November Wheel Promo

WyllWyll Member Posts: 296 ✭✭✭
edited November 2 in General Discussion
I'll post my sample size of 25 spins below that was purchase from the website, give my thoughts on it as well as thoughts on credit paid spins.

A sparkling wheel slows down to a halt, rewarding you with a phantom beacon, an aventurine earring and a multi-facet gem.
A sparkling wheel slows down to a halt, rewarding you with a sonic emitter, a multi-facet gem and a sonic emitter.
A sparkling wheel slows down to a halt, rewarding you with a propaganda poster, an oblong
transmitter and a sonic emitter.
A sparkling wheel slows down to a halt, rewarding you with a devious pixie, an ancestral stone
etched with a dryad and a group of 10 corpseblood leaves.
A sparkling wheel slows down to a halt, rewarding you with a dispersing charm, a bottle of hot air
and a group of 10 corpseblood leaves.
A sparkling wheel slows down to a halt, rewarding you with a bottle of hot air, a devious pixie and
an oblong transmitter.
A sparkling wheel slows down to a halt, rewarding you with a group of 10 bluestar leaves, a
holocaust bomb and a holocaust bomb.
A sparkling wheel slows down to a halt, rewarding you with an irrational note, a phantom beacon and an irrational note.
A sparkling wheel slows down to a halt, rewarding you with a phantom beacon, a holocaust bomb and a group of 10 spiritsense leaves.
A sparkling wheel slows down to a halt, rewarding you with a group of 10 bluestar leaves, a
patchwork cloak and a phantom beacon.
A sparkling wheel slows down to a halt, rewarding you with a group of 10 spiritsense leaves, an
oblong transmitter and a gladiator betting ticket.
A sparkling wheel slows down to a halt, rewarding you with a phantom beacon, a patchwork cloak and a multi-facet gem.
A sparkling wheel slows down to a halt, rewarding you with a sapphire earring, a group of 10
bluestar leaves and a sonic emitter.
A sparkling wheel slows down to a halt, rewarding you with a hematite earring, a phantom beacon and a propaganda poster.
A sparkling wheel slows down to a halt, rewarding you with an irrational note, an irrational note
and a phantom beacon.
A sparkling wheel slows down to a halt, rewarding you with a group of 10 corpseblood leaves, a
phantom beacon and a phantom beacon.
A sparkling wheel slows down to a halt, rewarding you with a holocaust bomb, an irrational note and a patchwork cloak.
A sparkling wheel slows down to a halt, rewarding you with a patchwork cloak, a glacial bomb and a holocaust bomb.
A sparkling wheel slows down to a halt, rewarding you with a dispersing charm, a propaganda poster and a sonic emitter.
A sparkling wheel slows down to a halt, rewarding you with a propaganda poster, an oblong
transmitter and an aventurine earring.
A sparkling wheel slows down to a halt, rewarding you with a dispersing charm, a gladiator betting
ticket and a devious pixie.
A sparkling wheel slows down to a halt, rewarding you with a sonic emitter, a bottle of hot air and
an irrational note.
A sparkling wheel slows down to a halt, rewarding you with a propaganda poster, a multi-facet gem and an ancestral stone etched with a yeti.
A sparkling wheel slows down to a halt, rewarding you with a dispersing charm, a propaganda poster and a holocaust bomb.
A sparkling wheel slows down to a halt, rewarding you with a propaganda poster, a group of 10
bluestar leaves and an ancestral stone etched with a yeti.

tl;dr below with the number on the right being raw tradein value

9x    beacon.........144
4x    earring..........40
4x    gem..............4
6x    emitter..........96
7x    poster...........35
4x    transmitter....64
3x    pixies............15
3x    stone.............198
4x    charm............24
3x    bottle.............15
7x    bomb.............21
6x    note...............30
4x    cloak..............20
2x    gladiator tick..0 (these have no tradein value, but are considered 3 credit value each)
xx    herbs..............0 (no tradein value)

Total......................706

The above calculation is RAW tradein in. Meaning once in your inventory you can quickly convert it to bound credits if need be. which is why you see the multi-facet gem being valued at 1 credit. You can likely sell it for more than 1 credit, but remember that because we have a small population, it will be harder to move these items the longer we go into the month when more people buy. We see this time and time again with every promotion that offers things like gem and map fragments.

