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the fulfilling the bounty during a raid should be common sense but I believe @Gjarrus covered that with:Wyll said:The whole help file needs to be updated, but.. HELP SHARDS outlines the shard PK rules. HELP RAIDING outlines raiding PK rules. HELP BOUNTIES did outline what I thought were the bounty rules, but now it needs updating if you are allowed to retaliate on someone fufilling a bounty on you.
So then where does that end?
Laeka fulfills a bounty on Wyll -> Wyll finds Laeka and retaliates -> Laeka finds Wyll to retaliate for the retaliation -> Well, F it, Wyll wants more retaliation - > infinity.
And now if we are allowed to retaliate for someone fufilling a bounty on us, you need to make it so that bounties can't be fufilled during raids. Because if you are defending your city from raiders and there is a bounty out for them from your org, they now have an excuse to come after you after the raid has ended on that technicality.
@Gjarrus - On the topic of fleeing, if someone leaves a shard area, they are bowing out of that conflict because they no longer want to be part of it. Chasing after them well outside of the active shardfall area to kill them is ridiculous. You're fighting over the shards, that's the premise. When they leave the area, they are no longer a threat to those shards you want. Where is the RP reason for chasing them out of the area to kill them? We need RP reasons to kill in this game. It has been said over and over again.
if you are defending and happen to claim a bounty, lucky you, you get some money free with no consequences.Gjarrus said:
Event PK versus General PK - Event-based open PK (shardfalls, raids, obelisks) is safe from retribution outside of the event. General open PK (champion, mono holding, assassin contracts, bounties, 'pk right') is not safe from retribution if you opt to attack the person. The former overrides the latter.
I'm going to have to disagree with you there. Skill was a little part of it, but the major cause of the train wreck was the cluster**** we call magick. too many people calling out too many things making it impossible for people like me who have never been on an offensive raid to know what the hell is going on so that I can get back into the fray. instead I walked blindly into antioch at least 3 different times getting instagibbed by guards. No one offered to tell me what was going down, what I should do, nothing, it went from being silly in the ring to what the **** just happened and why wasn't I told? help raid can only give a person so much information. Take the time to actually train people like you promise, instead of complaining about skill gap. I can't learn everything on my own.Swale said:The skill gap is just... even worse than I thought, honestly (and I knew it was BAD). We are. Absolutely terrible at raiding. And so is everyone who isn't AM.
I don't think you can truly gain ground against people who are just actually smarter than everyone else. And that's before you factor in all of the years of experience. People don't like to admit/talk about that sort of thing in general, whether in a game or otherwise, because it's such a direct ego hit, but it's definitely a thing. I mean, there is a reason some people are chess masters and physicists and some people work at Walmart, and a lot of people are somewhere in between. It shouldn't mean the people who aren't chess masters are "worthless", but it's just unrealistic to expect them to accomplish the same things the other group can. And I think in a game, it's going to mean beating your (dumb) head against a brick wall without some careful consideration to make things less... frustrating. And raiding, more than anything else, is going to REALLY rub your nose in it.
Our raid last night was an absolute trainwreck, and on that one we really had no one to blame but ourselves. The problem with that gamewise, is I think it tends to stall things out fairly quickly. It's more noticeable/immediate here in Imperian because we're pretty small.
EDIT: basically, the answer has been brought up in several forms, but I don't think anyone has any concrete solutions that feel like a definite "oh yeah, that will work" so far, although people have spitballed a few things. You have to find a way to allow the weaker orgs to scrape some of their dignity off the pavement and give them realistic hope of getting their goodies back (with some improvement in teamwork/tactics - which IS possible, I don't mean to sound like I am saying we can't improve, because we absolutely can, and have).