December Stocking Drops

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Comments

  • SarriusSarrius Member, Beta Testers Posts: 1,606 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The sad part is that stockings and phylacteries are decent to great value, but other booster pack/loot crate/gambling promos are not. I hope Jeremy's takeaway is that gambling promos should never have the potential to make you truly regret your purchase, and NOT that phylacteries and stockings suck. The opposite, really: while extravagant stockings seem like a shitty buy, every other stocking level is great. Promos that involve gambling, random chance, or loot crates need to be closer (if not comparable entirely) to the phylactery and stocking level of value.. that's the only way to justify the buy in.

    The core defining trait that keeps people coming back to these two promos is that the value can't possibly be less than just buying credits for most people. Only the @Justus and @Septus types find stockings less value, because they already have everything anyways.

    In closing? I hate promos. I think they represent a cancer that has ravaged Imperian in a myriad of ways. That being said though, even I think stockings and phylacteries are mostly awesome and really give people a way to buy in to the game at a slightly to much lower price. Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays, eh?
    Message #2062  Sent By: (imperian)      Received On: 1/20/2018/2:59"Antioch has filed a bounty against you. Reason: Raiding Antioch and stealing Bina, being a rightass, and not belonging anywhere near Antioch till he grows up."
    AodanAnette
  • WyllWyll Member Posts: 327 ✭✭✭
    Good value because the credit value is also set by the company, but if you think actually put things into perspective $100+ for a virtual sword is insanity. Considering we're on a text based game with a population that pushes 50+ on a good day. I'd have more flex on a bigger game trotting around a $100+ virtual item.

    But yeah, I don't think anyone should regret their purchases. Sadly, I've regretted purchases from not only this month, but also the last with that **** awful wheel that gets shittier with each cycle.

    I should clarify on my regret for this month and that is with the extravagant stocking, I've been happy with fancies I've hung for myself as well as friends. I've even messaged @Jeremy about the extravagant disappointment, but have yet to receive a response. So two thumbs up for that.
    You say, "Oh crap."
    You say, "My bottle is empty."
    Jeremy raises an eyebrow questioningly.
    Jeremy slaps you on the cheek.
    Sarrius
  • ZerinZerin Member Posts: 76 ✭✭✭
    I need to know... Did anything happen to the awful people who abused the phylactery bug? Because if a/ they didn't lose their stuff or b/ they got off without any sort of punishment, what is my incentive to be honest in the future when reporting these things?
    Ohm
  • SumieSumie Member Posts: 60 ✭✭✭
    Honestly I feel the opposite. This is like the third time recently they've bugged the promotions such that it gives more than it should. 

    There is very little way to know what is extreme luck and what is a bug on -random- gambling.  There comes a point when you stop blaming the players with "intentional abuse of a bug" on gambling where you cannot tell the odds.
    AnetteWyll
  • SarriusSarrius Member, Beta Testers Posts: 1,606 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Probably some time around when you buy something on the website and get something completely different is when you start becoming suspicious...
    Message #2062  Sent By: (imperian)      Received On: 1/20/2018/2:59"Antioch has filed a bounty against you. Reason: Raiding Antioch and stealing Bina, being a rightass, and not belonging anywhere near Antioch till he grows up."
    Zerin
  • WyllWyll Member Posts: 327 ✭✭✭
    Sarrius said:
    Probably some time around when you buy something on the website and get something completely different is when you start becoming suspicious...
    This is probably how it should go, but as someone who was accused of abusing a bug and legit not knowing it was a bug.. if you aren't around for tons of promos or are just coming back from a long, long break,  you really have no idea what is going on.

    The super special stocking that drops tons of stuff is also touted in the HELP STOCKING help file, so I honestly thought the phylacteries were the special stocking prize. I was happy for @Zerin and even congratulated her until she got news back that it was a bug.

    Has anyone gotten the special stocking yet?
    You say, "Oh crap."
    You say, "My bottle is empty."
    Jeremy raises an eyebrow questioningly.
    Jeremy slaps you on the cheek.
  • AnetteAnette Member Posts: 814 ✭✭✭
    Zerin said:
    I need to know... Did anything happen to the awful people who abused the phylactery bug? Because if a/ they didn't lose their stuff or b/ they got off without any sort of punishment, what is my incentive to be honest in the future when reporting these things?