25 spins cost $180 dollars. Let's round down on the credit packages and say, we will pay .33 cents a credit if we look at the 600 credit package for $198, since that will be the closest package. At this price, for $180, we should get 545 credits.

With the current gladiator promo and gladiator tickets having a value of 3 credits per(if you win only, and consider too that the prizes have been drastically reduced. No longer will you find 750, 1000, or 3000 payouts.), if you buy 545 credits, you'd receive 54 tickets which is 162 credits in value.

545 + 162 = 707

With Iron Elite, we can safely say add 54 credits to this number(545 x 0.10 = 54).

545 + 54 + 162 = 761

Consider that this is a small sample size, and also consider that you absolutely can get lucky and spin a big credit prize from the wheel, but watching other paid spins as well, I saw a total of ONE credit prize awarded and it was for a paltry 25 credits.

Final thoughts on paid website spins.. I wouldn't buy any packages below the 25 spin package, because spinning 5 or 10 times is not enough for you to average out ahead if you are unlucky. This is a gambling promo through and through, so remember that. Overall, one thumb down, one neutral thumb.

Thoughts on credit spins at 25 credits a spin? Do it so the counter goes down and I can spin for the jackpot. Don't do it. Don't do it. Don't do it. Don't do it. Don't do it. Don't do it. Don't do it.

You will never come out ahead in the long run. The 250 prize pays out not often enough to justify chasing it. And when you put in 25, you are averaging a 2 credits returned in tradein value. Nevermind if you get herbs, that's 1 credit return because herbs are worth absolutely nothing.

Final thoughts.. two thumbs down, two big toes down.

@Jeremy Saunders - I think you guys need to consider the high buy-in for this promo. A starting point of $45 which is $9 a spin is way too high. Phylacteries offered a sweet spot of $5(a cup of coffee) and a fair return even if you were unlucky. I know I keep comparing promos with phylacteries, but that is probably the only promo where you will find 1.) players walking away not feeling like they were robbed. 2.) players not blinking twice about dropping $5 for a chance at glory. Or $24 for 5 chances.

As I type this I am getting tells from two players regretting their $45 purchase. The value simply is not there. And I don't even know if this is something that you guys are going to/can change because every IRE game has their prices for spins at $9 starting point.

If anyone has an thoughts and questions, please feel free to chime in or ask and I will be happy to answer as best as I can.

Edit: Left out a zero in my total. Oops!
You say, "Oh crap."
You say, "My bottle is empty."
Jeremy raises an eyebrow questioningly.
Jeremy slaps you on the cheek.
SarriusJapaAodan
«1

Comments

  • ZerinZerin Member Posts: 67 ✭✭✭
    I bought 5 spins! Many regrets. :(
    WyllLynyssa
  • DimitriDimitri Somewhere coldMember Posts: 249 ✭✭✭
  • WyllWyll Member Posts: 296 ✭✭✭
    Dimitri said:
    I got bombs. I'm happy.

    Bombs are worth 3 credits tradein. You should be mad if you paid 25 credits for a bomb or if you got 3 bombs for $9. Even if you count full value(not tradein) that is 15 credits.

    $9 should return you 25 credits at least, 27 with Elite. With current promo that is 2 tickets as well, so that should be 33 credits if you win safe gladiator bets. Bombs are one use items.

    Bombs are poop. Bombs are no good. Say no to bombs.
    You say, "Oh crap."
    You say, "My bottle is empty."
    Jeremy raises an eyebrow questioningly.
    Jeremy slaps you on the cheek.
  • SarriusSarrius Member, Beta Testers Posts: 1,555 ✭✭✭✭✭
    So, from the POV of a player that rarely buys in, I want to cover what turns me off about this promo. I think @Wyll's breakdown of any promo is very helpful for me because I'm never going to pull the trigger on a purchase unless I know I get my money's worth.

    I can't with any certainty say I feel like I'd get my money's worth off the Wheel as to currently stands. I don't really like promos that depend on random chance. I'm kind of exhausted by them because I don't like the idea of investing money to maybe get what I want. Our game is too small for trading-oriented promo items I think, which really hurts the EV on a wheel spin.

    I think the only random chance promo that successfully pulls it off is phylactery and maybe stockings.

