It's par for the course and also happens to be ridiculous. Half of demonic's (and magick's) professions charge this ability, including plenty that do no damage of their own (curses, evileye). What's balanced about a 50% unblockable attack that is accumulated by virtue of simply surviving (and accumulates behind prismatic for that matter)?
@Wysrias: They have to be targeted at Karyn as Ultrix stated, so if she's sitting behind prismatic, she's not accumulating. I can test this on my Pred alt when I get home. Also, while I have a disdain for whataboutism, it's "par for the course" because there are a lot of classes doing effortless damage right now in groups with far less conditional requirements than tidalslash. This doesn't excuse Tidalslash, but I'd maintain that it's probably not the biggest offender.
@Wysrias: They have to be targeted at Karyn as Ultrix stated, so if she's sitting behind prismatic, she's not accumulating. I can test this on my Pred alt when I get home. Also, while I have a disdain for whataboutism, it's "par for the course" because there are a lot of classes doing effortless damage right now in groups with far less conditional requirements than tidalslash. This doesn't excuse Tidalslash, but I'd maintain that it's probably not the biggest offender.
Curses and evileye go through prismatic. She was definitely charging behind it.
You can charge it using flare, cleansing, any of the int-scaling kanai attacks, any of the new int-scaling weapon enhancements (even a deathknight or runeguard might be charging tidalslash, now), basically anything else that scales with intelligence. A deathknight or templar could easily charge tidalslash four times in one attack.
I'm fairly sure tidalslash only charges when you receive damage of a magickal nature. Curses (without Mark) and Evileye by itself doesn't charge it unless they're doing damage. If Demonic continued to focus Karyn while she's behind prismatic, that sounds like a tactical error rather than the ability being too powerful. Granted, I wouldn't have any problem with tidalslash charging being reduced/removed while behind prismatic, but I think that's a fairly small counter to actually being able to attack through prismatic (which is pretty nice to begin with).
Edit: As Ozreas stated then, it can be pre-charged by AM, but given all the fights I've been at with Karyn, she doesn't do it.
@Wysrias: They have to be targeted at Karyn as Ultrix stated, so if she's sitting behind prismatic, she's not accumulating. I can test this on my Pred alt when I get home. Also, while I have a disdain for whataboutism, it's "par for the course" because there are a lot of classes doing effortless damage right now in groups with far less conditional requirements than tidalslash. This doesn't excuse Tidalslash, but I'd maintain that it's probably not the biggest offender.
Curses and evileye go through prismatic. She was definitely charging behind it.
Putting aside the various other comments about what other skills can possibly charge tidalslash, I am not sure I see what the issue is with charging off a skill that goes through prismatic. If it goes through prismatic, the predator is taking the consequence/effect of the attack. Why shouldn't charge accumulate?
I'm not arguing charge shouldn't accumulating, just clarifying that it does. I think the entire mechanic is bizzare in the current game, as it provides a pretty circle/profession specific counter that charges fast enough to be used multiple times in one fight.
Eh, let's not split straws. Tidalslash is pretty op. Just because Karyn is too nice to not precharge it doesn't make it ok (I would precharge that every fight shamelessly). They could've hit someone else for sure, but that's not really a fair option. What if we all rolled predator? Etc.
... What's balanced about a 50% unblockable attack that is accumulated by virtue of simply surviving ...?
Something, something, AURASHIFT.
I will assume that's at least partially sarcasm since tidalslash doesn't require you to be sub-10% maxhealth when you use it to deal comparable damage, and aurashift doesn't do unblockable damage!
... What's balanced about a 50% unblockable attack that is accumulated by virtue of simply surviving ...?
Something, something, AURASHIFT.
I will assume that's at least partially sarcasm since tidalslash doesn't require you to be sub-10% maxhealth when you use it to deal comparable damage, and aurashift doesn't do unblockable damage!
Sarcasm, yes....but more, any skill that charges/gains momentum by a mechanic that is not actively initiated by the person is generally awful.
