Improving Imperian Combat

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  • TheophilusTheophilus Member, Beta Testers Posts: 635 ✭✭✭✭
    If I'm outside the room shooting arrows during team fights, I get no pk experience for helping.

    Can we change this?

    OhmJuran
  • IvelliosIvellios Member Posts: 63 ✭✭
    @theophilus You know if that applies for other ranged combat abilities?  Cause if so, we should change it for more then arrows. 

    Also, want your arrows back. I got tired of being like Boromir and started catching them. :P
    Iniar
  • CaelyaCaelya Member, Historian, Beta Testers Posts: 362 ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 2016
    I personally disagree. If you happen to get a ranged kill, you're credited for that. But if you're just shooting things into combat outside the room like a terrible siege monster (me) or are range blasting people into oblivion, I don't know that you should be rewarded for that, unless you actually make the kill. Get in there and beat people directly and risk death, or accept that you're going to potentially have less glory (and exp).

    Juran
  • JuranJuran OhioMember, Beta Testers Posts: 909 ✭✭✭✭✭
    If I'm outside the room shooting arrows during team fights, I get no pk experience for helping.

    Can we change this?

    I don't see why you, you're not in the room for the XP share.
  • JulesJules Member Posts: 1,080 ✭✭✭
    edited April 2016
    Caelya said:
    I personally disagree. If you happen to get a ranged kill, you're credited for that. But if you're just shooting things into combat outside the room like a terrible siege monster (me) or are range blasting people into oblivion, I don't know that you should be rewarded for that, unless you actually make the kill. Get in there and beat people directly and risk death, or accept that you're going to potentially have less glory (and exp).

    Honestly, working outside the room during the fight -is- different for AM - because of ansuz.  And in particular, ansuz plus prop and forget totem with demonic.  In fact, trying to work outside the room is potentially WAY more dangerous for that reason.   

    The only reason Theo is probably able to do what he does at all, is because they're reserving the ansuz to make doubly sure primary target is absolutely, positively not getting out.  And the only thing I can guess as to why he's not first target is because his dps is good, but it's not burst damage, so he often does get to arrow while they drop less tanky and/or more burst outputting targets, even if there are wytches involved (which there usually are, because they're so useful).  If there aren't wytches, sure, he's doing stuff relatively safely one room out, just like anyone else.  

    EDIT:  changing XP stuffs is very possibly impractical, but let's not pretend working outside the room is the same for all of the circles, basically.
  • JuranJuran OhioMember, Beta Testers Posts: 909 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited April 2016
    I'm just generally against rewarding people for avoiding risk and pretending to be Gurn.

    Edit:
    Jules said:

    EDIT:  changing XP stuffs is very possibly impractical, but let's not pretend working outside the room is the same for all of the circles, basically.

    That's definitely true, Antimagick has telepathy which is way different than the other two circles.
    EldrethTheophilusCaelyaDiceneIniar
  • JulesJules Member Posts: 1,080 ✭✭✭
    edited April 2016
    Oh totally.  I am just saying, the implication that the guy shooting arrows with wytches a room or two away is "not taking a risk" rubs me a bit.  
    TheophilusIluv
  • TheophilusTheophilus Member, Beta Testers Posts: 635 ✭✭✭✭
    I'm not trying to avoid risk. I don't care about dying.

    Doubleshot is just a better offensive strategy than qjab. I just didn't think I should be penalized for using the best offense I have.


  • LartusLartus Member Posts: 264 ✭✭✭
    Fear the vivisect, Evil anti guy. Muahahh
  • JeremyJeremy Administrator Posts: 1,110 admin
    We may look into that. No promises though. Currently swamped getting ready for the ToA.

    TheophilusJules
  • TheophilusTheophilus Member, Beta Testers Posts: 635 ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 2016
    Ignore this post. Doubleshot did 40 damage, qjab did 72.
    Post edited by Theophilus on
  • JuranJuran OhioMember, Beta Testers Posts: 909 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I'm not trying to avoid risk. I don't care about dying.

    Doubleshot is just a better offensive strategy than qjab. I just didn't think I should be penalized for using the best offense I have.


    It's only the best offense you have because you can do it longer without having to consider your defense or actually 'participate' in the fight. They've taken great pains to diminish the impact on ranged combat to discourage people from doing exactly what it is you're doing.
    TheophilusJulesMenoch
  • TheophilusTheophilus Member, Beta Testers Posts: 635 ✭✭✭✭
    But every circle has bows.

    And every circle has ranged attacks outside of bows. Druid with roots, monks with telepathy, and summoners with doppleganger.
    Iluv
  • JulesJules Member Posts: 1,080 ✭✭✭
    edited April 2016
    LoS can be super annoying itself, and has been nerfed in all of the games I think.  It can get especially strong with teams of LoS users.  But there is also a longstanding distinction between "ranged" and LoS.  And strong ranged is generally considered even more irksome (and I think has been even more heavily nerfed, in general).  Theo is doing LoS, not ranged, per se.  