    I'd much rather we go for something like Scepters (items you can level up) or Aetolia's Goggles (same thing, but a scepter that makes your Perception skills get nutso strong).. reliable, measurable purchases that pull in some people who really want that item. I don't want to buy wheel spins because the leaf items mean nothing to me. The only Wheel item I really want is the bottle of hot air.
    Aodan
  • WyllWyll Member Posts: 296 ✭✭✭
    Sarrius said:
     Our game is too small for trading-oriented promo items I think, which really hurts the EV on a wheel spin.

    This is probably one of the biggest things I think needs to be realized by players before they buy into these promos, and also something I wish @Jeremy Saunders would consider when calculating value on these promos.

    I don't believe us players are saying this to really dump on the game, and those of us who do take the time to come here and comment are quite invested in the game in many ways. Yes, it's been said so many times that we have a small pop, but I think it's time that events/promos are designed with that in mind. And when our population picks back up, we can slowly ease out.

    This is why when I calculate value, I strictly do tradein value. Because a couple of days in, and definitely come mid-late month, I'm going to have a hard time off-loading all the duplicate posters, pixies, blah, blah, blah, I get.

    Even on a populated game like Achaea, you're going to have a hard time off-loading a crap ton of stuff after so many people have spun. The market quickly becomes saturated. If these values are being calculated based on other factors beside tradein value, such as use/power, consider that you can only use an item so many times and in some cases, and duplicates are worth only their tradein.

    I don't know the numbers of last month's promo, but I knew of ONE whole player who purchased more or less a handful of crates. That's what you get when the market is saturated with items.  And that impact is amplified here with a smaller population, which means less demand.
    You say, "Oh crap."
    You say, "My bottle is empty."
    Jeremy raises an eyebrow questioningly.
    Jeremy slaps you on the cheek.
    SarriusAodan
  • AnetteAnette Member Posts: 789 ✭✭✭
    My reaction, however unhelpful it may be: "oh gee, another gambling promotion that I have to rob a bank just to break even on, PASS"
    image
    Aodan
  • GaltGalt Member, Beta Testers Posts: 152 ✭✭✭
    I feel like the value of this promo directly relates to whether or not you were present when the items included were previously available.

    For me, it's been great - I've finished my sceptre, I have the earrings I wanted, and other things I'd missed out on I now have a chance to get. Sure, for those who already bought in to the past sceptre/earring/map promos, it's not so great, but for those of us who missed them it's pretty solid value.
  • PhaPha Member Posts: 14
    Proving power creep issues as people don't want to buy unless they get even shinier stuff than they got in past years or they get to pay x credits to get a return on investment so they can buy more artifacts. 
  • WyllWyll Member Posts: 296 ✭✭✭
    Galt said:
    I feel like the value of this promo directly relates to whether or not you were present when the items included were previously available.

    For me, it's been great - I've finished my sceptre, I have the earrings I wanted, and other things I'd missed out on I now have a chance to get. Sure, for those who already bought in to the past sceptre/earring/map promos, it's not so great, but for those of us who missed them it's pretty solid value.
    Sure, but things have a credit value attached to them. We can really only look at tradein value for the majority of these items because having multiples of them are useless. What are you going to do with 10 bombs? 10 beacons? 10 posters?

    While I understand you value gems or earrings, realize that the gem market will become saturated once you fill your scepter. Now I have one less customer to sell gems too. Realize that a quarter of the earrings are also not very good in terms of their effects, making them less valuable to the population as a whole. I can only hope for a 10 credit return on them.

    Your definition of value and mine clearly differ and I am basing mine strictly on numbers. I will always base my opinions of promos on numbers and never anything else. Opinions differ on many things, but something we can't argue is numbers. This post, past post, and future post I make about promos will always break down values with concrete numbers so people can see whether it is worth it to buy credits and hunt down items or gamble on a spin/phylactery/crate or whatever.
    You say, "Oh crap."
    You say, "My bottle is empty."
    Jeremy raises an eyebrow questioningly.
    Jeremy slaps you on the cheek.
  • CassiusCassius Member, Beta Testers Posts: 607 ✭✭✭
    If you want credit value, buy a credit pack. You shouldnt really expect the credit equivalent to be close to a credit pack buy or there is 0 opportunity cost. 
    WyllAodan
  • WyllWyll Member Posts: 296 ✭✭✭
    Cassius said:
    If you want credit value, buy a credit pack. You shouldnt really expect the credit equivalent to be close to a credit pack buy or there is 0 opportunity cost. 
    It absolutely should be. Realize there are only so many credits you need to buy because there are only so many artifacts you can buy. I want the value of items to be on par with the credits I can purchase with the same money because of duplicates.