    There is none.  It's why you always hear about it after the fact when people have exploited it and they find out, rather than proactively.
    image
  • OystirOystir Member Posts: 433 ✭✭✭
    edited December 2017
    I said this ages ago somewhere, but I would really genuinely be in favor of Imperian offering microtransactions that guarantee your purchase. Let me buy a 'vanitypet/familiar token' that'll give me any vanitypet/familiar. Let me buy a 3 pack of customisation tokens. Let me straight-up buy some artifacts for real life money at 35 cents a credit. Make special mounts available for money. Bring back apples and beans and token wares and promo items on a constant rotation for money money. Sell title token packs. Make some behaviors and special mounts that you can only get through these kinds of purchases, offer the city-specific ones for sale there. Go hog.

    Edit: zombie/ogre horns, mob reactions - almost any non-combat related thing could reasonably be sold all the dang time.

    And I don't mean these as promotions, I mean let this be a thing.

    Open up your revenue avenues away from the random-chance mechanics so people can catch up if they missed a promotion and so they can invest in something other than various levels of RNG. Right now the choices are to buy credits or gamble if I want to give money to the game. I hate both options because I'm not a gambler and I have to spend about 200$ before I can justify the per-credit price to my bank account and my bank account hates spending $200. Iron Elite is the only thing Imperian offers me consistently that is worth what I spend for it - its far more valuable than anything I've seen otherwise. Imperian's buy-in is pretty high for promotions in general and it offers minimal small-caliber reasonable-payout purchases for the more frugal of us. Give me a way to spend 5$ on Imperian on a whim and feel good about it. 

    /end relevant input

    ---

    Backpedaling a little to what @Justus said about the gaming industry, I've actually been pretty avidly following the media for a while. For those who aren't aware, Star Wars Battlefront 2 was hit with some pretty fantastic backlash last month for having a progression system that was intrinsically tied to the P2W aspect of things - a couple hundred dollars could leapfrog you beyond what hundreds of hours of grinding could accomplish. The backlash was to the point that it actually froze its microtransactions and has done a few little squeaks to try and relieve some of the grind associated with going the unpaid route. 

    In response we have a representative from Hawaii and an investigation in Belgium pushing for heavier regulation of lootbox-type mechanics in video games and trying to determine if it falls under the legal definition of gambling and how closely it should be regulated as a result. 

    I've been especially fascinated by this as a player of this game realizing that any result from this might affect IRE's system of promotions as well. Justus is absolutely not wrong that this sort of RNG mechanic has become commonplace in even full-price games. Imperian as an old-school P2W game certainly paved the way for this sort of mechanic and has since certainly followed the bandwagon on that front.

    That's all mostly an aside. I think anyone who hasn't followed the topic at all, especially IRE admins, it'd be worth at least a read or a few youtube videos to catch up on where the industry stands and how it might affect our little corner.

    tldr; Star Wars lmao
     You say, "This is much harder than just being a normal person."
    AnetteLynyssa
  • ZerinZerin Member Posts: 76 ✭✭✭
    I kind of think getting 50 phylacteries from a $5 purchase is a bit different to getting a good prize on the wheel... Even if it was the "special stocking" the HELP and the newspost say you pull it from a stocking, and you get hundreds of credits in value. 50 phylacteries is much more than "a few hundred" credits. As someone who got the bug, it was pretty obviously suspicious, which is why I did the honest thing and checked first.

    In this case ignorance is no excuse and it's a situation where you're best off being patient and messaging to ask. The reason I want to know if people got punished is because if they didn't, next time I'll just do what they did and keep the stuff, on the off chance the admin don't notice and I get to fly under the radar and keep it all. Because why not.
  • AnetteAnette Member Posts: 814 ✭✭✭
    The house always wins, when you're gambling, and if you're coming out ahead, it's probably a bug.  Its why these gambling mechanics are things that, as @justus has pointed out, should be avoided.

