Sect(shrine)-wars - clearing out the greyzones.
Before I start, I would like to make it absolutely clear that I am fully aware that people will take this as "toxic" or something else than what I really try to bring up for discussion. But I have a honest intention to discuss and bring sect-wars into something less silly as a good thing for everyone who wish to enjoy the conflicts. An attempt to figure out how to turn sect-wars into something more reasonable and less "griefy".
This is the most toxic and griefy conflict mechanism that exists in Imperian at this point. Shrines being removed and a system without any bounds or conditions often turns into a pile of really angry players that gets frustrated and blame each other for being awful. I look at sectwars like how old raids worked, there was no way to really "win" beyond making the other side completely give up and push back important gameplay so far that some players rather just quit. Before anyone starts to throw out "But last shrinewar" this and "last shrinewar" that, it is irrelevant nowadays, what I look at now is how people work around the timers on shrines and between that stand around and do.. nothing or PVE for faith and therefore push the entire status back again.
Sectwars needs conditions. It needs win / lose conditions. Furthermore it needs to be very clear on the PK side. Why? Because PK still is the major reason to toxic behaviour.
You talk but what do you suggest?!
A sect should be able to commence war against another sect. This shouldn't be taken lightly, this shouldn't also be something that you can do on and off just because you are upset at one point. IF you as the leader of a sect start a war against another sect you should first off all know that you have your sect with you.
SECT COMMENCE WAR <ENEMY SECT>
Upon doing this, you are notifying the other sect (leader?) that you as a leader have started a sect war against X. First step down, now people know who.
Secondly I'd remove the grey-zone of PK by making people in that sect actively take a stance (read above about how you before you start a sect war should be sure someone else is with you on it) do they want to participate or not? More or less a command that puts you on the "fighter" list.
SECT WAR <ENEMY SECT> JOIN
When you join that war you are open PK. No more discussions about "I am only defiling once" or "I am only defending once". No, if you start a war against someone you are OPEN PK during that time. This is for two things. 1) There would be no issues and reasons to complain on EITHER side about when or when you are not allowed to be killed. 2) People who feel that they cannot or do not want to join that have a option to be left out for this conflict alone.
This would be connected to the DEFILE/SANCTIFY/DESECRATE commands. You cannot use either unless you are on the list of fighters during the conflict. Once again, remove the grey-zones.
I have 2 ideas for this and I am not sure which would work better.
Currently you can have a group sit around and use DESECRATE and if nobody is hunting or building faith on the other side eventually the attacked sect turns into a cult (we think... nobody knows because its both so awfully boring to do this and there is no way to tell how much damage it does). I don't even want to push another sect into a cult, I want to have another war in the upcoming months.
1) Turn desecration into something else. Heck, I even take 30 min of desecration of a shrine -> add 1 point to the sect doing it. With 10 points of whatnot you win the war.
2) The more griefy suggestion would be that you cannot build faith while people desecrate your altar. This is to clear out the grey-zone of people who "only PVE" to negate the entire idea behind desecrate.
I would however love to see DESECRATE of an altar to be connected to the actual "win".
We currently see an alliance in this shrinewar shouldn't that be allowed?
This is nothing I want to limit with the rules I am after. For this reason perhaps another sect command should be added to join a conflict.
SECT WAR JOIN <ALLIED SECT> (i.e).
And then they would also put themselves up on that "fighting" list in order to be able to DEFILE / SANCTIFY / DESECRATE against the sect that you currently are in war with.
But wait? Can't you already do all of this but without the risk of being attacked outside the bounty / defile / sanctify / desecrate situation?
Yes! You can. Which is a great part of the reason to why it needs to be adjusted. Conflict without players dodging "in and out" of it and creating grey-zones is one of the most frustrating situations there is. I haven't talked with anyone so far who thinks that the removal / adding shrines back and forth and the need to bash up the faith in between the timers on shrine is a fun thing. Losing shrines that takes serious work to rebuild shouldn't be taken lightly. Nor should the only way to win such a conflict be to stomp another sect into a cult. Who'd even want that? And this leads us to...
SECT YIELD <ATTACKING SECT> <CONDITION??>
I am unsure if there should be conditions to this like above or what else could be added to it but it should be something that's a formal "Ok stop we are done". I can think of numberous of things added to this. Unable to build new shrines for 1 IG year? Unable to start war against another sect for X? Unable to defile shrines for X? Et cetera et cetera and of course the most important thing, the bragging rights to the winning sect.
When you read this please ignore the current war between hunger + leechwood / flame. I am not complaining about how it turns out I am just lifting things we discussed between us in magick and mostly my own ideas.
I cannot say I have worked out every single detail or thought about every single scenario, this is a first attempt to raise the discussion. I would love if people would help me bring it up and point out flaws and bad reasoning with construtive reasoning. Also I would love to hear if Admins think about this and if there are any plans for changing it.
Thanks for your time!