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Gjarrus ✭✭✭

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Gjarrus
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  • Re: Raiding

    Jeremy said:

    Are you losing right now. Yes. But that is mainly because you're not really doing a good job organizing. Khandava and Kinsarmar should not have too much of a problem taking back objectives from Antioch if you group together and plan it out a bit more.  

    Okay. I'm about to get ill when you're going to throw that out there literally after a bug ruined a likely successful raid, disregarding every other problem.

    100% not going to participate any more off the last two responses.

    E: And I don't agree with Swale that the debuff is a bad idea, just bad in an open beta test. But whatever.
    Jeremy SaundersAodan
  • Re: Obelisk/War Update

    @Kyraic




    PvP success has definitely translated into political power, no argument from me there. As has been said, it's non-mechanical and comes with responsibilities (theoretically) with a limited pool of positions (not so much a problem with current population), so it's difficult to factor that into the risk/reward system for PvP.

    Since PK experience doesn't come with the same expected gold income as hunting/questing, characters have to grind out gold to get aspect perks (thus getting the experience anyway), turn it into blood drops, or be content seeing how high they can get in RANKINGS PK. More reserves are nice, and I guess you can also consider it income if you have time in between every bout to drop 10 transmutes? All that said, this is less a problem with PK experience values and more a problem with the value of experience post-Aspect.

    Conversely, I can make a few creds worth of gold or more an hour while hunting, gaining more experience overall due to manageable risk and not having to wait on targets to show up. I can spread the gold or drag people along to gain influence. If I'm not trying to build belief or turning in corpses for quests, hunting through the adrenaline/anatomy/wildlife timers and staggering sacrifices is enough to transmute a ridiculous amount. If I have enough people for boss fights, that's even more value from rarer relics, temp artis, and the crushables.

    @Juran

    How is a raiding system 'instant gratification' but Obelisk fights aren't? Assuming the energy system is carried over, the only difference is in how the fights play out.

    How is theme parking it in a more important in-game area with similar mechanics worse than instancing it to 'islands'? People overwhelmingly voted for option B over option A for that reason.

    PvP XP loss is fine with me, even if there are still times when doing said stalking is rewarding in the current game when you play it.

    AnetteIniarZorantizAyden
  • Re: Obelisk/War Update

    Edit: Look at those beautiful bullets :|
    I do agree that losing a raid and/or pvp should feel a bit more painful. I will have to think about that a bit more.
    From a character perspective:

    PvP is an activity where you're spending more gold than you're earning. Engaging in PvP, even more so open PK, barely advances your character in the sense of actual power barring rare circumstances like the ToC. Do you expect thwacking people with a stick when there's no carrot to be effective? Make PvP generate gold, not burn it, and then you can really start talking about adding risk into a currently rewardless endeavor. Otherwise, people will continue to PvP only if they really want to fight.
    With regards to raiding, personal objective scores that payout a salary every so often (7-12 days?) would be a way to reward participants and open up the ability to harshly punish people who selectively participate in raids (while not really impacting people who won't be PvPing anyway) with a % objective point loss.

    From the city perspective:

    Obelisks are stealable buffs, so losing a fight for one would have built-in downsides.

    You can maybe pull a variation of the objective point salary on a city scale. Once the raid is over, add My Side Points - Enemy Side Points to the city OP pool. The payout would need to be stuck inside a non-withdrawable account to prevent it from funneling out to players, but it could be used to pay for city expenditures.

    You can also thwack lightly here to encourage participation by reducing OP gain as the force equalization use is strained past expectations, e.g. 4 possible defenders are on, but only 2 show up which triggers force equalization and an OP loss.

    Then just tweak the reward for non-obelisk objectives to things like:

    Generator - Raiders burn through generator energy and shard power (reducing frequency of target city's raiding). Stealing instead of destroying could be an option, but it would have to be low enough that the strong cities don't just cycle through other cities and pilfer the generator for a constant OP gain.

    Vanity Item - Tougher fight, but doubles the final OP exchange.

    Guard Barracks - Reduces effective force equalization in future raids by X or Y% rounded up for a duration of Z. So, 5 raiders, 3 defenders join in, equalization acts like it's 4 defenders. Z should be lengthy enough that it stacks a couple times.

    Shield/Gates - Reduces raid initiation cost versus city (for all other cities) for a time.

    Housing District - Increases fear throughout the city's holding, with aforementioned bits on comm production woes kept in mind. It'd be nifty if the objective was completed by slaughtering through waves of poor NPC civilians.

    Library - Steal sekrit book of knowledge with 7 month decay, adding a buff to the next raid on that city based on objective type. It takes a library (two) months to fully decipher the text, so a counter-raid on the library can potentially steal the knowledge before then. Raiders could choose between a book belonging to their own city or a random book in storage. Once the book was deciphered, it could be exchanged or held onto until the book is activated for the buff.

    Weapons Locker - Increased city raid mob attack damage for raider city, decreased for defenders.



    ------
    With these changes, raids would give an option to do damage to both enemy players and factions while improving your own faction, and it improves the rewards of PvP enough on the character level to get more people motivated to participate and learn how to be successful.









    AnetteIniarAydenZorantiz
  • Re: Obelisk/War Update

    Not having a bonus is a consequence. A small consequence on a city scale is a consequence. Both of these things have been suggested in this system. If you don't like where those are at now, start actually naming consequence and reward changes to make the system fit what you have in mind rather than just saying "YEAH CONSEQUENCES". If your problem is no consequences in other areas in the game as it exists, then that's off the topic. At least Kyraic put a ballpark figure out there for what he thinks is a legitimate raid consequence.

    Anyway.

    I don't disagree with @Juran on most of his points (especially help files), but focus spread has always been a problem. If they want to fix obelisks in their current state, then fine, go for that. If they want to switch to a raiding system, then the obelisks should probably be rolled over into that.

    4hill+1 super hill KOTH isn't something I personally had fun with, but that's my opinion. It could definitely be included in the possible fight schemes.



    Anette