    They won't be obviously, and some of the responsibility for the current promo situation lies with the players who enable it.  If it wasn't profitable, the admin wouldn't do it.

    They may not get the choice in the matter if the investigations following the EABF2 fiasco actually bear fruit, however.
    image
  • WyllWyll Member Posts: 327 ✭✭✭
    @Zerin, those help files say one thing but we all know they don't always mean what they say. The wheel help file says I can get a whole map from spinning, but I can only get fragments.

    And @Oystir, I've been following the news on that and quite frankly, I'd love to see it being banned because games like this really trigger an addict like me and I have no doubt it triggers other people too that don't even know they are prone to developing a gambling addiction.

    It's all fun and games when we gamble here and we joke and laugh at each other when we pull ultra **** prizes, but these types of addiction and this gambling translates to the real world eventually.
    You say, "Oh crap."
    You say, "My bottle is empty."
    Jeremy raises an eyebrow questioningly.
    Jeremy slaps you on the cheek.
    Anette
  • SarriusSarrius Member, Beta Testers Posts: 1,606 ✭✭✭✭✭
    http://www.gamblersanonymous.org/ga/

    Since Dyron isn't here to do it.. 
    Message #2062  Sent By: (imperian)      Received On: 1/20/2018/2:59"Antioch has filed a bounty against you. Reason: Raiding Antioch and stealing Bina, being a rightass, and not belonging anywhere near Antioch till he grows up."
    WyllAnette
  • OystirOystir Member Posts: 433 ✭✭✭
    @Wyll said:
    And @Oystir, I've been following the news on that and quite frankly, I'd love to see it being banned because games like this really trigger an addict like me and I have no doubt it triggers other people too that don't even know they are prone to developing a gambling addiction.

    It's all fun and games when we gamble here and we joke and laugh at each other when we pull ultra **** prizes, but these types of addiction and this gambling translates to the real world eventually.
     
    Just as much as I support dolphin-level microtransactions, I would absolutely oppose them removing the type of promotions they have now.

    IRE do very little psychological manipulation. You don't have to go to imperian.com/credits and scroll down all the prices or stand at the roulette wheel to open a giftbag or phylactery, for instance. You get an easily-ignored announce post, maybe an easily-ignored announcement message for promotions. ATM you have access via the promo market to every single thing a person buying with $ has and can reasonably afford them through in-game grinding. 
    The inherent value (& potential value) of the items is the temptation that sells these promotions. That is how free-to-play games are meant to work. Fragments are just a logical and lucrative extension of that that people seem to want enough to spend currency on. There is nothing wrong with that, especially with how gentle IRE is about these sorts of sales.

    I can easily see that they could do more to confirm the ages of those buying credits and potentially limit the amount of in-game gambling possible in one sitting. But beyond that I don't think they are ethically responsible to do more. Predatory gambling in games is one thing, but you're an adult. From one addict to another, if you've been on a bender for several months, Imperian's promo system isn't the problem you're having.
     You say, "This is much harder than just being a normal person."
    Wyll
  • WyllWyll Member Posts: 327 ✭✭✭
    Oystir said:
    From one addict to another, if you've been on a bender for several months, Imperian's promo system isn't the problem you're having.
    No ****, Sherlock. If you think I am blaming an addiction I've been struggling with pretty much my entire life on IRE promos, then I don't think we should continue this conversation because you don't understand my sentiments at all.

    You're out of your mind if you don't these gaming companies prey on people with these type of 'loot' box promotions. Better yet, we constantly talk about how there is this giant buy-in to be a part of PK here, which is the main thing all of these games push, Imperian being a 'conflict driven' game. The most cost effective way to do so currently is to go the loot box/promo buy-in route and not straight credits. It's a FTP game but very clearly P2W.

    And your 'dolphin-level' microtransactions won't work here in a game that isn't visual. No one gives two craps about familiars or pets. Yeah, I'll take them as a consolation prize because I can trade them in for 1 credit since they usually come as added value items, but I'm not going to fork over $1-$5 for one because I have to collect them all.

