Maybe to make these crazy 1v1 Champion duels more attractive, when a challenge is initiated, the Champions either get assigned a random, tri-trans profession from their circle for the duration of the challenge (so you have to adapt pretty quickly if you're given a profession you don't happen to be prepared to fight with), or a new skillset specifically for use in these duels that somehow evens things out. The second one makes a lot more sense.
Maybe to make these crazy 1v1 Champion duels more attractive, when a challenge is initiated, the Champions either get assigned a random, tri-trans profession from their circle for the duration of the challenge (so you have to adapt pretty quickly if you're given a profession you don't happen to be prepared to fight with), or a new skillset specifically for use in these duels that somehow evens things out. The second one makes a lot more sense.
I want this, just so I can see the Azefel coding carnage that would take place to ensure he was prepared for any profession.
Ellen said: That said, I do not appreciate bringing up my profession or inexperience at combat into this. It is the most irrelevant detail to the point of the discussion.
It's not irrelevant, though. In fact, it's totally relevant.
We're not saying this to be mean. We're not saying this to pick on you. We're not saying you're a bad fighter.
What we are saying is this:
You don't have enough combat experience to design a good combat system.
You haven't put in the time in the trenches. You don't have a proper appreciation of the real world combat environment, and it is leading you to design an inherently flawed system. You don't have the experience to recognize them, but they are there.
"On the battlefield I am a god. I love war. The steel, the smell, the corpses. I wish there were more. On the first day I drove the Northmen back alone at the ford. Alone! On the second I carried the bridge! Me! Yesterday I climbed the Heroes! I love war! I… I wish it wasn’t over."
People exist in this game who can walk into a room and kill you before you know what just happened. Often times, regardless of how many people are in your team to protect you, you still die.
People exist in this game who can walk into a room and kill you before you know what just happened. Often times, regardless of how many people are in your team to protect you, you still die.
Maybe to make these crazy 1v1 Champion duels more attractive, when a challenge is initiated, the Champions either get assigned a random, tri-trans profession from their circle for the duration of the challenge (so you have to adapt pretty quickly if you're given a profession you don't happen to be prepared to fight with), or a new skillset specifically for use in these duels that somehow evens things out. The second one makes a lot more sense.
Considering offenses usually take a lot of coding, client-side systems need to be tailored to professions, and not all professions are balanced for 1v1, the first one just isn't that great of an idea.
The second one already exists as Balance of Power and Psycombat and how often do you see people using those?
"On the battlefield I am a god. I love war. The steel, the smell, the corpses. I wish there were more. On the first day I drove the Northmen back alone at the ford. Alone! On the second I carried the bridge! Me! Yesterday I climbed the Heroes! I love war! I… I wish it wasn’t over."
Personally, I'm all for gaining the ability to kaibanish someone as an Outrider while retaining the ability to attack them. This idea for champion is a good one.
Powerful 1v1 profession is OK with 1v1 duels. News at 11pm
The bitterness is overwhelming.
<div>Message #2062 Sent By: (imperian) Received On: 1/20/2018/2:59</div><div>"Antioch has filed a bounty against you. Reason: Raiding Antioch and stealing Bina, being a right</div><div>ass, and not belonging anywhere near Antioch till he grows up."</div>
"On the battlefield I am a god. I love war. The steel, the smell, the corpses. I wish there were more. On the first day I drove the Northmen back alone at the ford. Alone! On the second I carried the bridge! Me! Yesterday I climbed the Heroes! I love war! I… I wish it wasn’t over."
<div>Message #2062 Sent By: (imperian) Received On: 1/20/2018/2:59</div><div>"Antioch has filed a bounty against you. Reason: Raiding Antioch and stealing Bina, being a right</div><div>ass, and not belonging anywhere near Antioch till he grows up."</div>
Having finally read the OP suggestion I can safely say that it is one of the worst ideas I have read in a while. And I just commented on 100 classleads.
Having finally read the OP suggestion I can safely say that it is one of the worst ideas I have read in a while. And I just commented on 100 classleads.
Having finally read the OP suggestion I can safely say that it is one of the worst ideas I have read in a while. And I just commented on 100 classleads.
