What is this "Purge Blood"? How often can you do it and what exactly does it cure, and is it an instant cure? Does it also show a 3rd person message when a person does it? It sounds like a pain and something that shouldn't really be available to everyone ... (Maybe for certain classes)
It's available for half the lessons of a normal transcendent skill in the Antidotes miniskill. It cures many physical afflictions, mostly delivered by toxins, and has, if I recall right, a 10 second cooldown. It shows a 3rd person message. It is one of those skills that helps keep affliction classes in check.
EDIT: Sorry, 15 seconds. Whoops!
<div>Message #2062 Sent By: (imperian) Received On: 1/20/2018/2:59</div><div>"Antioch has filed a bounty against you. Reason: Raiding Antioch and stealing Bina, being a right</div><div>ass, and not belonging anywhere near Antioch till he grows up."</div>
Going by your questions, I'm going to assume you're probably from another ire game (mostly because my reaction to purge when I first saw it was identical to yours). In practice, its nowhere near as big a deal as you might think.
Working under that assumption, I think it probably best to clear up another common misconception about people who have seen the similar classes in other games: malig here really isn't primarily a locking class due to the paralysis cooldown, it really does lean pretty heavily on cath (which post classleads, its very solid at).
Personally I find malig the hardest class to fight against that demonic has access to (wytch is probably worse, but noone who actively one v ones really plays it so).
You'll be great in teams, but you will fold to damage if you get focused (so pretty much if you go anything demonic except Dk for the most part). Its a good class, just does have a pretty steap scripting investment unless you're pro and can manually track everything in your head.
I've a lot of experience from other IRE games, at a high level, Imperian is one of the only ones I haven't played a lot.
Don't you already have Focus, Tree tattoo, and Curseward available? Is purge blood really necessary? I guess you can hemotoxin/slickness/hemotoxin/slickness your daegger for Hunt, but is there really a need for 1 affliction per 10 or 15 seconds passive curing on top of the other class curing and general curing methods out there? Whatever, just an observation.
(Also, is Hunt stopped by touching shield?)
Isn't it fairly easy to keep track of the important afflictions they have? I mean, if they focus, they cured impatience. If they touch a tree tattoo or attack you (physically), they cured paralysis, if they apply successfully, they cured slickness, if they eat then they cured anorexia, etctera. There are probably ways of seeing visible signs of whether or not a person has an affliction too.
With the creation of the Idras, and their unique (at the time) toxins, purge blood was quite necessary (though not sure it was available from the opening of Imperian itself). Old Curseward was a joke vs a malignist/wytch, what with the eq time, long time to actually come up, and ease to breach.
Hmm, what do you mean with passive? Purge blood is active. Confused on whatever you meant there.
Yes, the locking toxins are easy to track off. The problem is to track the OTHER afflictions you are laying in top to make sure they don't cure the important ones first. By the way, you can apply salves even if you have slickness, they just don't work, the message is 'The salve cannot absorb into your slimy skin.', so even if you see them apply, it doesn't means they cured slickness. The common solution are a) if they suddenly start applying salves, it is quite likely they did cure it, or b) check if after the salve applying messages, you are lucky to see a curing message like, say, fire going out.
Hunt is stopped by shield AND rebounding (or it used to, not sure nowadays if aura still blocks it)
Your experience with other IRE games will provide a good foundation, but we do not have a 'set cure order' in Imperian. All curing from all skills, all herbs, etc is random. Kelp won't always cure clumsiness before weariness or etc.
EDIT: Sans some very important ones, sorry. I don't know if maidenhair cures paralysis > metrazol constantly, but I highly doubt maidenhair cures sensitive before paralysis ever. EDIT2: Yes, rudimentary tracking like what you detailed is useful here, but after those afflictions, a lot of things go out the door when it comes to stacks, etc. Purge Blood was necessary at the time, we balanced for it ever since, and it helps keep otherwise utterly potent toxic offenses from running over people. It doesn't do it on its own, obviously, but it is another cure per/15, which is useful in terms of combating momentum.
<div>Message #2062 Sent By: (imperian) Received On: 1/20/2018/2:59</div><div>"Antioch has filed a bounty against you. Reason: Raiding Antioch and stealing Bina, being a right</div><div>ass, and not belonging anywhere near Antioch till he grows up."</div>
Most of my experience comes from Achaea, where there isn't a set cure order type either. One of my main issues, probably, is that I'm yet to learn which afflictions are cured by the same herbs, such as Achaea being:
The main thing is that you have three avenues where all are important: One will prevent you from attacking or touching tree at all, one will allow them to stick asthma, and one will allow them to stack up mental afflictions such as dizziness and stupidity. Either way, you're going to be filled up in one of the three routes, because you can only try to cure two every 3rd deadeyes or so.