    I only buy credit packages when there are items attached to those purchase that I cannot get without buying credits. Aka, when idol fragments were first introduced. Did I want those credits? No. The credits became the added value item because I was paying more or less for the fragments and not the credits. When gladiator ticket promo comes around, I buy the credits for the tickets, not the credits.

    Why do you think they even do that? It's to incentivize us to buy.

    We have had a bit over a handful of actual artifacts that can be purchased directly via credits in the past year. Tons of them were tomes, and then the one artifact that lets you perform marriage ceremonies.

    If new items can only be acquired via gambling promos and added value to credit packages, those are what we are buying, not credit packages.

    What will you tell me next? Don't buy 100 spins if you don't want duplicates?
    You say, "Oh crap."
    You say, "My bottle is empty."
    Jeremy raises an eyebrow questioningly.
    Jeremy slaps you on the cheek.
  • WyllWyll Member Posts: 296 ✭✭✭
    Another 25 spins.. I knew better but I wanted another 25 to give it another chance. Regret. Regret. Regret.

    A sparkling wheel slows down to a halt, rewarding you with a propaganda poster, a bottle of hot air
    and a group of 10 spiritsense leaves.
    [Info]: 500 credit grand prize within the next 500 spins on the Wheel of Fortune.
    
    A sparkling wheel slows down to a halt, rewarding you with a phantom beacon, a phantom beacon and a
    bottle of hot air.
    [Info]: 500 credit grand prize within the next 500 spins on the Wheel of Fortune.
     
    A sparkling wheel slows down to a halt, rewarding you with a sonic emitter, a holocaust bomb and a
    group of 10 spiritsense leaves.
    [Info]: 500 credit grand prize within the next 500 spins on the Wheel of Fortune.
     
    A sparkling wheel slows down to a halt, rewarding you with an irrational note, a patchwork cloak and
    a group of 10 corpseblood leaves.
    [Info]: 500 credit grand prize within the next 500 spins on the Wheel of Fortune.
    
    A sparkling wheel slows down to a halt, rewarding you with a glacial bomb, a propaganda poster and a
    multi-facet gem.
    [Info]: 500 credit grand prize within the next 500 spins on the Wheel of Fortune.
    
    A sparkling wheel slows down to a halt, rewarding you with an oblong transmitter, a multi-facet gem
    and a sonic emitter.
    [Info]: 500 credit grand prize within the next 500 spins on the Wheel of Fortune.
    
    A sparkling wheel slows down to a halt, rewarding you with an irrational note, a devious pixie and a
    glacial bomb.
    [Info]: 500 credit grand prize within the next 500 spins on the Wheel of Fortune.
     
    A sparkling wheel slows down to a halt, rewarding you with a holocaust bomb, a group of 10
    spiritsense leaves and a group of 10 bluestar leaves.
    [Info]: 500 credit grand prize within the next 500 spins on the Wheel of Fortune.
    
    A sparkling wheel slows down to a halt, rewarding you with a devious pixie, a devious pixie and a
    gladiator betting ticket.
    [Info]: 500 credit grand prize within the next 500 spins on the Wheel of Fortune.
    
    A sparkling wheel slows down to a halt, rewarding you with an oblong transmitter, a gladiator
    betting ticket and a holocaust bomb.
    [Info]: 500 credit grand prize within the next 500 spins on the Wheel of Fortune.
    
    A sparkling wheel slows down to a halt, rewarding you with a phantom beacon, a phantom beacon and a
    gladiator betting ticket.
    [Info]: 500 credit grand prize within the next 500 spins on the Wheel of Fortune.
    
    A sparkling wheel slows down to a halt, rewarding you with a gladiator betting ticket, a bottle of
    hot air and a phantom beacon.
    [Info]: 500 credit grand prize within the next 500 spins on the Wheel of Fortune.
    
    A sparkling wheel slows down to a halt, rewarding you with a sonic emitter, an irrational note and a
    sonic emitter.
    [Info]: 500 credit grand prize within the next 500 spins on the Wheel of Fortune.
    
