Raiding

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  • OwynOwyn USPosts: 31 ✭✭
    Cyr said:
    Swale said:
     because "we have 3 people and they have 8 and 2 of those 8 are Septus and Cyr" etc... 
    I don't know what you're talking about, I can't think of a single time we've had 8 people, and even the closest we get to that, we're bringing noncoms to help us, not seasoned fighters. Moreover most of the fights Septus and I go to, we're either on even footing, or outnumbered. 

    Just now. :D Just now you had 8 people. But that's not the point of the post. I just wanted to lol @Septus yelling angry things at me. <3 Also, I tried to  get @Jules on, and once again @Alvetta still at work. Tried to do something interesting and counter-raid, but me, @Pellerin, and @Theophilus does not a defense team make, much  less a split team with me trying to solo grab Aranel. Didn't work out. Oh well.
    Theophilus
  • CelestineCelestine WisconsinPosts: 244 ✭✭✭
    Owyn said:
    Cyr said:
    Swale said:
     because "we have 3 people and they have 8 and 2 of those 8 are Septus and Cyr" etc... 
    I don't know what you're talking about, I can't think of a single time we've had 8 people, and even the closest we get to that, we're bringing noncoms to help us, not seasoned fighters. Moreover most of the fights Septus and I go to, we're either on even footing, or outnumbered. 

    Just now. :D Just now you had 8 people. But that's not the point of the post. I just wanted to lol @Septus yelling angry things at me. <3 Also, I tried to  get @Jules on, and once again @Alvetta still at work. Tried to do something interesting and counter-raid, but me, @Pellerin, and @Theophilus does not a defense team make, much  less a split team with me trying to solo grab Aranel. Didn't work out. Oh well.
    We had five people. Myself, Septus, Cyr, Dyun and Laeka. Not eight.
    image
    OwynSeptus
  • TheophilusTheophilus Posts: 650 ✭✭✭✭
    Celestine said:
    Owyn said:
    Cyr said:
    Swale said:
     because "we have 3 people and they have 8 and 2 of those 8 are Septus and Cyr" etc... 
    I don't know what you're talking about, I can't think of a single time we've had 8 people, and even the closest we get to that, we're bringing noncoms to help us, not seasoned fighters. Moreover most of the fights Septus and I go to, we're either on even footing, or outnumbered. 

    Just now. :D Just now you had 8 people. But that's not the point of the post. I just wanted to lol @Septus yelling angry things at me. <3 Also, I tried to  get @Jules on, and once again @Alvetta still at work. Tried to do something interesting and counter-raid, but me, @Pellerin, and @Theophilus does not a defense team make, much  less a split team with me trying to solo grab Aranel. Didn't work out. Oh well.
    We had five people. Myself, Septus, Cyr, Dyun and Laeka. Not eight.
    Septus counts as 4.
    OwynAodanAlvettaIniar
  • EtienneEtienne Posts: 45 ✭✭✭
    We were riding the strugglebus because it was only letting Dagr and I use miasma so everyone else was getting nuked. We failed our hero rush, but it was a fun sort of chaos.
    Theophilus
  • TheophilusTheophilus Posts: 650 ✭✭✭✭
    Oh, so yet another bug. I see.
    Fanglor
  • GjarrusGjarrus Posts: 248 ✭✭✭
    edited March 2
    While @Dec had pretty epic response time to my bug about the miasma, that was disheartening.


    Theophilus
  • OystirOystir Posts: 291 ✭✭✭
    edited March 2
    Septus said:

    To be fair I think we've seen how things pan out pretty well. Antioch alone has done at least 10 raids just against Kinsarmar, and all but three were heavily contested. I don't think its accurate at all to say that raids only happen when everyone is offline.

    Not to say timezones aren't an issue, but we've definitely seen both sides of things in the raids that have been going on.

    To be fair, 90% of those raids where while guards were bugged and virtually useless and it was common knowledge.
     You say, "This is much harder than just being a normal person."
  • DyunDyun Posts: 13
    The only guard bug I've seen was you moving 15+ into our room while we were miasma'd tho
  • OystirOystir Posts: 291 ✭✭✭
    edited March 2
    The 13 bugs I posted about a few pages ago were persistent from before that raid - that was raid 3 of 7? The only reason I did that was because they weren't working any other way. I was pissy vocal about them here on the forums and mentioned them to Septus at least once in-game with the hope that he'd back off a little until they were fixed - which is the opposite of what happened. 