But whatever, I have no experience in Imperian at all, so in actuality it may turn out that purge blood is necessary, just tough to see how that's the case when smart curing can shut down a momentum based offence, but that smart curing requires you to play slightly more defensively. With something like purge blood which allows for an extra affliction to be cured every 15 seconds, curseward which allows you to catch up to two herbs (and thus potentially focus or smoking if you catch asthma or impatience) whenever you feel like it, and also just simply leaving the room.
If someone could list a chart like the one I wrote down above, that'd be cool too.
Randomized curing is why it's so hard to track afflictions that have no 3rd person cure, especially when your offense is structured around needing to know exactly what the opponent has. Sadly, most mental afflictions don't have third person cures and don't have secondary ways to determine the person is afflicted with x
3rd person cure: Ahkan is no longer red and burning in the sun.
Secondary: Ahkan stands. He doesn't have broken legs, paralysis paralyzed legs. Ahkan hits you. Ahkan isn't paralyzed, webbed, transfixed or peaced. Ahkan focusses. Ahkan doesn't have impatience.
Imperian's 'balancing' is sort of circular. Our affliction rates are so much faster than other games, we need purge blood.We justified this with purge blood. The argument could be made if we toned everything down, we wouldn't need purge blood.
Daegger hunt looks awesome on paper. The problems are (I'm not sure about artifacts because I haven't messed with it) rebounding and affliction timing (or lack thereof). Sure, the fiend strips aura of rebounding 100% of the time on every attack (this is dumb). This is at least balanced by the fact that the fiend can't leave the pentagram (this is also dumb). If you see a fiend, calm it, kill it or leave the room. The way hunt works is it's deadeyes combo, hunt...delay....hit with knife. This delay is both awesome and detrimental. You're shoe horned into throwing up an affliction hail mary praying to the gods of fate, timing and rng that your hunt lands when they don't have aura up and if they do, that the gods smile on you again that your raze pet auto razes before it fails. Honestly though, malignist didn't -need- 3 afflictions every 2.4s, that's nut, but this is a pretty derpy way to balance that.
Most of my experience comes from Achaea, where there isn't a set cure order type either. One of my main issues, probably, is that I'm yet to learn which afflictions are cured by the same herbs, such as Achaea being:
The main thing is that you have three avenues where all are important: One will prevent you from attacking or touching tree at all, one will allow them to stick asthma, and one will allow them to stack up mental afflictions such as dizziness and stupidity. Either way, you're going to be filled up in one of the three routes, because you can only try to cure two every 3rd deadeyes or so.
But whatever, I have no experience in Imperian at all, so in actuality it may turn out that purge blood is necessary, just tough to see how that's the case when smart curing can shut down a momentum based offence.
If someone could list a chart like the one I wrote down above, that'd be cool too.
Besides some very specific changes, you'll find most of that in tact with the names changed (i.e kelp =ginseng I think, maidenhair = blooroot, orphine = goldenseal, etc). I think HELP HEALINGLIST still does the job well, and there's also the AFFLICTION SHOW commands.
Also, I forget if this is the same in Achaea (so long ago ), but you can cure slickness by smoking here, too (smoke lovage) - this is in addition to maidenhair (bloodroot).
<div>Message #2062 Sent By: (imperian) Received On: 1/20/2018/2:59</div><div>"Antioch has filed a bounty against you. Reason: Raiding Antioch and stealing Bina, being a right</div><div>ass, and not belonging anywhere near Antioch till he grows up."</div>
Yah, I getcha. I don't know exactly how rapid affliction rates are in Imperian, so I'm drawing mostly on my experience elsewhere. I didn't know, for example, that rebounding actually STOPPED Hunt, and I didn't know that Fiend strips it. Though, Hunt seems completely unreliable considering you can just leave the room or TOUCH SHIELD and hey, no need to worry about that any more.
Should definitely replace Fiend stripping rebounding with passive hemotoxin, or at least a balanceless ORDER FIEND HEMOTOXIN <target> every 5 seconds(?) - as I said, I'm not sure of affliction to curing ratio here, but come onnnnnn, why make something like purge blood make affliction combat(the best combat in the game) so boring and balanced in the favour of limb damage combat? That doesn't sound like a balanced system.