    Everything we want cosmetically can be gotten through trade skills more or less. And if you want a custom pet, you can buy one via tokens or credits. The cosmetic angle really can't be used on an all text-based game. Maybe QoL items, but frankly they make more money when you have to RNG to get the item you want versus letting you buy it outright.
    You say, "Oh crap."
    You say, "My bottle is empty."
    Jeremy raises an eyebrow questioningly.
    Jeremy slaps you on the cheek.
    AnetteOystir
  • LartusLartus Member Posts: 340 ✭✭✭
    Chill out man
    AnetteWyllOystir
  • RokasRokas Member Posts: 64 ✭✭✭
    I will say that the best thing I ever bought on Lusternia was my custom pet, but their implementation is rather different. It was one of the first things I looked into when I started playing, but I came to the conclusion that it just wasn't worth it.

    Custom pets over there are basically no-limit pets + familiars here.  I think their beastmastery (taming-ish) makes a big difference too.
    OystirSarriusPepehi
  • OystirOystir Member Posts: 433 ✭✭✭
    edited December 2017
    I disagree with you on the value of smaller transactions. I am not the only person who has commented on the high buy-in of promotions in this very thread. I am not the only person in this thread who has said they make their purchases based on the things guaranteed to them, instead of because of the RNG aspect of the promotion.
    I absolutely know that the bound-credit package, lesson package, and iron elite - being lower-priced guaranteed value items - have netted a huge profit from more frugal players than credit sales ever could. I've spent more in 25$ chunks in six months than I did in my entire time playing IRE otherwise because I operate in a demographic where 5$ is not too much to ask, but 30$ probably is. Right now IRE doesn't give many options to people who would pay for nominal value if the price point was reasonable.

    I specifically named things that I would personally spend real-life money on. And at a few bucks a pop, I'd probably buy at least 10-15$ worth of any of the things I named in a given month, especially if they were consumables and/or if I could buy them for others the same way you can purchase lesson packages. That is 10-15$ a month more than I give them now. You're correct it'd be stupid to use this method to collect'em'all or to net profit for my purchases, but if I were operating with that goal in mind then these sort of deals wouldn't be for me anyway. That's kind of the point. People would definitely buy in if it revived a few old promotions, like the apples I mentioned earlier (which you yourself said you wish would come back), beans and animal wands. I wanted a miniature lamira and waited over six months for one and ended up getting it for free. Nobody profited from that. And I would've been thrilled to buy it and I think Imperian would've been thrilled to take my tuppence and stop me complaining about the rarity of the stupid things that I want. 

    I never said that the gaming industry doesn't prey on people's addictions. Every post I've made has been very clear that I believe they do - however, Imperian in specific does not apply the type of heavy-handed psychological tricks that other games employ. You are not taunted by the promotional items or led directly to them or blatantly shown how much worse your game is without them and all the other things I pointed out in my last post. If there were an example of a fairly-marketed F2P game with P2W elements, I'd say this is it. You can play this game for years and literally never see the screen where you pay real money - which is not true of 99.9% of other games that do this sort of marketing. As to the value and efficacy I have no real input. 
    Maybe you are being preyed upon by other companies, but IRE is not an abuser in that regards.

    Cosmetics absolutely matter in this game to a reasonable chunk of the playerbase. Being on a non-visual medium makes the customizations more valuable, not less, since the range of customization is literally whatever you can imagine. Did you really suggest crafting eliminates the need for cosmetics in this game? I actually don't even know what to say to that. 
    Post edited by Oystir on
     You say, "This is much harder than just being a normal person."
    Anette
  • OystirOystir Member Posts: 433 ✭✭✭
    It also makes little sense to me that you mention the dangers of the gambling present in promotions and then be so reductive of an alternative that would theoretically enable you to get the specific things you want without triggering your addiction. Otherwise you would just be buying into the promotions just for the sake of it, right?