Thanks for the input.
I'm really surprised by the civility in this. Well done @Ellen. Truly.
Civility deserves a better answer. While this idea attemps to cover all bases, and not doing bad at it, the concept itself is flawed.
- 1v1 balance in this game is skewed toward recently revamped classes, on top of artifact creep.
- No one likes to be forced to an impossible to win, impossible to leave fight.
- In the case when you aren't in the above situation, it could mean that someone in the other side sacrificed a pawn to neutralize a bishop of yours.
- If a person of a team thought they could be challenged to a duel and FORSAKEd for the upcoming fight, why should he get Champion in the first place then? Shardfalls happen every 3-4 hours. Monolith fights could happen at any moment.
- The part of the grace period afterward is annoying, at least if it is done in team situations. So, you took out one of my companions out and I can't do anything about it nor take advantage of any weakness you might have at the moment?
Go read all the bullets in Selthis and Labil's tl;dr's you get a good idea of why it's not a good idea.
There are a lot of reasons pointed at that could even be overcome with time. Make it clear that the system isn't meant for during shardfalls or in mono battles, and make it an issuable offense. Half those problems are solved. Disable the system for a period of time before and after shardfalls, or in shardfall/mono capping areas while those conflicts are going on. More problems prevented in the first place. I think the little details aren't the biggest issue. The entire point of your proposed system is to make it higher risk so people didn't just bash in champ and then hide in cities. I understand that having people bounce every time you show up is annoying. SwiftTrack/Raid Home is infuriating, but fleeing is at least partly addressed in various skillsets and is complimented by shard walls and some sect rituals. Taking away the ability of someone to run when they know they've lost and there are skills to prevent that. In the end, your system leaves no room for anybody but Tier 1. Imagine you're PK Rank 150 and you go out and bash up 400 demons, get your champ, bash for an hour, then PK Rank 10 shows up and you're caged for that person to kill slowly. You go back out and bash another 400 demons for a new champ and all you can do is hope that you run into someone closer to PK 100 or you're just out of luck.
Week 1: 30 people participate. 8 are Tier 1.
Week 2: 10 people participate. 6 are Tier 1.
Week 3: 5 very, very bored Tier 1's are the only champions left.
I like the idea of area-enclosed duels without the pleasantries of the arena. Real deaths and pk rankings at stake, resources are actually consumed. I think that sounds great. Ask for a change to sparwho or a new, simple, area-locked duel system. Just don't do it in a way that ruins Champion for everyone sans the top 1% of combatants.
On a sidenote: I don't really think Champion was designed to provide a bashing bonus, or else they'd have just rolled the bashing bonus in to normal experience gains. It was meant to be a risk/reward system. What prevents some top 1% combatant from rolling up and stomping your ass in now, thus 'ruining' the 'system' for you?
<div>Message #2062 Sent By: (imperian) Received On: 1/20/2018/2:59</div><div>"Antioch has filed a bounty against you. Reason: Raiding Antioch and stealing Bina, being a right</div><div>ass, and not belonging anywhere near Antioch till he grows up."</div>
I can potentially (and have) gotten away from a gank that isn't limited to a 3x3 room before. I'm sure you have too. I mean hell, even Abigail said she got away from a Juran/someone else shardfall gank when she was a mage
And I as Kliko reminded me, I'm always at risk when I'm out in the world. I just don't really lose champ unless an apprentice kills me.
So it sounds like the system is working as intended without it having a lot of potential issues!
On a sidenote: I don't really think Champion was designed to provide a bashing bonus, or else they'd have just rolled the bashing bonus in to normal experience gains. It was meant to be a risk/reward system. What prevents some top 1% combatant from rolling up and stomping your ass in now, thus 'ruining' the 'system' for you?
Situational Awareness. Caution. Running. Friends with travel skills. All sorts of things
"On the battlefield I am a god. I love war. The steel, the smell, the corpses. I wish there were more. On the first day I drove the Northmen back alone at the ford. Alone! On the second I carried the bridge! Me! Yesterday I climbed the Heroes! I love war! I… I wish it wasn’t over."
