Relics

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Comments

  • AleutiaAleutia Member, Historian Posts: 363 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited June 2014

    I don’t like the idea of taking something that’s supposed to resound with the org as a whole and instead shove it into a sect-based power item. I also think it’s equally crappy that for being such an icon, only a small amount of Kinsarmar’s population would even get to benefit from the spear if it was used.

    I do like the more obscure names being brought to prominence with this system, though. It gives players a reason to explore the history of the game, which few people do.

    I have a question about this, @Jeremy:

    Saving Relics

    Completed relics and fragments will decay if left in your inventory. They must be stored in a reliquary in your cult or sect temple. Fragments in the reliquary will not decay, but can be stolen by other players. Stolen fragments are recorded to org logs, and players can be killed for theft.


    Is the reliquary inside the actual sect/cult temple? How will stealing occur? If you have to directly access the reliquary, people are just going to lock them behind doors, take extra precautions when they go in the room, and call it a day.
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  • KhizanKhizan Member Posts: 2,648 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited June 2014

    I am fairly sure that when I was building my temple in Flame I was told that the temples weren't going to be allowed to be locked and that they'd have be publically accessible. 

    I know that I asked Samaos about a secret passage leading to a ritual room at the heart of the pyramid and she said that I couldn't have an Sect-only door, that it had to be open to everybody. On the other hand, I also know that the Jackal temple is entirely behind a locked door right now(or was the last time I checked), and I believe that the Conquest temple is like that, too. So I have no idea what actually became of that rule.

    It would be easy enough to mandate that the reliquary would have to be in a publically accessible part of the temple, though, or just make it part of the altar.

    "On the battlefield I am a god. I love war. The steel, the smell, the corpses. I wish there were more. On the first day I drove the Northmen back alone at the ford. Alone! On the second I carried the bridge! Me! Yesterday I climbed the Heroes! I love war! I… I wish it wasn’t over."

  • SarriusSarrius Member Posts: 1,319 ✭✭✭✭
    You can lock anything behind a door because temple construction allows the usage of lock work. You can thus lock the reliquary room and never give away the key
  • AleutiaAleutia Member, Historian Posts: 363 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I've never heard of that. I know the Leechwood temple is locked away behind a door, and I think at this point I'm literally the only one with a key. If it's something they physically have to be present at, I'd much rather it be at the altar instead of people breaking into temples all the time. I do partially like the idea of public/private temples, though. I'm on the fence, really. Old god temples generally had a public/private section, but not all of them did. I guess it would rather depend on the sect rp on which way people would choose, or a clear admin ruling.

    I forgot to put this in my question - when you steal fragments, can you steal all of them at once or will it be one at a time? Is there some mechanic in place to slow you down or alert the sect/cult you're stealing aside from just a log record?
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  • SvoraiSvorai Member, Moderator, Immortal Posts: 293 mod
    The rule is, if you want a special entrance it cannot have any restrictions on it. This means, if you need to touch rock to enter your temple - everyone - can touch the rock. This goes for front door and all rooms inside. Locked doors are fine, as it is part of the system.
  • AhkanAhkan TexasMember Posts: 2,375 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited June 2014
    @Khizan

    Incorrect assumptions sir.

    Spear of destiny.

    There's also a crown of thorns, some nails, a shroud. They're all relics too. The spear is just the most well known.
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  • KhizanKhizan Member Posts: 2,648 ✭✭✭✭✭

    If you made Nathariel's pauldron, his gauntlet, and his armored codpiece into relics, the spear that he's famous for would be a glaring omission. It would be like making the Crown of Thorns, the Spear of Destiny, and the Grail into relics and leaving out the Nails. It wouldn't make any sense and people would want to know why it wasn't a relic when it's so clearly deserving of the status.

    "On the battlefield I am a god. I love war. The steel, the smell, the corpses. I wish there were more. On the first day I drove the Northmen back alone at the ford. Alone! On the second I carried the bridge! Me! Yesterday I climbed the Heroes! I love war! I… I wish it wasn’t over."

  • SarriusSarrius Member Posts: 1,319 ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 2014
    Can we include godly artifacts, like Janus' Pimp Cup/Chalice of Spring? Or is that a little too "the divine!"? I could see them being an even higher tier of powers that are a lot more individual and interesting.
  • AhkanAhkan TexasMember Posts: 2,375 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited June 2014
    No one want's Janus' pimp cup. What did Janus win at the end of his reign? Nothing. No one likes losers. (He died saving AM. That's just bad decision making.)