    A sparkling wheel slows down to a halt, rewarding you with a patchwork cloak, a gladiator betting
    ticket and a sonic emitter.
    [Info]: 500 credit grand prize within the next 500 spins on the Wheel of Fortune.
    
    A sparkling wheel slows down to a halt, rewarding you with a dispersing charm, a propaganda poster
    and a group of 10 spiritsense leaves.
    [Info]: 500 credit grand prize within the next 500 spins on the Wheel of Fortune.
    
    A sparkling wheel slows down to a halt, rewarding you with an oblong transmitter, a propaganda
    poster and a sonic emitter.
    [Info]: 500 credit grand prize within the next 500 spins on the Wheel of Fortune.
    
    A sparkling wheel slows down to a halt, rewarding you with a gladiator betting ticket, a group of 10
    corpseblood leaves and a holocaust bomb.
    [Info]: 500 credit grand prize within the next 500 spins on the Wheel of Fortune.
    
    A sparkling wheel slows down to a halt, rewarding you with an oblong transmitter, an irrational note
    and a dispersing charm.
    [Info]: 500 credit grand prize within the next 500 spins on the Wheel of Fortune.
    
    A sparkling wheel slows down to a halt, rewarding you with a group of 10 corpseblood leaves, a
    bottle of hot air and a sonic emitter.
    [Info]: 500 credit grand prize within the next 500 spins on the Wheel of Fortune.
    
    A sparkling wheel slows down to a halt, rewarding you with a group of 10 spiritsense leaves, an
    irrational note and a dispersing charm.
    [Info]: 500 credit grand prize within the next 500 spins on the Wheel of Fortune.
    
    A sparkling wheel slows down to a halt, rewarding you with a holocaust bomb, a dispersing charm and
    a group of 10 bluestar leaves.
    [Info]: 500 credit grand prize within the next 500 spins on the Wheel of Fortune.
    
    A sparkling wheel slows down to a halt, rewarding you with an irrational note, a bottle of hot air
    and a multi-facet gem.
    [Info]: 500 credit grand prize within the next 500 spins on the Wheel of Fortune.
    
    A sparkling wheel slows down to a halt, rewarding you with a bottle of hot air, a sonic emitter and
    100 Credits.
    [Info]: 500 credit grand prize within the next 500 spins on the Wheel of Fortune.
    
    A sparkling wheel slows down to a halt, rewarding you with a group of 10 bluestar leaves, an
    irrational note and a group of 10 bluestar leaves.
    [Info]: 500 credit grand prize within the next 500 spins on the Wheel of Fortune.
    
    A sparkling wheel slows down to a halt, rewarding you with an oblong transmitter, a multi-facet gem
    and a group of 10 corpseblood leaves.
    [Info]: 500 credit grand prize within the next 500 spins on the Wheel of Fortune.

    You say, "Oh crap."
    You say, "My bottle is empty."
    Jeremy raises an eyebrow questioningly.
    Jeremy slaps you on the cheek.
  • GjarrusGjarrus Member, Beta Testers Posts: 477 ✭✭✭✭
    I only bought credit spins in a successful attempt to grab the 500c prize. I got lucky overall and came out ahead. Otherwise, I plan to do what I always do with these and just pay for the new shinies that I care about.

    On that note:

    Great additions: pixie, note, poster, bottle. I personally dumped some creds into a pixie squadron and a handful of notes.

    ?: The cloak. Is it just a backflip on the second jump? Does it have some other special qualities? Does it cost balance?

    Whut: The herbs are an interesting idea? But uh. I got like 2-3 per drop of the ones from the 25c spin. Even the 1shot-inhume herb is going to have a hard time selling at 100k per (even moonwort hasn't hit that price with one person holding most of the for-sale supply), so they feel like a whammy. They look like something that should just be in harvesting as more fun easter eggs to make it valuable.
    Wyll
  • WyllWyll Member Posts: 296 ✭✭✭
    Gjarrus said:

