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Profession Discussion Thread

RyseRyse Member Posts: 94 ✭✭✭
We haven't had one of these in a while, and new player questions inevitably circle back to "What profession is best?" The help files are old, many players avoid the forums, and many threads are rather contentious. As a new player to any game, the first thing I do is check forums/wikis to get a feel for the various character options before creating a character, and a reasonably updated class discussion thread communicates this clearly.

So...what profession is "The Best"?

(One squid's opinion after six months of play, both PvE and PvP. Designed for newcomers with questions. Skip below for actual class discussion)

DISCLAIMER: Some classes are rather strong right now, others aren't, and a smallish player base means not every class is represented consistently. IRE also includes a system of "Artifacts" that inflate and confuse balance, as artifacts are items/gear that provide bonuses across the board as well as unique, class-specific abilities. Two level 101 characters of the same class may have WILDLY different power levels due to artifacts...and not just because of skill, but because of pure raw mechanical advantage. 
For example, a "Flail of Ravening Hunger" (level 3 artifact flail) provides a +20% damage bonus, and "Gauntlets of Avaysu" (level 3 strength artifact) provides +3 strength, which is about 18ish damage. So "Bob the level 101 Fighter" with no artifacts might do 100 damage, while "Billy the level 101 Fighter" with ALL the artifacts might do 140 damage. 
Artifacts are gained via credits, which are earned by playing the game, completing events, selling promo items, or via direct purchase. Yes, it's "Pay 2 Win", but play long enough and you'll catch up. 

Also, Imperian heavily benefits from coding/scripting ability. To many of us, this is a good thing, as we jumped into Imperian to teach ourselves basic coding/scripting in a live, entertaining environment. While not required, scripting/coding will save your hands from carpal tunnel and react far faster than a human can in-game. For example, in group combat someone may script "Ryse enters the room! Kill Ryse", then four other people script "Target: Ryse" on that message...and suddenly Ryse the Squid is focus-fired instantly by everyone. This is far more efficient than staring at a screen, waiting for a small "Ryse walks into the room" message, manually typing "Set Target Ryse", and "Fire Laser at Ryse".

So if someone encounters X class/player and is instantly destroyed...it may not be the class, but the player's amount of artifacts, skill in coding, experience playing, or a combination. There are several players who use "mechanically subpar" classes and succeed due to coding/scripting ability and artifact ownership.
Also, classes change and evolve via the CLASSLEAD system. When you see "CLASSLEAD", think "SUGGESTIONS/NERFS/IMPROVEMENTS on Classes from the Playerbase". 

/DISCLAIMER

I have personal experience with two classes - Diabolist and Defiler. I currently main Defiler, so I'll start there.

Defiler - "I'm Captain Planet, Bi$ch!"

Summary: Defiler is an excellent class. An "Evil Druid", the Defiler wears medium-heavy armor, uses a shield, wields a flail, and simultaneously clubs people in the head while hurting their self-esteem via various "torment" abilities while its evil tree buddy screams at people. I'm not kidding, the powers are usually psychic damage and are flavored as "Whispers horrible things" and "Makes blood run from your eyes". It's edgy, emo, quite silly, and generally a "derp class" that can be setup quickly and contribute to group combat easily. It probably needs a few tweaks for balance, as it currently can do a bit TOO much...

...but for some reason, NO ONE PLAYS DEFILER! Probably because, to be frank, it's pretty straight forward and boring. Defiler is the "Max Strength Full Plate Greatsword" of Demonic (yes, more than Deathknight)...hit people, build up "entropy" (a Defiler resource), then use "entropy" for stuff. Tanky, high damage, but once you learn to survive the big damage burst...that's it. Defiler is also a terrible, horrible, cry into your treant awful PvE class. Your treant can't attack mobs, you can't yell at mobs...all you have is a slow, medium damage flail hit that registers as a single-line. Ryse is level 108 with an artifact value of 4000, and it still takes me about 20 minutes to clear Redwood Cottons of weevils.

Pros
+ Good defensive potential (lots of shadowbinding defenses)
+ High burst damage (bellow ALL THE THINGS)
+ Utility (you can project past walls, entangle, rain area toxins)
+ Excellent in PvP with minimal required complication (spam ravage/entropy then bellow at 100% - there, I created your offense for you)

Cons
- Horrible PvE. I wouldn't recommend a Defiler until you have a scepter (an artifact hunting stick)
- Uses weapon attacks, so you'll need to figure out rebounding/shields (a non-issue with more caster-y classes)
- Kinda boring. Straight-forward. Not terribly complicated.
- Slow hits

...