    That said, people seem to agree that even true ranged isn't all bad.  Ranged has been handy in shardfalls recently, because it's a good way to force individuals who run around collecting shards while, say, Magick (Yeah!  Magick!) and AM square off for a good fight, to either leave or die.  But yeah, only AM can do that particular move, I think (radiance) and ranged skills can be pretty annoying in other situations.  Ranged can be a good way to get the fight moving by encouraging someone to make a move, though (this seems to be one of the biggest "positive" uses for ranged skills).


    Post edited by Jules on
    Sevhn
  • MereisMereis Member Posts: 99 ✭✭✭
    Summoner Doppleganger also isn't quite as powerful now, since only one doppleganger can attack a target. Is the same true with doubleshot?
    image
  • IvelliosIvellios Member Posts: 63 ✭✭
    Jules said:
    LoS can be super annoying itself, and has been nerfed in all of the games I think.  It can get especially strong with teams of LoS users.  But there is also a longstanding distinction between "ranged" and LoS.  And strong ranged is generally considered even more irksome (and I think has been even more heavily nerfed, in general).  Theo is doing LoS, not ranged, per se.  

    That said, people seem to agree that even true ranged isn't all bad.  Ranged has been handy in shardfalls recently, because it's a good way to force individuals who run around collecting shards while, say, Magick (Yeah!  Magick!) and AM square off for a good fight, to either leave or die.  But yeah, only AM can do that particular move, I think (radiance) and ranged skills can be pretty annoying in other situations.  Ranged can be a good way to get the fight moving by encouraging someone to make a move, though (this seems to be one of the biggest "positive" uses for ranged skills).


    I die for your amusement.
    AnetteIniarJules
  • AnetteAnette Member Posts: 588 ✭✭✭
    Ivellios said:
    I die for your amusement.

    image
    Sevhn
  • DiceneDicene Member Posts: 913 ✭✭✭✭
    If you're trying to damage kill with qjab instead of tipslash, you're probably doing it wrong. Last I saw, tipslash spam was way higher in dps, plus you lose more if you hit parry or shield or rebounding.
    image
    Theophilus
  • OhmOhm Member Posts: 234 ✭✭✭
    Do meteor arrows trigger deliverance?
    image
  • GarrynGarryn Member, Administrator Posts: 527 admin

    If I'm outside the room shooting arrows during team fights, I get no pk experience for helping.

    Can we change this?

    Not really feasible technically, I'm afraid! Risk/reward assessments aside, we do not track who did how much damage/etc to whom in any easily accessible form.
    Theophilus
  • KhizanKhizan Member Posts: 2,648 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Mereis said:
    Summoner Doppleganger also isn't quite as powerful now, since only one doppleganger can attack a target. Is the same true with doubleshot?
    No, just like it's not limited with bows from Assassins/DKs, either. Summoner dopplegangers have that limitation both because they do far more dps than archery does, and because they have far more offensive options(strip, lust, etc). 

    "On the battlefield I am a god. I love war. The steel, the smell, the corpses. I wish there were more. On the first day I drove the Northmen back alone at the ford. Alone! On the second I carried the bridge! Me! Yesterday I climbed the Heroes! I love war! I… I wish it wasn’t over."

    Mereis
  • KhizanKhizan Member Posts: 2,648 ✭✭✭✭✭
    tear map
    Syntax: TEAR MAP
    H:637/637 M:449/449 B:0 <e-> <db> K:0 R:0 D:0 F:0 Syntax: TEAR MAP
    H:637/637 M:449/449 B:0 <e-> <db> K:0 R:0 D:0 F:0 tear map
    tear map
    Syntax: TEAR MAP
    H:637/637 M:449/449 B:0 <e-> <db> K:0 R:0 D:0 F:0 tear map
    tear map
    Syntax: TEAR MAP
    H:637/637 M:449/449 B:0 <e-> <db> K:0 R:0 D:0 F:0 tear map
    tear map
    tear map
    Syntax: TEAR MAP
    H:637/637 M:449/449 B:0 <e-> <db> K:0 R:0 D:0 F:0 Syntax: TEAR MAP
    H:637/637 M:449/449 B:0 <e-> <db> K:0 R:0 D:0 F:0 Syntax: TEAR MAP
    H:637/637 M:449/449 B:0 <e-> <db> K:0 R:0 D:0 F:0 
    You have recovered balance.
    H:637/637 M:449/449 B:0 <eb> <db> K:0 R:0 D:0 F:0 
     
     ------------- Vasharr stood! Vasharr stood! -----------------
     ------------- Vasharr stood! Vasharr stood! -----------------
     
