No.

Hunter is not like saboteur. Saboteur builds off momentum and keeps that momentum rolling. You get the snowball effect where the more afflictions that are on you, the more difficult it is to cure out of it, and the more afflictions that will end up getting on you. That's why you have to track, because you need to make sure hemotoxin and impatience and whatnot are stuck so you can continue that snowball.

Hunter, not so much. You stick triggers, you get the ball rolling, and it's a very fast snowball indeed, but once you're past that short trigger window, you're back at square one, with half the afflictions you stuck being completely useless to actual combat.

All the other tracking is fairly easy because, well, I'm not giving other orphine afflictions, so stupidity is easy, paralysis is... Well, if they move or hit, it's gone, and impatience... If they focus it's gone. Hemotoxin, if they purge, it's gone. This is fairly universal across all professions-- As Runeguard, these are my primary sort of afflictions as well, and it's the same for saboteur.

So, tl;dr Hunters don't have to track because really, who wants to track dementia and loneliness? Doesn't address problem at all.

Aulani

I wasn't looking for your compassion, just using the thread as intended. Besides the change would not invalidate the benefit to tracking, since it would be better to claw the relevant toxin.

Deadaim - I would like the mana drain looked at, it seems rather high. More importantly I would like the drain consolidated at least a bit. Having one mana tick each second is really annoying when trying to do anything that requires full health/mana

Labil

Saboteurs window is quite based on hypnosis, once hypnosis is done, if you didn't got a good foothold, you basically have to restart. Hunters can recreate their window quite more easily than saboteurs, and they, as you said, just need a high enough amount of afflictions to fire a devastating brainmelt.

Ahkan

These apples are just like the other apples. Hunter is exactly like every other affliction class. Stick afflictions. Establish momentum. Put away. During the momentum phase, you don't mind having useless afflictions. "Useless" afflictions are -awesome- because most of them are very low priority and gobble up focus/purge and allow the 'good' afflictions to stick longer. You -want- always want to track because it's information on your target. Knowing that Labil has loneliness and agorphobia lets you know that you're brainmelt is going to do more stupid damage.

"Useless" afflictions are good for _____ because _____
Malignist + Infirmity

Wytch + overload + mark ignite
Saboteur + filler, overload, annihilate
Hunter + brainmelt 

@Labil: I think what Aulani is saying is that she has a skill that has the qualifier that the target must have focus/purge balance to afflict or the skill does nothing.Considering she's playing an affliction class (that has some pretty goofy mechanics, sup trigger/hallucinogen), the victim is going to be focussing and purging every chance they get. Her affliction skill is now pretty useless. Honestly, I agree with her.