Diabolist - "I'm like really into tattoos and demons and darkness"

(Disclaimer - I was a terrible Diabolist, and it was my first class. YMMV)

Summary: Diabolist is in a weird place right now. An "Evil Priest", the Diabolist is a dexterity based utility caster with a lot of fun bells and whistles but a very slow build-up. They are light-medium armored clergy-types that ride a giant snake demon, summon complicated ghost-pets, and carve rituals to cast ticking time-bombs on enemies. They just OOZE flavor, their utility is amazing (they can teleport, wall, obscure, track, spy, fly), and they have VERY impressive damage after a slow build-up. They fight by combining two different ritual "sketches" every 2s, triggering wraith abilities off-bal when conditions are met, and detonating rituals into big, repeating damage over time bursts. They are also AMAZING in PvE...built right, they attack twice every 2s with high-crit while inflicting burning and shivering while self-healing health/mana and passively aff-curing. I bashed to aspect on Diabolist.

...but, as mentioned before, Diabolist is in a weird place. It's relatively squishy, but has a very slow melee build up to do it's thing...so you often die while trying to do your "shtick". There's no real escape abilities, making it difficult to maximize the "hit and run" design of a slow build squishy class. Their insta-kill is reliant on low mana, but there's no ability to actually damage or drain mana. While Diabolist can inflict some affs, the affs aren't terribly disabling/hindering and high burst classes can power through them. 

I can hear the complaints now..."But @Mathiaus uses Diabolist and he kills me all the time!". Refer back to my previous disclaimer statement - Mat has played for over a decade, is a professional programmer, and has tons of artifacts. His skill is less "because of Diabolist" and more "in spite of Diabolist". He also likes to play complex, underdog classes.

Pros
+ Complex, rich, and satisfying when you pull off the BIG BOOM of a Sun Moon Repetition.
+ Great utility. Everyone loves having a Diabolist in a group. Teleport, heals, buffs...they can even cure out of paralysis, and have passive aff curing.
+ AMAZING PvE. Very fun, very satisfying, with a lot of abilities usable against mobs.
+ So much flavor. The king of Flavor-Town.  

Cons
- Fairly squishy for a melee only class
- Slow buildup
- Lack of evasions
- No synergy with abilities and instakill

...

Those are the only two classes I have any experience with, so I'd like to hear additional breakdowns from other players. In addition, this information could be useful for new or transitioning players as well.

Comments

  • GjarrusGjarrus Member, Beta Testers Posts: 683 ✭✭✭✭
    I'm not gonna go deep here, but I'll do a tier list considering both 1v1 and teams with a sentence or two of comment.

    S tier

    Shaman - pew pew fingerguns, vortex, angry carvings

    Defiler - T I M E B O M B but also tanky with dps and utility and and and and and

    Runeguard - Tank, damage, fitness, best knight affing, vortex/totem.

    Berserker - Built for combat, easy to get into, high skill ceiling. Definitely biased atm tho.

    A tier

    Assassin/Renegade - Trickier 1v1, decent teamfighting (just a bit squish without artis) as long as you understand the stark differences in strategy between the two.

    Bard - This one is hard between S and A. The offense isn't as oppressive on hinders so you can usually freefire, but it's ouchie and ramps up quickly in teams.

    Druid - Tons of Damage, amazing range

    Templar - Great for teamfights, and the atonement route is interesting but pretty clearly subpar to the potential of RG flares.

    B tier

    Summoner - 1v1 is currently a damage check or rolling the dice on a brute force enlighten, both pretty easily hindered past. Damage, utility, and range make them incredibly useful in teams.

    Diabolist - You really have to prolong the 1v1, and the payoff gets delayed after that. Tons of teamfight utility, though, like trace spider w/etheyfeellikeidc

    Monk - Limb-reliant 1v1 feels meh, team fight is great. (I think there was some change to make int monks in-room fighting better? Could be wrong, haven't seen it).

    Priest - See above, but absolve lol

    Rangazon - See above, but a little weaker on team fight except for strafe net with a vortex :D

    Hunter - Teamfighting is subpar but not entirely atrocious, and lure is always nice. 1v1 requires getting a hang of triggers (skill, not coding), and tbh I can't say that I've ever seen a hunter that I'd say had it mastered.

    Mage - Considering lavaburst is like a bellow with lower buildup dps and no potential double-hit, it's hard to be impressed by mage. Admittely the class I probably know the least.


    F tier

    Predator - 1v1 is reliant on a couple gimmicks like prepping -> run -> bladesurge activate. Teams idk, if your team feeds you prone maybe it'd be alright, but I never saw that.

    DK - Better off playing Berserker.

    Engineer - autocuring domecap 1, gg this class is utter garbage if you're not hunting with that hawt kwikshot.