    Whut: The herbs are an interesting idea? But uh. I got like 2-3 per drop of the ones from the 25c spin. Even the 1shot-inhume herb is going to have a hard time selling at 100k per (even moonwort hasn't hit that price with one person holding most of the for-sale supply), so they feel like a whammy. They look like something that should just be in harvesting as more fun easter eggs to make it valuable.
    Getting 20-30 herbs per $7-$9 spin is very hard to swallow. I saw someone getting 30 herbs in one of her $9 spin and I physically cringed IRL. It's a garbo prize that should be given as an extra add on in the way that gold is padded onto phylacteries.
    You say, "Oh crap."
    You say, "My bottle is empty."
    Jeremy raises an eyebrow questioningly.
    Jeremy slaps you on the cheek.
  • Jeremy SaundersJeremy Saunders Administrator Posts: 1,190 admin
    @Wyll - You have all of the common items from the wheel. The super rare, high credit items are just that, rare. We calculate out about a 30 average credit payout per spin for website spins. You math shows this is about what you are getting. This is the equivalent of a 30% credit sale. It is more if you take the time to sell off some of those items to people not buying spins. New item (except the leaves) have purposely been put into website spins only so you have a chance to sell them off for more to other players.

    I would love to give you guys huge payouts for spins, but we cannot. It would be crazy for us to have a spin equivalency higher then what we are. We could possibly push it to 40%, but I think you are looking for something significantly more then that. 

    That said, I am open to suggestions. If you can come up with a list of items for a randomize sale or another type of sale, I would LOVE to hear them. In fact, if I think it is good, and we make the items to sell, I will give you all the items for free.

    We cannot give huge payouts on the credit spins either, as it results in buying a spin, trading in the items for near the cost it took to get the original spin. Then repeating until you have every item for low no credit loss.

    @Sarrius - I know I've talked about this before, as I do not like coming up with new items and selling them in a random item format either. However, people buy them, so it is hard to stop making them.

    Side note 1: We are working on a couple new items similar to the scepters. 

    Side note 2: The average gladiator payout for tickets has been increased to 4 credits (was previously 3).

    Anyways, I hope this explains why we price items the way we do.

    OystirAodanCassiusSarrius
  • PhaPha Member Posts: 14
    Thank you Jeremy, excellent comments. I agree with what you said, but would add this thought - maybe make it where the website spins can never kick out three items that have 0 tradein value? In other words, if someone buy 5 spins, they don't run the risk of hitting 1-5 rolls of just leaves. Just a thought to mitigate the number of absolute "dud" rolls you get. 
    Wyll
  • Jeremy SaundersJeremy Saunders Administrator Posts: 1,190 admin
    @pha That is a good suggestion. I will do that.

  • ZerinZerin Member Posts: 67 ✭✭✭
    In regard to items, I would like to see wings or magic fairy dust or something, that I can attach to my pet, to allow a regular non-flying pet to follow me while flying - can't be mounted (or track?) while flying though, obviously. I get super annoyed when I use my wings to speedwalk and lose my bear, wolf, and kangaroo all in one. And then I have to take like... 3 seconds of my time to call them back. 3 seconds!
    Rokas
  • WyllWyll Member Posts: 296 ✭✭✭
    @Wyll - You have all of the common items from the wheel. The super rare, high credit items are just that, rare. We calculate out about a 30 average credit payout per spin for website spins. You math shows this is about what you are getting. This is the equivalent of a 30% credit sale. It is more if you take the time to sell off some of those items to people not buying spins. New item (except the leaves) have purposely been put into website spins only so you have a chance to sell them off for more to other players.

    I would love to give you guys huge payouts for spins, but we cannot. It would be crazy for us to have a spin equivalency higher then what we are. We could possibly push it to 40%, but I think you are looking for something significantly more then that. 

    That said, I am open to suggestions. If you can come up with a list of items for a randomize sale or another type of sale, I would LOVE to hear them. In fact, if I think it is good, and we make the items to sell, I will give you all the items for free.

    We cannot give huge payouts on the credit spins either, as it results in buying a spin, trading in the items for near the cost it took to get the original spin. Then repeating until you have every item for low no credit loss.

    @Sarrius - I know I've talked about this before, as I do not like coming up with new items and selling them in a random item format either. However, people buy them, so it is hard to stop making them.

    Side note 1: We are working on a couple new items similar to the scepters. 

    Side note 2: The average gladiator payout for tickets has been increased to 4 credits (was previously 3).

    Anyways, I hope this explains why we price items the way we do.

    I appreciate the reply, Jeremy.