    Edit: If you remember, they also fixed that bug immediately while not addressing the other problems that existed with guards prior to that incident, including the other problems created with that bug fix, for over a week with at least 3 more raids. 
     You say, "This is much harder than just being a normal person."
  • OystirOystir Posts: 291 ✭✭✭
    Oystir said:
    A Bardic healer's arrival from the east is preceded by a crescendo of harp music. The music dies down as a Bardic healer leaves to the north. The music dies down as a Bardic healer leaves to the west. The music dies down as a Bardic healer leaves to the in. The music dies down as a Bardic healer leaves to the down. The music dies down as a Bardic healer leaves to the east. The music dies down as a Bardic healer leaves to the south. The music dies down as a Bardic healer leaves to the in. The music dies down as a Bardic healer leaves to the down. The music dies down as a Bardic healer leaves to the in. A Bardic healer's arrival from the in is preceded by a crescendo of harp music. H:610/610 M:302/310 (eb db) [100|45.99] [Septus RAID] (DAM) [0 0] [blk bee] [] You grab Aranel, the Archivist around the neck and begin dragging to the in. H:610/610 M:310/310 (eb db) [100|45.99] [Septus RAID] (DAM) [0 0] [blk bee] [] (Ring): You say, "Moving in with Aranel, the Archivist." H:610/610 M:310/310 (eb db) [100|45.99] [Septus RAID] (DAM) [0 0] [blk bee] [] You may drink another healing elixir. H:610/610 M:310/310 (eb db) [100|45.99] [Septus RAID] (DAM) [0 0] [blk bee] [] (Ring): Theophilus says, "Target: ultrix." H:610/610 M:310/310 (eb db) [100|45.99] [Septus RAID] (DAM) [0 0] [blk bee] [] A Bardic healer's arrival from the down is preceded by a crescendo of harp music. The music dies down as a Bardic healer leaves to the west. The music dies down as a Bardic healer leaves to the down. The music dies down as a Bardic healer leaves to the north. The music dies down as a Bardic healer leaves to the down. The music dies down as a Bardic healer leaves to the in. The music dies down as a Bardic healer leaves to the north. The music dies down as a Bardic healer leaves to the west. The music dies down as a Bardic healer leaves to the in. A Bardic healer's arrival from the in is preceded by a crescendo of harp music. H:610/610 M:310/310 (eb db) [100|45.99] [Septus RAID] (DAM) [0 0] [blk bee] [] You are again able to clot your wounds properly. H:610/610 M:310/310 (eb db) [100|45.99] [Septus RAID] (DAM) [0 0] [blk bee] [] You suddenly perceive the vague outline of an aura of rebounding around Alvetta. H:610/610 M:310/310 (eb db) [100|45.99] [Septus RAID] (DAM) [0 0] [blk bee] [] You may eat another toadstool. H:610/610 M:310/310 (eb db) [100|45.99] [Septus RAID] (DAM) [0 0] [blk bee] [] A Bardic healer's arrival from the west is preceded by a crescendo of harp music. The music dies down as a Bardic healer leaves to the west. The music dies down as a Bardic healer leaves to the in. The music dies down as a Bardic healer leaves to the west. The music dies down as a Bardic healer leaves to the down. The music dies down as a Bardic healer leaves to the in. The music dies down as a Bardic healer leaves to the north. The music dies down as a Bardic healer leaves to the in. The music dies down as a Bardic healer leaves to the east. The music dies down as a Bardic healer leaves to the in. The music dies down as a Bardic healer leaves to the south. H:610/610 M:291/310 (eb db) [100|45.99] [Septus RAID] (DAM) [0 0] [blk bee] [] A Bardic healer's arrival from the down is preceded by a crescendo of harp music. The music dies down as a Bardic healer leaves to the in. The music dies down as a Bardic healer leaves to the north. The music dies down as a Bardic healer leaves to the down. The music dies down as a Bardic healer leaves to the in. The music dies down as a Bardic healer leaves to the south. The music dies down as a Bardic healer leaves to the in. The music dies down as a Bardic healer leaves to the west. The music dies down as a Bardic healer leaves to the in. Hand moving to his sword, a Runeguard Knight walks off to the west. A Bardic healer's arrival from the west is preceded by a crescendo of harp music. A Bardic healer's arrival from the north is preceded by a crescendo of harp music. The music dies down as a Bardic healer leaves to the south. The music dies down as a Bardic healer leaves to the down. The music dies down as a Bardic healer leaves to the west. The music dies down as a Bardic healer leaves to the down. The music dies down as a Bardic healer leaves to the in. The music dies down as a Bardic healer leaves to the west. The music dies down as a Bardic healer leaves to the in. The music dies down as a Bardic healer leaves to the in. A Bardic healer's arrival from the in is preceded by a crescendo of harp music. Hand moving to his sword, a Runeguard Knight walks off to the west. A Bardic healer's arrival from the south is preceded by a crescendo of harp music. Accompanied by the sound of metal, a Runeguard Knight enters from the west. The music dies down as a Bardic healer leaves to the west. The music dies down as a Bardic healer leaves to the in. The music dies down as a Bardic healer leaves to the east. The music dies down as a Bardic healer leaves to the down. The music dies down as a Bardic healer leaves to the in. The music dies down as a Bardic healer leaves to the south. The music dies down as a Bardic healer leaves to the down. The music dies down as a Bardic healer leaves to the in. The music dies down as a Bardic healer leaves to the down. Accompanied by the sound of metal, a Runeguard Knight enters from the in. Hand moving to his sword, a Runeguard Knight walks off to the in. Accompanied by the sound of metal, a Runeguard Knight enters from the west. H:610/610 M:291/310 (eb db) [100|45.99] [Septus RAID] (DAM) [0 0] [blk bee] [] 