    RyseJalaras
  • LartusLartus Member Posts: 449 ✭✭✭
    dang
  • GjarrusGjarrus Member, Beta Testers Posts: 683 ✭✭✭✭

    IcariusJalaras
  • KyraicKyraic USAMember Posts: 84 ✭✭✭
    I haven't played since I retired Khizan, but due to my long familiarity with the Imperian classlead and revamp process I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say:

    Predator: F------------------------------ You suck at PvP and also at everything else, and the only use of predator is to mask into a city and set a red shard return point so you get a real class past the gates. 
    GjarrusTreydenJalaras
  • KalynthariKalynthari Member Posts: 278 ✭✭✭
    edited May 16

    No real order beyond the tiers themselves.

    F- you @Septus:
    Monk.
    I'm bad so I have to play OP classes tier:
    Shaman, Defiler.
    Pretty good tier:
    Bard, Berserker, Druid, Runeguard, Templar, Renegade/Saboteur (if you have the arties), Outrider.
    Good if the other person sucks tier:
    Hunter, Diabolist, Ranger/Amazon, Priest, Mage(? only one I've seen has more arties than god), Summoner.
    Gofundme.com/Help-me-class-change tier:
    Engineer, DK.
    Haven't actually logged in to the game in 10 years tier:
    Predator.

    @Gjarrus you forgot Outrider you donglord.
    TreydenJalaras
  • TreydenTreyden Member Posts: 54
    Haven't actually logged in to the game in 10 years tier:
    Predator.
    That is the part that actually made me laugh. I'm not even going to try and hide it. 
    Jalaras
  • ConathonConathon Member Posts: 9
    I feel so sad now...

    Wait, in game years, or Real-life years?
    Your warcry is: "WE'RE ALL GONNA DIE!"
  • EochaidEochaid Member Posts: 105 ✭✭
    I like Deathknight. I feel tanky.
  • SeptusSeptus Member, Beta Testers Posts: 779 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Deathknight gets a bad rep because people compare it to the other knights. It typically plays somewhat differently and has a harder optimal playstyle for people to get their head around (combining salves/herbs rather than just one or the other), but it can be very powerful once you can achieve that, particularly with new scimitars and chained breaks under butisol. Templar/deathknight have a much superior pure longsword option, simply because you can't really argue with those potential 4x nightshade combos.

    Utility wise, its categorically weaker than the other two knights, which is where a lot of the frustration with it springs from. Necromancy is also awful compared to the powerhouse which is the bar that defines knight secondaries (Runelore). I would quite happily play deathknight if in demonic though, you just can't go in expecting to be an rg. I'm a little sad Kabaal's suggestions to add some comboables never got classleaded, some secondary additional salve pressure could make it the best knight in sheer offensive power, which isn't a bad nitch for it and is something somewhat lacking in demonic these days (putting aside the problem case of defiler*).

    MathiausJalaras
  • TreydenTreyden Member Posts: 54
    I feel like Defiler shouldn't count because we all know that defiler needs some adjustments as it currently is.
  • KalynthariKalynthari Member Posts: 278 ✭✭✭
    I think one of the main problems with DK is it scales so heavily with intelligence. Despite being a predominantly strength-based class, if you want to hunt with it... Clever's kill potential is alright, but compared to other knights (or demonic in general) it's kind of lackluster at best.
  • LachlanLachlan Member Posts: 2
    edited May 17
    Septus said:

    Utility wise, its categorically weaker than the other two knights, which is where a lot of the frustration with it springs from. Necromancy is also awful compared to the powerhouse which is the bar that defines knight secondaries (Runelore)
    The issue with necromancy is that, apart from changes to Animate/Possess, and (significant) nerfs to various skills (Leech, Feed, Vivisect) to reduce it's usefulness with the original Diabolist class, it is - almost literally - exactly the same skill set it was when Imperian was first released. In the same period of time we've seen basically every other skill set in the game be either replaced or see significant changes - Deathknight is still essentially the Infernals from Achaea, except even their skills have seen updates.
  • TreydenTreyden Member Posts: 54
    Lachlan said:
    Septus said:

    Utility wise, its categorically weaker than the other two knights, which is where a lot of the frustration with it springs from. Necromancy is also awful compared to the powerhouse which is the bar that defines knight secondaries (Runelore)
    The issue with necromancy is that, apart from changes to Animate/Possess, and (significant) nerfs to various skills (Leech, Feed, Vivisect) to reduce it's usefulness with the original Diabolist class, it is - almost literally - exactly the same skill set it was when Imperian was first released. In the same period of time we've seen basically every other skill set in the game be either replaced or see significant changes - Deathknight is still essentially the Infernals from Achaea, except even their skills have seen updates.
    Infernal also sounds cooler in my opinion. No judgement though.
  • UhtredUhtred Member Posts: 4
    So I just started playing again. Haven't been on since 2015. Started looking through the forums about changes and I came across this thread. Naturally I was curious as to where my class would rank and guess what... it's apparently at the bottom of the list. I am a DK. Trans in weaponmastery and Brutality and 362 lessons away from trans necromancy and somehow I have 1824 lessons to use as well (no idea where those came from heh.)