Off the top of my head, a few of the important ones: Maidenhair: paralysis, metrazol, sensitivity, slickness Kelp: asthma, hemotoxin, clumsy, weariness, butisol Mandrake: Impatience, reckless, dizziness Epilepsy: smoke laurel (yeah, that ones different) Orphine: stupidity
All the ones that you probably think can be focused still can.
Maidenhair order is completely random, if you get unlucky you can get slickness/sensitivity/metrazol/paralysis eating a full stack (wait until you meet a wardancer).
What is Metrazol, exactly? (I'm sorry, I don't have access to the game right now.) I'm assuming Diabolist cannot afflict that via Evileye. A 25-33% chance stack on paralysis seems gross
Its a much weaker paralysis, it locks down one arm and one leg. Kind of substitutes in for being able to stack stuff under paralysis, except you can still generally hit back while you have it (its just enough of a hinder you need to generally cure it top if you don't want an annoying time of things).
Maidenhair order is completely random, if you get unlucky you can get slickness/sensitivity/metrazol/paralysis eating a full stack (wait until you meet a wardancer).
Tee hee.
Also, You will find that proper tracking makes affliction offenses here very good. You are overstating the strength of purge blood. It is good, but it doesn't make limb combat superior by virtue of there being no 'purge limbs'.
<div>Message #2062 Sent By: (imperian) Received On: 1/20/2018/2:59</div><div>"Antioch has filed a bounty against you. Reason: Raiding Antioch and stealing Bina, being a right</div><div>ass, and not belonging anywhere near Antioch till he grows up."</div>
Also, double post - if you like strong affliction offense, try Wytch (Shaman without Vodun) or our Snakes (no illusions. Lost Poisons in favor of a planar wormhole magic).
<div>Message #2062 Sent By: (imperian) Received On: 1/20/2018/2:59</div><div>"Antioch has filed a bounty against you. Reason: Raiding Antioch and stealing Bina, being a right</div><div>ass, and not belonging anywhere near Antioch till he grows up."</div>
I'd love to start and dive right in if it didn't cost $70 to get started on class skills, maybe at the end of summer break. Thanks for all the info though, and I will probably continue to ask questions anyway.
Sarrius: I did look at Serpents, and was told that their doublestab is roughly 2.7/2.8 seconds, and they can't use illusions off balance, of which have a 2.8 second eq time anyway, and with rebounding coming up every 6 seconds that makes it horrible to fight as one, or so I thought at a first glance.
I'd love to start and dive right in if it didn't cost $70 to get started on class skills, maybe at the end of summer break. Thanks for all the info though, and I will probably continue to ask questions anyway.
Sarrius: I did look at Serpents, and was told that their doublestab is roughly 2.7/2.8 seconds, and they can't use illusions off balance, of which have a 2.8 second eq time anyway, and with rebounding coming up every 6 seconds that makes it horrible to fight as one, or so I thought at a first glance.
They're about due for a lesson sale anyway, so keep an eye out for that for sure.
Also, Imperian's Elite is a far better value than any of the other games (Especially since you're looking at minimum 169 credits in value assuming you trade in the tokens and get the worst possible thing out of the phylactery this isn't even counting the roughly 20 credits worth of login lessons assume you login every day).
So maybe do a couple of months of that (and if they do do a lesson sale, you get 10% bonus lessons just like you would credits on purchase as well) and there's a good chance you could make out pretty well for a bit less than 70 bucks.
Assassin is honestly off the chain for a multitude of reasons. Aura isn't really as much of a problem as you would think, especially considering Assassin is one of the few classes that has no failure for doing something like flay ahkan aura/dstab ahkan/pet goat. 1v1 it's one of the strongest skill sets in the game. In teams, it's been poorly utilized. Once you get the coding out of the way, you can cookie cutter your way to being awesome in almost every arena event you bump into. It's not exactly rocket surgery, most of the work is actually coding a tracker and an offense to stream line mass producing delicious pk wins.
If you want to get down and dirty with afflictions, Assassin > Wytchen/Diabolist. Wytchen is a box of gimmicks that if they don't work, you're up poo creek without a paddle. Aka, if someone is smart enough to diagnose (read: old school pkers) they will destroy all of your momentum. Diabolist runs into a lot of walls that are rather unpleasant. You can reliably run an affliction offense with DK, but that's depending on getting level 3+ artifact sabres and using a really good toxin tracker. The trade off is you're very much a class cannon, but the reward is you can pretty much instagib people if you can do multiples of 3 (our ring says this is hard, it isn't) or time a limb break with a butisol application. Vivisect is the saving grace for an otherwise outdated skillset.