It is presently a risk/reward system. I risk letting anyone and everyone try to pk me at any moment while I'm bashing. My reward is 2x and no experience loss on death. I'm very happy with that. As is, I get away from a majority of attempted ganks. That's part of what my skillset is meant for. Part of your skillset, and part of the abilities that shards and sects grant are meant to keep that from happening. More than once, I've been altar summoned into a room that isn't flooded, with exits not walled, and without them using piety/blocking. That's someone failing to use all the abilities at their disposal to ensure a kill. These abilities have been carefully balanced to make escape a possibility in combat, but unlikely if the aggressor preps the room correctly. Changing the champion system in the way proposed throws all that balance and all those skills to the wind in favor of making it easier for the aggressor. That's simply unnecessary.
Comments
I want this, just so I can see the Azefel coding carnage that would take place to ensure he was prepared for any profession.
It's not irrelevant, though. In fact, it's totally relevant.
We're not saying this to be mean. We're not saying this to pick on you. We're not saying you're a bad fighter.
What we are saying is this: You don't have enough combat experience to design a good combat system. You haven't put in the time in the trenches. You don't have a proper appreciation of the real world combat environment, and it is leading you to design an inherently flawed system. You don't have the experience to recognize them, but they are there.
"On the battlefield I am a god. I love war. The steel, the smell, the corpses. I wish there were more. On the first day I drove the Northmen back alone at the ford. Alone! On the second I carried the bridge! Me! Yesterday I climbed the Heroes! I love war! I… I wish it wasn’t over."
People exist in this game who can walk into a room and kill you before you know what just happened. Often times, regardless of how many people are in your team to protect you, you still die.
And most of them play Druid
"On the battlefield I am a god. I love war. The steel, the smell, the corpses. I wish there were more. On the first day I drove the Northmen back alone at the ford. Alone! On the second I carried the bridge! Me! Yesterday I climbed the Heroes! I love war! I… I wish it wasn’t over."
"On the battlefield I am a god. I love war. The steel, the smell, the corpses. I wish there were more. On the first day I drove the Northmen back alone at the ford. Alone! On the second I carried the bridge! Me! Yesterday I climbed the Heroes! I love war! I… I wish it wasn’t over."
I'm really surprised by the civility in this. Well done @Ellen. Truly.
There are a lot of reasons pointed at that could even be overcome with time. Make it clear that the system isn't meant for during shardfalls or in mono battles, and make it an issuable offense. Half those problems are solved. Disable the system for a period of time before and after shardfalls, or in shardfall/mono capping areas while those conflicts are going on. More problems prevented in the first place. I think the little details aren't the biggest issue. The entire point of your proposed system is to make it higher risk so people didn't just bash in champ and then hide in cities. I understand that having people bounce every time you show up is annoying. SwiftTrack/Raid Home is infuriating, but fleeing is at least partly addressed in various skillsets and is complimented by shard walls and some sect rituals. Taking away the ability of someone to run when they know they've lost and there are skills to prevent that. In the end, your system leaves no room for anybody but Tier 1. Imagine you're PK Rank 150 and you go out and bash up 400 demons, get your champ, bash for an hour, then PK Rank 10 shows up and you're caged for that person to kill slowly. You go back out and bash another 400 demons for a new champ and all you can do is hope that you run into someone closer to PK 100 or you're just out of luck.
Week 1: 30 people participate. 8 are Tier 1.
I like the idea of area-enclosed duels without the pleasantries of the arena. Real deaths and pk rankings at stake, resources are actually consumed. I think that sounds great. Ask for a change to sparwho or a new, simple, area-locked duel system. Just don't do it in a way that ruins Champion for everyone sans the top 1% of combatants.
And I as Kliko reminded me, I'm always at risk when I'm out in the world. I just don't really lose champ unless an apprentice kills me.
So it sounds like the system is working as intended without it having a lot of potential issues!
"On the battlefield I am a god. I love war. The steel, the smell, the corpses. I wish there were more. On the first day I drove the Northmen back alone at the ford. Alone! On the second I carried the bridge! Me! Yesterday I climbed the Heroes! I love war! I… I wish it wasn’t over."