    I'm cityless at the moment and am level 89. @Septus said the class has potential but is kind of tricky to work with as you have to work with two paths of afflictions: Salves and herbs instead of focusing on one route or the other, if I understood his post correctly. Seeing as I was never that great at combat to begin with as my coding abilities are beyond horrible, and the fact that if I change class, I'm losing 50% of my lessons in those skills... what would you all suggest for someone returning?

    Should I class change and go a different route? Or should I stick with DK to prevent lesson loss and just focus more on pve aspects of the game while I slowly (very slowly) learn to how to fight in the game and work towards figuring out DK? With the new FTP setup, is the lesson loss even that big a deal anymore? I am not sure how hard it is to get the 20 credits a day.
  • NarujNaruj Member, Beta Testers Posts: 158 ✭✭✭
    Uhtred said:
    So I just started playing again. Haven't been on since 2015. Started looking through the forums about changes and I came across this thread. Naturally I was curious as to where my class would rank and guess what... it's apparently at the bottom of the list. I am a DK. Trans in weaponmastery and Brutality and 362 lessons away from trans necromancy and somehow I have 1824 lessons to use as well (no idea where those came from heh.)

    I'm cityless at the moment and am level 89. @Septus said the class has potential but is kind of tricky to work with as you have to work with two paths of afflictions: Salves and herbs instead of focusing on one route or the other, if I understood his post correctly. Seeing as I was never that great at combat to begin with as my coding abilities are beyond horrible, and the fact that if I change class, I'm losing 50% of my lessons in those skills... what would you all suggest for someone returning?

    Should I class change and go a different route? Or should I stick with DK to prevent lesson loss and just focus more on pve aspects of the game while I slowly (very slowly) learn to how to fight in the game and work towards figuring out DK? With the new FTP setup, is the lesson loss even that big a deal anymore? I am not sure how hard it is to get the 20 credits a day.
    DK is going to be very strong after the currently approved crop of classleads are implemented. If you are interested in being a DK, I would just get started again as a DK. By the time you're in fighting shape, you'll be good to go.
    You grabbed my hand and we fell into it
    Like a daydream.. or a fever
    Septus
  • UhtredUhtred Member Posts: 4
    Naruj said:
    Uhtred said:
    So I just started playing again. Haven't been on since 2015. Started looking through the forums about changes and I came across this thread. Naturally I was curious as to where my class would rank and guess what... it's apparently at the bottom of the list. I am a DK. Trans in weaponmastery and Brutality and 362 lessons away from trans necromancy and somehow I have 1824 lessons to use as well (no idea where those came from heh.)

    I'm cityless at the moment and am level 89. @Septus said the class has potential but is kind of tricky to work with as you have to work with two paths of afflictions: Salves and herbs instead of focusing on one route or the other, if I understood his post correctly. Seeing as I was never that great at combat to begin with as my coding abilities are beyond horrible, and the fact that if I change class, I'm losing 50% of my lessons in those skills... what would you all suggest for someone returning?

    Should I class change and go a different route? Or should I stick with DK to prevent lesson loss and just focus more on pve aspects of the game while I slowly (very slowly) learn to how to fight in the game and work towards figuring out DK? With the new FTP setup, is the lesson loss even that big a deal anymore? I am not sure how hard it is to get the 20 credits a day.
    DK is going to be very strong after the currently approved crop of classleads are implemented. If you are interested in being a DK, I would just get started again as a DK. By the time you're in fighting shape, you'll be good to go.
    I got no problem staying it. I went DK originally because I have always enjoyed the idea of RPing as a dark knight. Thanks for the input!
  • EochaidEochaid Member Posts: 105 ✭✭
    DK's fun right now. Our up front game isn't and wont be as strong as Runeguards or Templars but we have a good end game stack, that's going to get stronger, that can get rolling pretty strongly with some limb prep.

    Vivisect makes me sad though. It needs fixing or changing in some way.
    Jalaras
  • EochaidEochaid Member Posts: 105 ✭✭
    Dk is going to require you to have either a semi-decent affliction tracking or insanly good judgement on what toxins to use.

    I'm a total newb when it comes to coding but I managed to throw together a decent enough affliction tracker on mudlet that has held up good enough against some of the big names.
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