If you want to branch out of demonic: Flickdancers are still stupid (but tank like wet paper), Hunters are downy strong, Outriders have damage and affliction strats and Idras are a nasty mix of lol-afflictions and time-bomb all wrapped into a package of unnecessarily tanky with crowd-control icing with a mild wtf-is-this-damage-type tea. (I'd go idra, tbh).
Yah, I getcha. I don't know exactly how rapid affliction rates are in Imperian
...
Should definitely replace Fiend stripping rebounding with passive hemotoxin, or at least a balanceless ORDER FIEND HEMOTOXIN <target> every 5 seconds(?) - as I said, I'm not sure of affliction to curing ratio here
"Hey guys I don't know about your affliction rates or your curing rates but you should totes give Diabolists passive hemotoxin."
Somehow, your logic fails to convince me.
"On the battlefield I am a god. I love war. The steel, the smell, the corpses. I wish there were more. On the first day I drove the Northmen back alone at the ford. Alone! On the second I carried the bridge! Me! Yesterday I climbed the Heroes! I love war! I… I wish it wasn’t over."
Take knight with scalemail, double their speed, halve their damage and then give them transfix, a bunch of ways to run away, passive afflicting and burst damage and you get a rough idea of wardancer.
Also this guy will fit right in, he already has the smacktalk down.
Sounds like a piece of cake, hey, I'll even let him switch class and buy his next couple of artefacts in preparation. You really think you got what it takes, bro?
I'm waiting (For your credits to trans me, thanks).
Ah, so it's a one-per-Diabolist restriction as opposed to a one-per-pentagram(room) restriction? That's too bad. Likewise that Nightmare doesn't give slickness
I already told you that Nightmare delivers slickness. Don't listen to them!
“We abjure labels. We fight for money and an indefinable pride. The politics, the ethics, the moralities, are irrelevant."
Difficulty aside, Diabolist is in my opinion a very fun class with great flavor. You can track their afflictions with work and the new rendition of addiction works wonders in conjunction with the wight form. That said, it is by no means a pick up and play sort of class and Diabolist is indeed like as not to be aimed for first in a group.
Don't be counting on a lesson sale, Sarapis posted over on Achaea's forums a little while back that they did quite poorly in the past when someone brought up the lack of one in a while.
Sounds like a piece of cake, hey, I'll even let him switch class and buy his next couple of artefacts in preparation. You really think you got what it takes, bro?
I'm waiting (For your credits to trans me, thanks).
Man.. I'm going to note this thread for posterity and either quote your victory or death when you finally settle in and meet Khizan and any Flickdancer. Call it an initiation rite.
Hint: Druids here do not have groves and make people with piles of tank artifacts wince and cry.
<div>Message #2062 Sent By: (imperian) Received On: 1/20/2018/2:59</div><div>"Antioch has filed a bounty against you. Reason: Raiding Antioch and stealing Bina, being a right</div><div>ass, and not belonging anywhere near Antioch till he grows up."</div>
Druids do have groves. They're just not combat relevant.
/nitpick
"On the battlefield I am a god. I love war. The steel, the smell, the corpses. I wish there were more. On the first day I drove the Northmen back alone at the ford. Alone! On the second I carried the bridge! Me! Yesterday I climbed the Heroes! I love war! I… I wish it wasn’t over."
Comments
EDIT: Sorry, 15 seconds. Whoops!
Going by your questions, I'm going to assume you're probably from another ire game (mostly because my reaction to purge when I first saw it was identical to yours). In practice, its nowhere near as big a deal as you might think.
Working under that assumption, I think it probably best to clear up another common misconception about people who have seen the similar classes in other games: malig here really isn't primarily a locking class due to the paralysis cooldown, it really does lean pretty heavily on cath (which post classleads, its very solid at).
Personally I find malig the hardest class to fight against that demonic has access to (wytch is probably worse, but noone who actively one v ones really plays it so).
You'll be great in teams, but you will fold to damage if you get focused (so pretty much if you go anything demonic except Dk for the most part). Its a good class, just does have a pretty steap scripting investment unless you're pro and can manually track everything in your head.
Hmm, what do you mean with passive? Purge blood is active. Confused on whatever you meant there.
Yes, the locking toxins are easy to track off. The problem is to track the OTHER afflictions you are laying in top to make sure they don't cure the important ones first. By the way, you can apply salves even if you have slickness, they just don't work, the message is 'The salve cannot absorb into your slimy skin.', so even if you see them apply, it doesn't means they cured slickness. The common solution are a) if they suddenly start applying salves, it is quite likely they did cure it, or b) check if after the salve applying messages, you are lucky to see a curing message like, say, fire going out.
