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Newbie Damages

JesseJesse Member, Administrator Posts: 108 admin
As you know, one of the big things we're working on in Imperian right now is improving the newbie experience. In our video tests, we've noticed quite a bit of discrepancy between the amount of damage different professions are able to put out in the intro. I've been collating some data to help plan out what we should do about it.

So while we all wait on the ISP I thought I might share the data and some of the conclusions/plans with you.

These are the numbers I gathered for initial bashing effectiveness as soon as a character is created.
Profession  Statpack      Damage  Speed  DPS
-----------------------------------------------
Summoner    Intelligent   522     270    193.33
Monk        Strong        481     420    114.52
Druid       Strong        565     347    162.82
Assassin    Strong        411     488    84.22
Templar     Strong        247     395    62.53
Priest      Strong        470     390    120.51
Hunter      Strong        556     295    188.47
Deathknight Strong        247     395    62.53
Mage        Intelligent   461     320    144.06
Wytch       Fast          275     212    129.71
Runeguard   Strong        247     395    62.53
Renegade    Strong        411     488    84.22
Diabolist   Fast          242     196    123.46
Wardancer   Strong        334     420    79.52
Bard        Intelligent   276     270    102.22
Ranger      Strong        617     449    137.41
Amazon      Strong        617     449    137.41
Predator    Strong        260     314    82.8
Outrider    Strong        516     439    117.53
Defiler     Strong        633     486    130.24

So one of the things that I'm thinking about doing is starting newbies out with the best statpack available for bashing in their current profession. There's a huge difference between someone who wants to be a xiur Summoner and someone who wants to be a sidhe Summoner.

For physical professions, that is usually "strong" but some professions benefit more from "fast", and for the intelligence-based professions, it will probably be "intelligent". I'm not too worried about evaluating the statpacks for tankiness, because the things that the newbies will be hunting are deliberately designed to not pose much of a threat.

Looking at the numbers above, it's clear that Summoner, Druid, and Hunter are all probably a little bit too high. The knight-type and assassin-type professions are all probably a little bit too low. A threefold between a Deathknight and a Templar is glaring. Wardancer is also too low initially, but we have to be careful there because Wardancer scales extremely well with skills and equipment. Most professions usually see a 100%-200% increase in bashing DPS going from Adept to Transcendent and getting some better gear, but Wardancers can easily see a 300% increase.

So over the next few days, we might be making some minor tweaks here and there to shuffle some of these numbers around so that all newbies will start off on more even footing. Some of those changes will most likely have an effect on bashing effectiveness at the high end, but while there are still some sizeable differences in bashing DPS at the high end, no profession's optimal DPS is more than three times higher than any other profession's optimal DPS.
Eujja

Comments

  • AhkanAhkan TexasMember Posts: 2,375 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 2013
    Doesn't chivalry rating effect damage -and- speed? That's a double-effect (low skill malus) you don't see in other professions.
  • JesseJesse Member, Administrator Posts: 108 admin
    Most professions have a double-effect like that.
  • SelthisSelthis Member Posts: 526 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Any chance  you can explain why the numbers are so high? Is it taking the unmodified damage from the server, rather than the damage that we see?
  • KhizanKhizan Member Posts: 2,648 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Where do those values come from? I don't hit 62 DPS as an artifacted and runed omni-trans Druid rolling full feather/imbue, and that's the lowest score you have up there. 

    Also, statpacks for bashing aren't as simple as "does the most DPS". The best bashing statpack is often not the best statpack for the class. Some examples:  

    • A newbie wytchen/diabolist who starts off in Fast is starting off with terrible health and a sipping penalty and may well be better off rolling Intelligent and being a bit slower and a bit tankier.
    • The newbie hunter or assassin who starts off in Strong is starting off in a statpack that's terrible for their class in PvP and they'd probably better off starting in Athletic, because otherwise they'll end up having to burn their free reincarnate on something like "not sucking at combat" instead of saving it for a possible future class change.
    • Priests have a lot of eq abilities in their PvP skills and are likely better off, overall, with athletic.
    • Druid staff/root combos can sync up badly with Strong and so Sturdy may well be preferable. With high air, a staff/root combo can have a time differential of .7 seconds. Etc, etc.

