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You've asserted that this is a bad thing, but I don't really think it is. Cities are currently in a state of utter inertia, and people complain they're boring while on the other hand resist attempts to make them, well, not.
If you enable raids as a daily occurrence, then daily raids will occur. Orgs being forced into combat on a daily basis or having to suffer an organization-wide impact is a miserable mechanic in the current state of Imperian. Add to this that the majority of these interactions, much as happened with obelisks and city raiding before, will occur off hours because they can.
The number of times @Lartus has shown up on my doorstep suggests that these aren't the instant security you suggest they are. And they are less secure in the wilderness than they are in the city - unless you don't trust the city administration not to screw you out of a house I guess. This is not an issue if you trust the city leadership.
When you could just save for tokens to buy a nontaxable artifact house outside your city and not worry about it, there isn't much contest. We have houses listed at 15k that we can't give away.
Shops in general have much more supply than demand right now, because frankly, you have a store for each and every single player that is online on average. That is a matter of the present economy and probably outside of the scope of the discussion at hand.
Shops aren't purchased for similar reasons. You can easily just pick up a token shop and plant it in Caanae. It will be guaranteed to get more foot traffic and you won't have to pay any taxes on it.
What specific part of the changes would change this dynamic?
My frustration with this is not that it's a PK objective, but that it's a PK objective that isn't supportable by the state of cities/councils right now and will turn into another off-hours grief fest, such as what caused the guards to be adjusted in the first place.
Nothing is currently stopping anyone from raiding right now. It isn't happening because with the guard changes, you cannot off hours bleed an org dry like you could before.
I think we're going to have to agree to disagree here. I think that it very much does have the population to support this. The problem we're going to run into is certain city that pride themselves as being the venue of certain playerbases and frankly seem to turn their noses up at others. Which, frankly, is no one's problem but their own, if they choose to shun PVP.
I don't believe that Imperian has the population at the moment to support a raiding mechanic like this and not have it become one-sided griefing. It will boil down to who has the most players hitting whatever objective off hours to hurt an org the most, especially given the maluses.
The forums do seem to be the boogeyman of people whom are adverse to a change, which is a sense of personal amusement to me since until getting back involved in the forums by commenting on the housing system after being burnt out on the forums previously I successfully had many changes I lobbied for by way of the BUG, TYPO, and IDEA reporting systems. To the point I'm sure I'm probably annoying @eoghan and the other coders to a certain degree.
One of the sources of frustration here is that this is the latest in a list of proposed changes that will be player-sourcedby the limited population of the forums and then placed into the game and forgotten about while the next big change is plotted out.
I very much agree with @Zerin here. This seems like certain organizations have just expected a certain income and taken no or few steps to try something different in the face of slacking income from those certain sources. I definitely remember those rings. Every day they were happening. Give a percentage to the city and split the rest between those present. With the things like wraiths and necropolis bosses being a thing now, as well as the strigoi, this could me even more profitable than it was in the past.
In regards to gold making: Back in the day city-wide bashing groups used to be a thing, which gives non-PKers a chance to contribute and earn favours/rewards (credits) in this way without actually needing to PK. In my opinion this is a good way to get people communicating with each other. There are also city-credits which the leader owns that can be transferred as unbound and then sold on the market. I'm not sure why you're relying on houses and shops as the sole source of income.
A passive stat bonus that is not analogous to straight up walking points you can wall off in a secluded area such as a house and bash with impunity.Tashi said:In that line of thinking, I guess I should complain that Cyr bought all of the giftbag stones from promo market and I am not able to use them. Suppose they should disable the effects of those during the Horror Hunts as well then?
It's basically giving people who are burning tokens (which you can't directly buy) an advantage over those who aren't. There isn't a way to level the playing field unless there are tokens on promo market. Artifacts you can buy at any time. Tokens are subject to player economy availability. Therefore the two are not analogous.Tashi said:So my issue with not allowing this is, the only people who seem to care are those who either are choosing not to do use the coins, or do not have the coins/someone to come tap for them. If your goal is to truly have a "fair" bashing contest then you need to make everything the same for everyone and this includes artifacts and dps, which is never going to happen. Sure, I could go buy and/or borrow artifacts from someone(I have) for the Horror Hunt, but if I choose not to or am not able then I am not going to complain about someone else having them.Khizan said:Please make those coins that generate ants/spiders/snakes/etc not work during these events, or make their summons count for zero. The ability to generate so many tiny 1-pt mobs on demand makes for a stupid amount of burst kills that is stupidly hard to overcome without a supply to an equal amount of those coins.
Jules seems to resent the fact that some people do things for reasons other than PVP, to read her posts. "Acheivements" is some sort of anathemea reason to motivate people to participate in an open PVP system. You know what? They can "dislike" the conflict in shardfalls all they like (I have never seen this happen myself, but I've only participated in a handful), if some cheevo hunter is participating in an open PVP event and doesn't want to fight then you know what they are to me? An easy target.
Personally, like @Caelya, they're my bridge to PVP. I come to this game both from places that were RP heavy and to RP (and bash), but the shardfall to me is an opportunity to group up with some allies from my circle towards a shared goal, which helps both IC in the sense of helping people get shards for their various skills and uses, and OOC in the sense of being a context for PVP that isn't just griefy. You don't even have to be a PVPer to participate in a meaningful fashion, you can just be a tanky mofo like Anette and sit there and harvest, while others defend you, and I appreciate that.
But let's be honest about one thing: if you do have a fair few shards already, there is no reason beyond it being open PVP to participate at present. Quest XP would be a decent one, I think - speaking as an aspect I'm still far behind on that particular branch and short of the ever-full generator there isn't really a decent way I know of to fix that, since more of the actual quests give piddling amounts of experience and even if I got it to level 100 I could just use it for perks or drops. I don't think it would be in some way disruptive, and it would give something of a more appreciable reward.
[Edit:] @Ailish 's idea also would be neat, IMO.