    @Khizan

    That's just your personal opinion presenting itself as a wily straw man for the sake of being contrary. You can fabricate any BS story to explain why the spear of nathariel is underwhelming. Touched by failure going on two ages? Used in the newsroom as a pen too often? Ihsan touched it? It's not the real spear? Yadda Yadda. Yawn.

    Thematic inconsistencies are pretty easy to address with competent writing or try-hard roleplay.
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  • KhizanKhizan Member Posts: 2,648 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Ahkan said:
    It's not the real spear?

    This is the exact idea I proposed and it's the exact idea that Kanthari had a problem with, on the grounds that it would invalidate the Spear as an object.

    My point is that having a Spear that's not a relic is tacitly invalidating it because the Silver Spear is definitely a relic-class item, and for it to be not-a-relic means that there is something wrong with it.

    "On the battlefield I am a god. I love war. The steel, the smell, the corpses. I wish there were more. On the first day I drove the Northmen back alone at the ford. Alone! On the second I carried the bridge! Me! Yesterday I climbed the Heroes! I love war! I… I wish it wasn’t over."

    Menoch
  • Jeremy SaundersJeremy Saunders Administrator Posts: 1,135 admin
    Guys. I almost didn't put the actually 'saints' on three because I knew it would devolve the  argument like this. I actually thought the temporary numbers I put on there would devolve it even more. 

    Right now I just need feed back on the idea of the system. I will work out the actual saints and items a bit more later.

    Aleutia said:

    I have a question about this, @Jeremy:

    Saving Relics

    Completed relics and fragments will decay if left in your inventory. They must be stored in a reliquary in your cult or sect temple. Fragments in the reliquary will not decay, but can be stolen by other players. Stolen fragments are recorded to org logs, and players can be killed for theft.


    Is the reliquary inside the actual sect/cult temple? How will stealing occur? If you have to directly access the reliquary, people are just going to lock them behind doors, take extra precautions when they go in the room, and call it a day.
    This part I am not super sure about. We talked about storing them at the altar. We have talked about making it a room in the temple that enemy players would have to get lucky to get into. I am not even sure this is the system we want to do. I like players being able to just keep them in their inventory and trade them around more freely.

    Iniar
  • IluvIluv Member Posts: 703 ✭✭✭✭
    Altar makes sense so the altar only rituals can get some more use.






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  • AhkanAhkan TexasMember Posts: 2,375 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited June 2014
    @Jeremy I think you could influence relic placement based on use and even incorporate new relics/functions. 

    Example: The relic of Czevak doesn't fit chilling out in a reliquary getting covered in dust. You want to carry that bad boy into the fray like a standard of the Roman Legion. You could probably drop these in an outer ring shrine as to influence the expanding nature of your sect.

    Example 2: Based on Ik'taru, you're going to be ok letting this gather dust somewhere. This is like a holy symbol that you put in a glass case and show to all your nerd buddies with your acid free gloves and negative air pressure. You can drop this in the inner cloister of shrines or within the reliquary of the temple.

    I think you can really go through some of these powers and flag them as perimeter relics (high risk, high reward) and token/keepsakes that are site neutral or inner cloister.

    Now, for the bat poo crazy. I think you can come up with an opportunity to actually make this sort of fun/badass. You know how I sold you on the idea of making sect specific bashing areas? Yeah, I kind of want to keep pushing that. Does anyone remember the Ruins of the Hidden temple on Nickelodeon? What if you could invest sect essence and design a maze, a mini-quest, or just a badass temple guardian that someone would have to get past to break into your reliquary? You could even devote a few relics to gaining access and doing battle with the temple guardians. It would allow the entities and the players to interact and create some really badass temple guardians and then tell stories of the day that Kanthari and Glitter Jackal TQ421 kicked the shenanigans out of Bandwagon. Then tack on the rp of summoning/creating/training your temple guardian or building traps...could be badass. Man, you could even have to assemble a relic that would unlock a tier of temple guardians. The possibilities are endless..

    -Think Horus. Think the Zanik's things, only cooler.
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    KanthariAleutia
  • AhkanAhkan TexasMember Posts: 2,375 ✭✭✭✭✭
    @jeremy

    Also, I think you need to take into consideration that you should not be able to 'steal' most relics. There's an active part of the population who will play this game and -never- form their own relics and just steal other relics. There needs to be a CD or a process that people have to work through. You don't want it to be 14hrs investment to build relic and 1hr investment to steal relic,
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    SarriusKanthari
  • SarriusSarrius Member Posts: 1,319 ✭✭✭✭
    Ahkan said:
    @jeremy