    Something like this would probably cut down on the value of these items on the promo market, but it would trade 'street credit value' for 'Imperian paper money' in a very literal sense, in a way that is not dependent on whales spending wild amounts on disappointing RNG in order to generate the to-you-valueless items dolphins and krill are willing to pay for. Obviously things like earrings, fragments, assembly-items, gems, anything that actually like.. matters, shouldn't be depreciated like this, but as you said, a lot of this stuff isn't worth anything except to the people who want them anyway. 
     You say, "This is much harder than just being a normal person."
    Wyll
  • WyllWyll Member Posts: 327 ✭✭✭
    @Lartus, I apologize for my language. It's a good thing it's censored on the forums.

    @Oystir, k.
    You say, "Oh crap."
    You say, "My bottle is empty."
    Jeremy raises an eyebrow questioningly.
    Jeremy slaps you on the cheek.
  • OhmOhm Member Posts: 252 ✭✭✭
    9 Fancy openings

    Grease|Kegs|Gem 
    Cloak|20CR|Gem 
    15GLAD|lens| 
    Box|kegs|gem 
    mallet|cria|gleaming stone|gem 
    anklet|ivory figurine| 
    brooch|15GLAD|gem 
    celerity|pamphlet 
    brooch|mallet 
    image
  • ZerinZerin Member Posts: 76 ✭✭✭
    Astris got a boomerang and a vitality ring from a cheapie $5 stocking! What a prize!
    AodanSarrius
  • GaltGalt Member, Beta Testers Posts: 170 ✭✭✭
    Even if you don't get anything you specifically wanted, you don't 'lose' with stockings, outside of super super rare instances of buying 1 stocking and it being bad.

    I got 800cr tradein val out of a bunch I opened today, a quiver I kept, 15 gladiator tickets and 3 gems, and I'd usually get 400cr for the same price. 
  • AodanAodan Member Posts: 165 ✭✭✭
    You open an extravagant chocolate brown and white stocking and find a deep red boomerang, a multi
    -facet gem and a set of silver bracelets inside!

    from my twitter stocking! woo thanks again @Eoghan! I hope everyone had a great holiday, and has a happy new year!
    SarriusEoghanPepehi
  • OystirOystir Member Posts: 433 ✭✭✭
    Token of Creator & 5 credits
    15 credits & gleaming soulstone
    Token of Creator & pinecone candle
    Token of Creator & a small gleaming stone

    I opened 5 stockings this year (one from Leighanna, Lynyssa, Ohm, the mousehunt, and one random benefactor in Dagr's house - thanks!) but I can only remember what was in four of them. Is that weird? Yes. 
     You say, "This is much harder than just being a normal person."
  • MercerMercer Member Posts: 218 ✭✭✭
    I had the one from the mouse hunt, 5 credits and a ethereal chain, not bad for just catching a mouse
  • LynyssaLynyssa AustraliaMember Posts: 44 ✭✭
    Not a stocking per say, but a giftbag

    The rowdy notes of a drinking song, faint at first, then rising to the undisputed intensity of a
    Dwarf On A Mission, herald the arrival of Ironbeard the Magnanimous who casts his beam of a smile
    about himself as he arrives.
    Ironbeard the Magnanimous performs a grandiose bow, nearly falling flat on his face, and says,
    "Greetings, Lynyssa. Have a gift!"
    Ironbeard the Magnanimous just gave you a giftbag!

    A festive sparkling giftbag is holding:
    "page302141"              a tattered map page of Gadan Hold
    "lyre316222"              a Golden Lyre of Shallah
    "lure316504"              a fishing lure



    You point your finger at Wyll and pretend to shoot.

    SarriusAodanOhmWyll
  • WyllWyll Member Posts: 327 ✭✭✭
    But she doesn't get excited about the amazing fishing lure.
    You say, "Oh crap."
    You say, "My bottle is empty."
    Jeremy raises an eyebrow questioningly.
    Jeremy slaps you on the cheek.
    Aodan
  • DimitriDimitri Somewhere coldMember Posts: 278 ✭✭✭
    What's the syntax for an epic lyre solo?
  • RokasRokas Member Posts: 64 ✭✭✭
    Dimitri said:
    What's the syntax for an epic lyre solo?
    After many years of playing IRE, I would have to guess PLAY EPIC ON LYRE
    Sarrius
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