    And I know you saw stuff like this during more than one raid. 
     You say, "This is much harder than just being a normal person."
  • FanglorFanglor Posts: 50 ✭✭
    Someone needs to post in html....
    TheophilusAodan
  • SwaleSwale Posts: 44
    Some of the bug stuff is part of what made me feel like people are playing "for keeps" and that somehow this all became sort of srs bsns :(  There was at least one bug that I am pretty sure we were basically the last to know about (the push bug).  I deeply wish we'd all been turned loose on the beta server for a lot of this, but oh well.  
  • SeptusSeptus Posts: 696 ✭✭✭✭
    Swale said:
    Some of the bug stuff is part of what made me feel like people are playing "for keeps" and that somehow this all became sort of srs bsns :(  There was at least one bug that I am pretty sure we were basically the last to know about (the push bug).  I deeply wish we'd all been turned loose on the beta server for a lot of this, but oh well.  

    I mean, I'm not going to lie and say we don't play to win. We do. I think most people go into things hoping to beat the opposition.

    That said, for us at least this is just a bit of fun figuring out the best strategies to steal objectives and finding out various timings for things. I think its as serious business as you want to make it. Personally, the idea of losing an objective doesn't really bother me. Just an opportunity for glorious revenge (and potential cataclysmic failure).

    Theophilus
  • DyunDyun Posts: 13
    That three way raid last night had potential for cataclysmic failure for sure. I've split raid two cities at once in my IRE career but I've never held an offensive raid while two were happening back home. Thanks, Imperian. 
  • TheophilusTheophilus Posts: 650 ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 2
    Dyun said:
     Thanks, Imperian. 
    Bugs.

    Sorry -- clearly I'm still salty.  :(
  • DyunDyun Posts: 13
    We can do it again after the bug fixes, of course!
    Theophilus
  • OystirOystir Posts: 291 ✭✭✭
    Septus said:
    Swale said:
    Some of the bug stuff is part of what made me feel like people are playing "for keeps" and that somehow this all became sort of srs bsns :(  There was at least one bug that I am pretty sure we were basically the last to know about (the push bug).  I deeply wish we'd all been turned loose on the beta server for a lot of this, but oh well.  

    I mean, I'm not going to lie and say we don't play to win. We do. I think most people go into things hoping to beat the opposition.

    That said, for us at least this is just a bit of fun figuring out the best strategies to steal objectives and finding out various timings for things. I think its as serious business as you want to make it. Personally, the idea of losing an objective doesn't really bother me. Just an opportunity for glorious revenge (and potential cataclysmic failure).


    The system is fun but it needs some work before I personally will enjoy it more than the frustration I've had so far. The guard bug was super annoying anyway but it was extremely aggravating because you raided us a week straight and we had to wait on the admin for things. That's not exactly anyone's fault but it was not a good week for me. This plus the exploitation of mechanics to accomplish effects that are obvious bugs or oversights, which again, not really anyone's fault. A little sportsmanship would have gone a long way but I can't really blame you for wanting to win and using the existing tools to do it. 

    This situation has me quite critical of things overall of the system but like I said, I think it'll be quite fun when it gets moving completely and when I stop expecting frustration. 

     You say, "This is much harder than just being a normal person."
  • SeptusSeptus Posts: 696 ✭✭✭✭

    Define sportsmanship.