    Vasharr stands up and stretches his arms out wide.
    H:637/637 M:449/449 B:0 <eb> <db> K:0 R:0 D:0 F:0 Syntax: TEAR MAP
    H:637/637 M:447/449 B:0 <eb> <db> K:0 R:0 D:0 F:0 Syntax: TEAR MAP
    H:637/637 M:447/449 B:0 <eb> <db> K:0 R:0 D:0 F:0 tear map
    tear map
    tear map
    tear map
    Syntax: TEAR MAP
    H:637/637 M:447/449 B:0 <eb> <db> K:0 R:0 D:0 F:0 
    A shimmering, translucent image rises up before you, its glittering surface displaying the verdant grasslands, soaring mounta
    ins, sprawling settlements and deep blue seas of the Aetherian mainland.
    H:637/637 M:447/449 B:0 <eb> <db> K:0 R:0 D:0 F:0 Vasharr reaches out and touches the map, and melts effortlessly into the im
    age.
    H:637/637 M:447/449 B:0 <eb> <db> K:0 R:0 D:0 F:0 
    Grabbing a map of the Aetherian mainland with both hands, you tear it in half. For a few seconds, the pieces shimmer in the a
    ir before bursting in a myriad of flaming fragments that leave behind the faintest trace of smoke.
    Balance Taken: 2.45s
    H:637/637 M:447/449 B:0 <e-> <db> K:0 R:0 D:0 F:0 Syntax: TEAR MAP
    H:637/637 M:447/449 B:0 <e-> <db> K:0 R:0 D:0 F:0 tear map
    tear map

    (Ring): Laeka says, "Vasharr has left the area."
    H:637/637 M:447/449 B:0 <e-> <db> K:0 R:0 D:0 F:0 Syntax: TEAR MAP
    H:637/637 M:447/449 B:0 <e-> <db> K:0 R:0 D:0 F:0 Syntax: TEAR MAP
    H:637/637 M:447/449 B:0 <e-> <db> K:0 R:0 D:0 F:0 tear map
    tear map
    Syntax: TEAR MAP

    Could SOMETHING please stop Universe? This is ridiculous.

    "On the battlefield I am a god. I love war. The steel, the smell, the corpses. I wish there were more. On the first day I drove the Northmen back alone at the ford. Alone! On the second I carried the bridge! Me! Yesterday I climbed the Heroes! I love war! I… I wish it wasn’t over."

    Eldreth
  • JulesJules Member Posts: 1,080 ✭✭✭
    I never, ever really thought about what a curse multiclass could be until today.  I have uh, 3 professions that truly get used.  Priest seems to be almost dead in the water for AM despite not being bad at all, and I have a tiny bit of Pred in case I ever wanted to get serious about infiltrating places.  So in truth I have Templar, Outrider (which I hardly ever use lately, but so much better if you are going to get jumped) and Cheesy Monk.  I will probably pick up berserker at some point too, because it can definitely come in handy in a pinch.  

    But guess what.  Every damned time we drastically switch team makeup (which we have to sometimes, and which makes complete sense within the context of a dynamic multiclass system), I derp around in class I have not really played for awhile, and probably never truly mastered, or even really got semi comfortable with.  I bet other people experience this too.  It is sort of a blessing and a curse to be able to switch the way we do, and to have it potentially matter as much as it does.  I don't know what the answer is, but it's something to think about.
  • LartusLartus Member Posts: 264 ✭✭✭
    What?
    Eldreth
  • KhizanKhizan Member Posts: 2,648 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I'm pretty sure that she's just saying that she gets all wrongfooted every time she switches profession and that she's split across so many classes that she's not really comfortable with most of them.

    "On the battlefield I am a god. I love war. The steel, the smell, the corpses. I wish there were more. On the first day I drove the Northmen back alone at the ford. Alone! On the second I carried the bridge! Me! Yesterday I climbed the Heroes! I love war! I… I wish it wasn’t over."

    Jules
  • JulesJules Member Posts: 1,080 ✭✭✭
    >.>

    Basically, multiclass, especially the way Imperian does it, makes combat very dynamic.  That is either awesome and interesting, or "oh god, Team Monk makes total sense right now, but am I ready to Monk properly"?

    So you derp along with a few pretty basic attack aliases and in theory that is all you might need.  In practice... you probably need a bit more.  You eventually remember that you put kai heal in your main active heal alias way back when - after you forgot all about that for at least 25 fights or so... But yay, it's there.  You grumble at yourself that you never really wrapped up the class' defs and your def keeper is pretty much "tap armguards".  That sort of thing.    

    It is the difference between doing one job and getting to be pretty comfortable with it, and being an accountant for a bit, until there is suddenly an urgent need for trapeze artists.  "But my high wire act is pretty rusty and was never all that great", you say.  "We're going to be working with nets, right?  Also, you can claim the accidental death insurance as a write-off".
  • IluvIluv Member Posts: 703 ✭✭✭✭
    I really don't think it's that hard.
    image
  • JulesJules Member Posts: 1,080 ✭✭✭
    edited July 2016
    I don't really know what they could even do about it, without ruining it for the people who love switching classes constantly and instantly, but it definitely adds a pretty big layer of complexity.  It's true in so many ways.  Before any given fight, or even -between- fights, what do we all do?  We want to figure out who is in which class, whether someone switched, or is switching, and how we should react to that, for example.  

    It's neat, but it's a lot.
  • ZarimZarim Member, Beta Testers Posts: 85 ✭✭✭
    The obvious fix is to turn everyone into monks permanently. We can all be kung fu fighting as fast as lightning, and every group fight will consist of thirty people staring at each other with glowing, hope-filled eyes.

    Equality ftw
    SeptusJules
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