    I'd also consider giving them free reincarnations until their first mastered class, instead of just level 30, which should make it considerably easier to jump around while they're new and see what they like.



    "On the battlefield I am a god. I love war. The steel, the smell, the corpses. I wish there were more. On the first day I drove the Northmen back alone at the ford. Alone! On the second I carried the bridge! Me! Yesterday I climbed the Heroes! I love war! I… I wish it wasn’t over."

    Azefel
  • JesseJesse Member, Administrator Posts: 108 admin
    Selthis said:
    Any chance  you can explain why the numbers are so high? Is it taking the unmodified damage from the server, rather than the damage that we see?
    Yeah, these are raw numbers, useful really only for comparison.
  • JesseJesse Member, Administrator Posts: 108 admin
    @Khizan I'm not really going to go too crazy thinking about PvP balance with this.
  • SelthisSelthis Member Posts: 526 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Is the knight damage based on crossslash or whatever it is? Or dsl?
  • KhizanKhizan Member Posts: 2,648 ✭✭✭✭✭

    It's not really PvP balance so much as "If you start a Hunter out in Strong, you're starting them out in an awful PvP statpack and forcing them to reincarnate later so as not to suck, and the newbie might be better off in a statpack that's a bit worse at bashing and a bit better at everything else the profession does."

    Athletic is not a bad bashing statpack by any means, and it's it's a better Hunter/Renegade/Priest statpack than strong is, and I think it would be a better starting statpack because of it.

    "On the battlefield I am a god. I love war. The steel, the smell, the corpses. I wish there were more. On the first day I drove the Northmen back alone at the ford. Alone! On the second I carried the bridge! Me! Yesterday I climbed the Heroes! I love war! I… I wish it wasn’t over."

    Azefel
  • JesseJesse Member, Administrator Posts: 108 admin
    Selthis said:
    Is the knight damage based on crossslash or whatever it is? Or dsl?
    It's based on thrust, the newbie knight attack.
  • JesseJesse Member, Administrator Posts: 108 admin
    @Khizan You're absolutely right about Athletic not being a bad bashing statpack for Hunter/Renegade/Priest.


    *************************[ Bashing damage for Priest ]*************************
    Statpack        Damag Speed Type  DPS      
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Intelligent     332   390   ba    85.12
    Wise            356   390   ba    91.28
    Astute          401   390   ba    102.82
    Clever          379   353   ba    107.36
    Capable         423   390   ba    108.46
    Normal          423   390   ba    108.46
    Sturdy          423   390   ba    108.46
    Fast            356   316   ba    112.65
    Dexterous       401   353   ba    113.59
    Powerful        493   427   ba    115.45
    Athletic        423   353   ba    119.83
    Strong          470   390   ba    120.51
    *******************************************************************************
    
    *************************[ Bashing damage for Hunter ]*************************
    Statpack        Damag Speed Type  DPS      
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Intelligent     394   295   ba    133.55
    Wise            421   295   ba    142.71
    Astute          475   295   ba    161.01
    Clever          448   267   ba    167.79
    Capable         502   295   ba    170.16
    Normal          502   295   ba    170.16
    Sturdy          502   295   ba    170.16
    Fast            421   240   ba    175.41
    Dexterous       475   267   ba    177.90
    Powerful        584   322   ba    181.36
    Athletic        502   267   ba    188.01
    Strong          556   295   ba    188.47
    *******************************************************************************
    
    ************************[ Bashing damage for Renegade ]************************
    Statpack        Damag Speed Type  DPS      
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Intelligent     291   488   ba    59.63
    Wise            311   488   ba    63.72
    Astute          351   488   ba    71.92
    Clever          331   441   ba    75.05
    Capable         371   488   ba    76.02
    Normal          371   488   ba    76.02
    Sturdy          371   488   ba    76.02
    Fast            311   394   ba    78.93
    Dexterous       351   441   ba    79.59
    Powerful        432   534   ba    80.89
    Athletic        371   441   ba    84.12
    Strong          411   488   ba    84.22
    *******************************************************************************
    
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