    I'm not sure what exploitation of mechanics you mean, to be honest. We weren't going to not use the system while an issue that was clearly stated to be very nontrivial was resolved - those can take anywhere from a day to a month to fix. Not really sure what other issues you could be refering to though. I think pretty much every raid by every org has been pretty restrained. There's a lot of cheese people could be employing that they aren't, which is nice.

  • OystirOystir Posts: 291 ✭✭✭
    And admin, l would personally be very thankful for more visibility in the game if that is something that is possible. It's been kind of a rough time contacting you lately through just bug reports, it seems like posting on forums is the best way to get in touch with anyone without filtering all of the all communication through Jeremy, and sometimes I just want to ask a question. :( 
     You say, "This is much harder than just being a normal person."
  • OystirOystir Posts: 291 ✭✭✭
    edited March 2
    @Septus I'm not really interested in complaining more specifically than that, and definitely not in the raid thread on the forums. :p 

    Like I said it really doesn't matter except that I'm not enjoying raids as much as you are for reasons outside of my control but that's just how it goes. I'm optimistic for the system as things continue to change but as is no secret I think there are quite a few considerations that should be made and a lot of issues up until this point. 

    Edit: inb4 get guud 
     You say, "This is much harder than just being a normal person."
  • Jeremy SaundersJeremy Saunders Posts: 1,135 admin
    Oystir said:
    And admin, l would personally be very thankful for more visibility in the game if that is something that is possible. It's been kind of a rough time contacting you lately through just bug reports, it seems like posting on forums is the best way to get in touch with anyone without filtering all of the all communication through Jeremy, and sometimes I just want to ask a question. :( 
    Don't hesitate to just message me. It's not a big deal.

    Druu
  • EoghanEoghan Posts: 682 mod
    Oystir said:
    And admin, l would personally be very thankful for more visibility in the game if that is something that is possible. It's been kind of a rough time contacting you lately through just bug reports, it seems like posting on forums is the best way to get in touch with anyone without filtering all of the all communication through Jeremy, and sometimes I just want to ask a question. :( 
    To add to what Jeremy said:

    The preferred method of reporting issues is bug reports. They're viewable by all entities, and let our coders coordinate work on them (and make sure they know about them). We often have no updates on these until they're fixed and closed purely because that's how the process of fixing those bugs works. This should always be, at a minimum, your first step for something that may be a bug.

    A second step (or a first step if it is just a question) can take one of two forms:
    1. You can also send short questions to a number of us individually. We won't be instantly responsive, but at the very least we can try to get your question to the right person. I suggest taking a look at HELP CONTACTS as a starting point. As Jeremy said, feel free to message us.
    2. You can file an issue asking for clarification about something. If someone is capable of answering it or handling it, they may do so. Ultimately the final stop for all issues is Jeremy. There is no timeline guarantee on issues being handled or questions being answered, but I generally respond within a day to questions that I can answer without approval being required or the questions being passed on to someone with the ability to answer them.
    Posting on the forums is SOMETIMES a reliable way to reach A SUBSET of us. It is not a sanctioned method of communication (because we can't guarantee a response to any particular post on the forums), but we do read the forums as part of our day. Usually. For some of us.
    Like what we're doing? Why not take a second to vote? Vote for Imperian at http://www.imperian.com/vote
  • DruuDruu The GardenPosts: 30 ✭✭
    I love answering messages, I just don't really get very many. As far as bugs that I personally fix, I do a lot of stuff with helpfiles and typos, because those are in my realm of control. Also, some of the quest stuff and other misc things. I do also read forums semi-regularly, but not really in depth like some of the others. We're here for sure! Just make sure you use all the avenues of communication which exist. That's my two cents on it.
  • CaelyaCaelya Posts: 364 ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 3
    Is there any way that we can get each person in RAIDERS added to the millog of whatever city/council is being raided? It would be really useful for bounty purposes.

    CelestineGjarrus
  • SwaleSwale Posts: 44
    edited March 3
    The skill gap is just... even worse than I thought, honestly (and I knew it was BAD).  We are.  Absolutely terrible at raiding.  And so is everyone who isn't AM.

    I don't think you can truly gain ground against people who are just actually smarter than everyone else.  And that's before you factor in all of the years of experience.  People don't like to admit/talk about that sort of thing in general, whether in a game or otherwise, because it's such a direct ego hit, but it's definitely a thing.  I mean, there is a reason some people are chess masters and physicists and some people work at Walmart, and a lot of people are somewhere in between.  It shouldn't mean the people who aren't chess masters are "worthless", but it's just unrealistic to expect them to accomplish the same things the other group can.  And I think in a game, it's going to mean beating your (dumb) head against a brick wall without some careful consideration to make things less... frustrating.  And raiding, more than anything else, is going to REALLY rub your nose in it.