    Also, I think you need to take into consideration that you should not be able to 'steal' most relics. There's an active part of the population who will play this game and -never- form their own relics and just steal other relics. There needs to be a CD or a process that people have to work through. You don't want it to be 14hrs investment to build relic and 1hr investment to steal relic,
    What is wrong with this? If somebody hates fetch quests, RNG scavenger hunts, and etc, why should they be penalized or forced to play the fetch quests and RNG scavenger hunts? Just let the system be instead of trying to protect it from 'grief'. Some people like to have fun different ways. If you spend 14hrs on building a relic, chances are you aren't going to leave it lying around unless you are a careless idiot - in which case, good job, your carelessness cost you something. Oh well.
    Ahkan
  • SelthisSelthis Member Posts: 524 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I don't think he's saying "protect it from grief permanently." I think it is moreso, don't make it so someone can undo your work in 5 minutes  at the drop of a hat with no  real investment other than  than 'hey, no one is on, I'll run into the temple and beat on the reliquary" being involved. 

    I'm all for them being attackable, but I'm not for having all my work be undone in a single day either.
    AleutiaKanthariAhkan
  • Jeremy SaundersJeremy Saunders Administrator Posts: 1,135 admin
    Ahkan said:
    Now, for the bat poo crazy. I think you can come up with an opportunity to actually make this sort of fun/badass. You know how I sold you on the idea of making sect specific bashing areas? Yeah, I kind of want to keep pushing that. Does anyone remember the Ruins of the Hidden temple on Nickelodeon? What if you could invest sect essence and design a maze, a mini-quest, or just a badass temple guardian that someone would have to get past to break into your reliquary? You could even devote a few relics to gaining access and doing battle with the temple guardians. It would allow the entities and the players to interact and create some really badass temple guardians and then tell stories of the day that Kanthari and Glitter Jackal TQ421 kicked the shenanigans out of Bandwagon. Then tack on the rp of summoning/creating/training your temple guardian or building traps...could be badass. Man, you could even have to assemble a relic that would unlock a tier of temple guardians. The possibilities are endless..

    -Think Horus. Think the Zanik's things, only cooler.
    I am not against working toward things like this, but that is literally months of work you just spewed out in one paragraph. I would like to get the basic relic system going, and then we can go from there. Don't forget that this update will include temple expansions and sanctuary building.

  • KhizanKhizan Member Posts: 2,648 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Store the relics in a vault or some similar thing that takes time to bypass.

    This way, when we invade your temple to steal relics, we need to hold you off while we crack the vault, which gives you time to throw us out. Just put some sort of cooldown on the vaultbreaking ability.

    "On the battlefield I am a god. I love war. The steel, the smell, the corpses. I wish there were more. On the first day I drove the Northmen back alone at the ford. Alone! On the second I carried the bridge! Me! Yesterday I climbed the Heroes! I love war! I… I wish it wasn’t over."

  • Jeremy SaundersJeremy Saunders Administrator Posts: 1,135 admin
    So, do we really need a vault or reliquary type place?

    The reason we initially came up with this was to deal with fragments for class one relics (there can only be one of these). It was so we could only have 5 fragment of a relic exist at one time. If people keep them in their inventory, they decay. If they were in a vault, they can be stolen. Let's face it, people are not going to like their vault be accessible and items stolen. Your sect/cult just cannot be on all the time, so it is not a realistic mechanic.

    What if we just let people hold on to them. We allow multiple fragments of class one relics. If that relic is already in existence, you just cannot assemble the fragments until you destroy the shrine holding the existing relic. We can still make a vault for your org to store fragments, but you can lock it up tight, so breaking in is possible, but really hard to do. This will also allow people to farm fragments and sell them as they want.

    Multiple fragments of class one relics are the only 'real' unrealistic mechanic, but I can sacrifice that for better game play

    Hopefully that makes sense.


    KanthariAleutiaWysriasSeraphyne
  • KhizanKhizan Member Posts: 2,648 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited June 2014

    As long as there is some kind of reasonable way to kill somebody and take their stuff, I'm really not that concerned with that aspect of it.  I just dislike the idea of people getting to hoard all that stuff back in a locked room with no penalties for doing so.

    The one thing to be careful of with the multiple fragments is making it so that I can't have 25 shards of Czevak's skull and just keep remaking the damn thing as other people break it.

    "On the battlefield I am a god. I love war. The steel, the smell, the corpses. I wish there were more. On the first day I drove the Northmen back alone at the ford. Alone! On the second I carried the bridge! Me! Yesterday I climbed the Heroes! I love war! I… I wish it wasn’t over."

  • IniarIniar AustraliaMember Posts: 3,213 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Jeremy said:
    What if we just let people hold on to them. 

    As long as their Raksha band is disabled, sure, why not :>
    wit beyond measure is a Sidhe's greatest treasure
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