Eh, let's not split straws. Tidalslash is pretty op. Just because Karyn is too nice to not precharge it doesn't make it ok (I would precharge that every fight shamelessly). They could've hit someone else for sure, but that's not really a fair option. What if we all rolled predator? Etc.
A reasonable solution is diminished returns on Tidalslash charge based on how many folks are actively targeting the Pred if Tidalslash is deemed an issue.
@Cassius: Kai is based off of that and kai seems relatively fine to me.
Granted, if Tidalslash IS an issue, we probably should take a look at a lot of the high damage sources in the game. Cassius really isn't kidding where getting hit by a reaving knight right now will absolutely melt most people right now.
@Iniar: Demonic doesn't have a lack of options. I've played on a side elsewhere that had to face raw damage classes with our assortment of affliction-based offenses and we fared well more often than not. I will state that affliction-based classes in team fights require a lot of coordination in order to make the most out of them, so they're a bit harder than limb-based offenses. However, to insinuate that demonic has a lack of options in groups (especially with some of the stuff they have) does their kits a large disservice.
@Cassius: Kai is based off of that and kai seems relatively fine to me.
Non-game breaking doesn't mean that it's a great mechanic. Kai you can also precharge (can/has/will be done) and also breeds skills like deliverance.
Druid used to be this way too, where you could charge up/maintain the momentum before the fight started. It was rightfully changed some time ago to prevent precharging and also saw more changes this classlead round so that the momentum mechanic didn't feed itself in a way that was 100% maintainable.
@Cassius: Kai is based off of that and kai seems relatively fine to me.
Non-game breaking doesn't mean that it's a great mechanic. Kai you can also precharge (can/has/will be done) and also breeds skills like deliverance.
Druid used to be this way too, where you could charge up/maintain the momentum before the fight started. It was rightfully changed some time ago to prevent precharging and also saw more changes this classlead round so that the momentum mechanic didn't feed itself in a way that was 100% maintainable.
The deliverance change whereby any action during deliverance setup cancels deliverance is awesome and a good fix for this pre-charging mechanic. Used to be I could charge up, start deliverance, yell an insult, jumpkick into a room full of 10 defenders/raiders and time it so that deliverance went up a split-second later. I think it's a Good Thing that this is no longer possible.
@Cassius: Kai is based off of that and kai seems relatively fine to me.
Non-game breaking doesn't mean that it's a great mechanic. Kai you can also precharge (can/has/will be done) and also breeds skills like deliverance.
Druid used to be this way too, where you could charge up/maintain the momentum before the fight started. It was rightfully changed some time ago to prevent precharging and also saw more changes this classlead round so that the momentum mechanic didn't feed itself in a way that was 100% maintainable.
The deliverance change whereby any action during deliverance setup cancels deliverance is awesome and a good fix for this pre-charging mechanic. Used to be I could charge up, start deliverance, yell an insult, jumpkick into a room full of 10 defenders/raiders and time it so that deliverance went up a split-second later. I think it's a Good Thing that this is no longer possible.
That in no way prevents pre-charging. It only makes it a little less trolly.
If legitimately hit Deliverance more than maybe once a year you should stop being so awful at this game.
"On the battlefield I am a god. I love war. The steel, the smell, the corpses. I wish there were more. On the first day I drove the Northmen back alone at the ford. Alone! On the second I carried the bridge! Me! Yesterday I climbed the Heroes! I love war! I… I wish it wasn’t over."
Being able to frontload damage where the class isn't designed for it doesn't seem worthless. Or you know, kaibanish a heavy hitter out of a teamfight from the start.
None of the skills themselves are really a problem, it's the fact that if it can be precharged, someone will. You appear to have already admitted to such shenanigans already.
Sure, the ability to stack enfeeble with an opening attack shouldn't be discounted, but in its current state it's way better than old school enfeeble/absolve. Banish is super great as well, as you mentioned. Monk is such a swiss army knife class, I really love it. What were we talking about again?