    Our raid last night was an absolute trainwreck, and on that one we really had no one to blame but ourselves.  The problem with that gamewise, is I think it tends to stall things out fairly quickly.  It's more noticeable/immediate here in Imperian because we're pretty small.

    EDIT:  basically, the answer has been brought up in several forms, but I don't think anyone has any concrete solutions that feel like a definite "oh yeah, that will work" so far, although people have spitballed a few things.  You have to find a way to allow the weaker orgs to scrape some of their dignity off the pavement and give them realistic hope of getting their goodies back (with some improvement in teamwork/tactics - which IS possible, I don't mean to sound like I am saying we can't improve, because we absolutely can, and have).
    Post edited by Swale on
    AodanFanglorTheophilus
  • AodanAodan Posts: 35 ✭✭
    edited March 3
    Swale said:
    The skill gap is just... even worse than I thought, honestly (and I knew it was BAD).  We are.  Absolutely terrible at raiding.  And so is everyone who isn't AM.

    I don't think you can truly gain ground against people who are just actually smarter than everyone else.  And that's before you factor in all of the years of experience.  People don't like to admit/talk about that sort of thing in general, whether in a game or otherwise, because it's such a direct ego hit, but it's definitely a thing.  I mean, there is a reason some people are chess masters and physicists and some people work at Walmart, and a lot of people are somewhere in between.  It shouldn't mean the people who aren't chess masters are "worthless", but it's just unrealistic to expect them to accomplish the same things the other group can.  And I think in a game, it's going to mean beating your (dumb) head against a brick wall without some careful consideration to make things less... frustrating.  And raiding, more than anything else, is going to REALLY rub your nose in it.

    Our raid last night was an absolute trainwreck, and on that one we really had no one to blame but ourselves.  The problem with that gamewise, is I think it tends to stall things out fairly quickly.  It's more noticeable/immediate here in Imperian because we're pretty small.

    EDIT:  basically, the answer has been brought up in several forms, but I don't think anyone has any concrete solutions that feel like a definite "oh yeah, that will work" so far, although people have spitballed a few things.  You have to find a way to allow the weaker orgs to scrape some of their dignity off the pavement and give them realistic hope of getting their goodies back (with some improvement in teamwork/tactics - which IS possible, I don't mean to sound like I am saying we can't improve, because we absolutely can, and have).
    I'm going to have to disagree with you there. Skill was a little part of it, but the major cause of the train wreck was the cluster**** we call magick. too many people calling out too many things making it impossible for people like me who have never been on an offensive raid to know what the hell is going on so that I can get back into the fray. instead I walked blindly into antioch at least 3 different times getting instagibbed by guards. No one offered to tell me what was going down, what I should do, nothing, it went from being silly in the ring to what the **** just happened and why wasn't I told? help raid can only give a person so much information. Take the time to actually train people like you promise, instead of complaining about skill gap. I can't learn everything on my own.
    Post edited by Eoghan on
    LynyssaCaelyaEtienneTheophilus
  • SwaleSwale Posts: 44
    edited March 3
    Sorry about that.  That was just one of the things we did wrong, and we can do better.  There is some low hanging fruit/housekeeping stuff that is frustratingly persistent, but I feel absolutely fixable.  And when we gain some traction there we WILL see a big boost.  

    But we're still fighting some guys who literally never lose, other than the occasional one off.  And haven't (lost, to ANYONE) in ~15 years.  That's the piece I was looking at.
  • AodanAodan Posts: 35 ✭✭
    Swale said:
    Sorry about that.  That was just one of the things we did wrong, and we can do better.  There is some low hanging fruit/housekeeping stuff that is frustratingly persistent, but I feel absolutely fixable.  And when we gain some traction there we WILL see a big boost.  

    But we're still fighting some guys who literally never lose, other than the occasional one off.  And haven't (lost) in ~15 years.  That's the piece I was looking at.
    a good portion of magick used to be on that team. none of you have really taught me anything meaningful from your experience there. so what's the deal? the only real advice I've gotten was something along the lines of, if you're going into an even fight, you're doing it wrong. You should always take the advantage when you have it, and even that advice failed last night. I'm honestly just tired of the negativity, and the idea that 1 circ--city(who's ithaqua again?) is better than the rest. The point still remains, you have people willing to learn, and get on that tier, and you(general you, cause I'm pretty miffed with all of magick) say you'll help, but you never do.
    LynyssaTheophilus
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