Hunt is stopped by shield AND rebounding (or it used to, not sure nowadays if aura still blocks it)
Your experience with other IRE games will provide a good foundation, but we do not have a 'set cure order' in Imperian. All curing from all skills, all herbs, etc is random. Kelp won't always cure clumsiness before weariness or etc.
EDIT: Sans some very important ones, sorry. I don't know if maidenhair cures paralysis > metrazol constantly, but I highly doubt maidenhair cures sensitive before paralysis ever.
EDIT2: Yes, rudimentary tracking like what you detailed is useful here, but after those afflictions, a lot of things go out the door when it comes to stacks, etc. Purge Blood was necessary at the time, we balanced for it ever since, and it helps keep otherwise utterly potent toxic offenses from running over people. It doesn't do it on its own, obviously, but it is another cure per/15, which is useful in terms of combating momentum.
Secondary:
Ahkan stands. He doesn't have broken legs, paralysis paralyzed legs.
Ahkan hits you. Ahkan isn't paralyzed, webbed, transfixed or peaced.
Ahkan focusses. Ahkan doesn't have impatience.
Also, I forget if this is the same in Achaea (so long ago
Off the top of my head, a few of the important ones:
Maidenhair: paralysis, metrazol, sensitivity, slickness
Kelp: asthma, hemotoxin, clumsy, weariness, butisol
Mandrake: Impatience, reckless, dizziness
Epilepsy: smoke laurel (yeah, that ones different)
Orphine: stupidity
All the ones that you probably think can be focused still can.
Maidenhair order is completely random, if you get unlucky you can get slickness/sensitivity/metrazol/paralysis eating a full stack (wait until you meet a wardancer).
Its a much weaker paralysis, it locks down one arm and one leg. Kind of substitutes in for being able to stack stuff under paralysis, except you can still generally hit back while you have it (its just enough of a hinder you need to generally cure it top if you don't want an annoying time of things).
No, its toxin only.
Also, You will find that proper tracking makes affliction offenses here very good. You are overstating the strength of purge blood. It is good, but it doesn't make limb combat superior by virtue of there being no 'purge limbs'.
Mending: Ablaze, Actinium, Scars, Crippled limbs
Epidermal: Anorexia, Disfigurement, Slow Elixirs(luminal), Calotropis, Slow Herbs(mazanor), Stuttering, Withered Throat
Restoration: Mangled and Mutilated limbs (including head, torso and back)
Nightshade: Addiction, SunAllergy, Nausea, Sulfonal, Lethargy, Recurring Freezing, Haemophilia, Dry Blood
Kelp: Asthma, Clumsiness, Health Leech, Hemotoxin, Butisol, Weariness
Orphine: Agoraphobia, Berserking, Claustrophobia, Loneliness, Masochism, Stupidity, Vertigo
Maidenhair: Paralysis, Slickness, Sensitivity, Metrazol
Wormwood: Dementia, Hallucinations, Confusion, Paranoia, Hypersomnia
Galingale: Generosity, Gutwyrm, Justice, Lovers, Peace
Ginger: Gutwyrm, Poisoned Blood
Mandrake: Dissonance, Dizziness, Hypochondria, Impatience, Ignorance, Recklessness, Shyness, Deadening, Heroism, Poisoned Mind
Lovage: Disloyalty, Slow Balance(noctec), Mana Leech, Slickness
Laurel: Aeon, Hellsight, Madness, Epilepsy, Penance, SlowEquilibrium (mebaral)
This list is about to be outdated with the Summoner/Mage revamp though.
"On the battlefield I am a god. I love war. The steel, the smell, the corpses. I wish there were more. On the first day I drove the Northmen back alone at the ford. Alone! On the second I carried the bridge! Me! Yesterday I climbed the Heroes! I love war! I… I wish it wasn’t over."
P.s do wardancers get fiends?
Take knight with scalemail, double their speed, halve their damage and then give them transfix, a bunch of ways to run away, passive afflicting and burst damage and you get a rough idea of wardancer.
Also this guy will fit right in, he already has the smacktalk down.
I'm waiting (For your credits to trans me, thanks).
I already told you that Nightmare delivers slickness. Don't listen to them!
Hint: Druids here do not have groves and make people with piles of tank artifacts wince and cry.
Druids do have groves. They're just not combat relevant.
/nitpick
"On the battlefield I am a god. I love war. The steel, the smell, the corpses. I wish there were more. On the first day I drove the Northmen back alone at the ford. Alone! On the second I carried the bridge! Me! Yesterday I climbed the Heroes! I love war! I… I wish it wasn’t over."