05:06:38.440 You aren't wielding that. 05:06:38.442 You are now holding a soulspear in your left hand. 05:06:38.445 Your grip is already relaxed. 05:06:38.447 You don't see your target in that direction. 05:06:38.449 You cock back your arm and hurl a glowing spear with all your might at Khizan, to the southeast. 05:06:38.451 Balance Taken: 5.60s 05:06:38.457 512[131] 589[124] e- db 0 100 9.37 0 05:06:38.995 As prophesied by Wysrias, Khizan has met his doom. 05:06:38.997 512[131] 589[124] e- db 0 100 9.37 0 05:06:39.003 (Ring): Iluv says, "Target: Khizan." 05:06:39.010 512[131] 589[124] e- db 0 100 9.37 0 05:06:39.014 (Ring): Nethra says, "Khizan using starburst." 05:06:39.015 (Ring): Nethra says, "Khizan using starburst." 05:06:39.017 512[131] 589[124] e- db 0 100 9.37 0 05:06:39.020 (Ring): Wysrias says, "KHIZAN hit starburst!" 05:06:39.021 (Ring): Wysrias says, "KHIZAN hit starburst!" 05:06:39.022 512[131] 589[124] e- db 0 100 9.37 0 05:06:39.026 (Ring): Kliko says, ": Khizan has been killed!" 05:06:39.027 512[131] 589[124] e- db 0 100 9.37 0 05:06:39.302 (Ring): Iluv says, "Target: Khizan." 05:06:39.304 512[131] 589[124] e- db 0 100 9.37 0 05:06:39.311 (Ring): Iluv says, "[BATS]: Khizan has been killed!" 05:06:39.313 512[131] 589[124] e- db 0 100 9.37 0 05:06:39.317 (Ring): Iluv says, "[BATS]: Khizan STARBURSTED!" 05:06:39.621 512[131] 589[124] e- db 0 100 9.37 0 05:06:39.916 Khizan lets loose a roar of triumph as he becomes a Champion of mortalkind. 05:06:39.919 Khizan has been consumed by the holy fires of Khizan. 05:06:39.920 Tyranoth has been consumed by the holy fires of Khizan. 05:06:39.922 Nethra has been consumed by the holy fires of Khizan. 05:06:39.924 Kliko has been consumed by the holy fires of Khizan. 05:06:39.926 The decaying hands retreat back into the comfort of the earth.
The normal stuff. There is a delay between the channel finishing and the Meteor actually landing. By the time you guys stopped me the Meteor was already falling and nothing could stop it.
"On the battlefield I am a god. I love war. The steel, the smell, the corpses. I wish there were more. On the first day I drove the Northmen back alone at the ford. Alone! On the second I carried the bridge! Me! Yesterday I climbed the Heroes! I love war! I… I wish it wasn’t over."
The normal stuff. There is a delay between the channel finishing and the Meteor actually landing. By the time you guys stopped me the Meteor was already falling and nothing could stop it.
Thanks, do you have the lines for the stages? All I have is:
^(\w+) slowly raises (?:his|her) arms and a blazing red sphere appears high above you, descending swiftly towards your location\.$
"On the battlefield I am a god. I love war. The steel, the smell, the corpses. I wish there were more. On the first day I drove the Northmen back alone at the ford. Alone! On the second I carried the bridge! Me! Yesterday I climbed the Heroes! I love war! I… I wish it wasn’t over."
Comments
Edit: As Ozreas stated then, it can be pre-charged by AM, but given all the fights I've been at with Karyn, she doesn't do it.
Man, I wish I could show you the choices we had.@Cassius: Kai is based off of that and kai seems relatively fine to me.
Granted, if Tidalslash IS an issue, we probably should take a look at a lot of the high damage sources in the game. Cassius really isn't kidding where getting hit by a reaving knight right now will absolutely melt most people right now.
@Iniar: Demonic doesn't have a lack of options. I've played on a side elsewhere that had to face raw damage classes with our assortment of affliction-based offenses and we fared well more often than not. I will state that affliction-based classes in team fights require a lot of coordination in order to make the most out of them, so they're a bit harder than limb-based offenses. However, to insinuate that demonic has a lack of options in groups (especially with some of the stuff they have) does their kits a large disservice.
"On the battlefield I am a god. I love war. The steel, the smell, the corpses. I wish there were more. On the first day I drove the Northmen back alone at the ford. Alone! On the second I carried the bridge! Me! Yesterday I climbed the Heroes! I love war! I… I wish it wasn’t over."
05:06:33.366 512[131] 590[125] e- db 0 100 9.37 0
05:06:33.670 (Ring): Kliko says, "Khizan USING METEOR!"
05:06:33.673 512[131] 590[125] e- db 0 100 9.37 0
05:06:33.680 (Ring): Iluv says, "Khizan CHANNED METEOR! METEOR INCOMING!"
05:06:33.682 (Ring): Iluv says, "Khizan CHANNELD METEOR! METEOR INCOMING."
05:06:33.684 512[131] 590[125] e- db 0 100 9.37 0
05:06:38.442 You are now holding a soulspear in your left hand.
05:06:38.445 Your grip is already relaxed.
05:06:38.447 You don't see your target in that direction.
05:06:38.449 You cock back your arm and hurl a glowing spear with all your might at Khizan, to the southeast.
05:06:38.451 Balance Taken: 5.60s
05:06:38.457 512[131] 589[124] e- db 0 100 9.37 0
05:06:38.995 As prophesied by Wysrias, Khizan has met his doom.
05:06:38.997 512[131] 589[124] e- db 0 100 9.37 0
05:06:39.003 (Ring): Iluv says, "Target: Khizan."
05:06:39.010 512[131] 589[124] e- db 0 100 9.37 0
05:06:39.014 (Ring): Nethra says, "Khizan using starburst."
05:06:39.015 (Ring): Nethra says, "Khizan using starburst."
05:06:39.017 512[131] 589[124] e- db 0 100 9.37 0
05:06:39.020 (Ring): Wysrias says, "KHIZAN hit starburst!"
05:06:39.021 (Ring): Wysrias says, "KHIZAN hit starburst!"
05:06:39.022 512[131] 589[124] e- db 0 100 9.37 0
05:06:39.026 (Ring): Kliko says, ": Khizan has been killed!"
05:06:39.027 512[131] 589[124] e- db 0 100 9.37 0
05:06:39.302 (Ring): Iluv says, "Target: Khizan."
05:06:39.304 512[131] 589[124] e- db 0 100 9.37 0
05:06:39.311 (Ring): Iluv says, "[BATS]: Khizan has been killed!"
05:06:39.313 512[131] 589[124] e- db 0 100 9.37 0
05:06:39.317 (Ring): Iluv says, "[BATS]: Khizan STARBURSTED!"
05:06:39.621 512[131] 589[124] e- db 0 100 9.37 0
05:06:39.916 Khizan lets loose a roar of triumph as he becomes a Champion of mortalkind.
05:06:39.919 Khizan has been consumed by the holy fires of Khizan.
05:06:39.920 Tyranoth has been consumed by the holy fires of Khizan.
05:06:39.922 Nethra has been consumed by the holy fires of Khizan.
05:06:39.924 Kliko has been consumed by the holy fires of Khizan.
05:06:39.926 The decaying hands retreat back into the comfort of the earth.
"On the battlefield I am a god. I love war. The steel, the smell, the corpses. I wish there were more. On the first day I drove the Northmen back alone at the ford. Alone! On the second I carried the bridge! Me! Yesterday I climbed the Heroes! I love war! I… I wish it wasn’t over."
"On the battlefield I am a god. I love war. The steel, the smell, the corpses. I wish there were more. On the first day I drove the Northmen back alone at the ford. Alone! On the second I carried the bridge! Me! Yesterday I climbed the Heroes! I love war! I… I wish it wasn’t over."