    I'm not asking for a crazy and ridiculous high payout, but I want to be able to offload my duplicate items without taking a huge loss. You're saying the average payout is 30 credits, but if I get 3 common items and trade them all in, I get 15 credits.  Spin and get awarded 3 prizes of leaves? Complete bust.

    You want me to sell it to other people? Sell it to who? I have like 3-5 players I can actually sell items too, because these players are the only ones with credits to spend. One of the problems with this line of thinking is, we have a small population and of the already small population very few are going to actually have credits to spend.

    And since gladiator gold gambling has been a thing I have sold literally over 1000(probs more) credits on the market for some of these players to even get those credits for the circle effect of them coming right back to me. Sorry to say, but if I'm not on a gambling binge, the credit market is going to see a lot less credits that day.

    I love that optimistic line of thinking, but I actually play the game everyday and interact with people who want to buy and sell. There aren't many of them. Which is why I think it is important that tradein values reflect the unique situation our game is in.

    New items are also attached to these promos and I get why that is done, but if they are to be common, duplicates are a very real thing. Am I not to buy the bigger packages? Why even offer them if you don't want me to buy them?

    I get your point on the credit spins and appreciate the thought of only attaching new items to paid spins, but consider that an input of 23 for a return of 2 is even laughably evil by casino standards. But here is where I think the value of items is perceived differently by everyone than I perceive them. When I spin, I'm not even looking for profit, profit, profit, I do want map fragments from the wheel, but I won't be able to spin for long to achieve that if what I am getting back is very little.

    Again, I do appreciate the reply and I do appreciate what you do for the game, and I also understand for a lot of things your hands are tied because of IRE wide expectations. With that said, I will take up your generous offer and think of some sales or randomized items and get back to you.
    You say, "Oh crap."
    You say, "My bottle is empty."
    Jeremy raises an eyebrow questioningly.
    Jeremy slaps you on the cheek.
    Sarrius
  • AnetteAnette Member Posts: 789 ✭✭✭
    edited November 3
    Pha said:
    Proving power creep issues as people don't want to buy unless they get even shinier stuff than they got in past years or they get to pay x credits to get a return on investment so they can buy more artifacts. 
    I've been around for every single one of these promotions and if I wanted to just pay to win (in a mud with pretty much zero active PVP anymore...) I could very much have done so if I was inclined to spend the money.  What I want isn't a win button (though I'd be lying to deny its not what some people want).  What I want is, in a word, a novelty.  Something that is interesting and different.  Giving me a promotion that gives me the same old stuff or even better FRAGMENTS of the same old stuff that before I could buy whole - often for less - is frankly starting to get to the point where it's insulting my intelligence.

    One thing IRE I think dearly needs to learn is the same promotion that works on Achaea isn't going to work here.  Or on Aetolia or Lusternia, for that matter.
    image
    Sarrius
  • SwaleSwale Member Posts: 106 ✭✭✭
    Anette said:

    One thing IRE I think dearly needs to learn is the same promotion that works on Achaea isn't going to work here.  Or on Aetolia or Lusternia, for that matter.
    Even when we were healthier, Imperian really was a distinct population, and any potential new players need us to have things and experiences that they can't get in Achaea..  There are some exceptions (people truly "born" on a non-Achaea IRE), but the one thing that most people in a non-Achaea IRE have in common is that they very intentionally left Achaea behind and felt like they found something more suited to them.  At the very least, they found a change of pace, and rotated the two games in order to have different experiences.  I'd even go so far as to say that your main potential market boils down to "people who actively dislike, or are at the very least temporarily bored of Achaea".  

    But more specifically to this conversation, I felt that one of the things that Imperian always offered over Achaea, was value on the dollar.  I always figured it was partly because you're not playing on the flagship, and the other IREs seem to be somewhat similar in that respect, but whatever the reason, it was very appealing.    
    Sarrius
  • WyllWyll Member Posts: 296 ✭✭✭
    edited November 4
    Anette said:
    Pha said:
    Proving power creep issues as people don't want to buy unless they get even shinier stuff than they got in past years or they get to pay x credits to get a return on investment so they can buy more artifacts. 
    I've been around for every single one of these promotions and if I wanted to just pay to win (in a mud with pretty much zero active PVP anymore...) I could very much have done so if I was inclined to spend the money.  What I want isn't a win button (though I'd be lying to deny its not what some people want).  What I want is, in a word, a novelty.  Something that is interesting and different.  Giving me a promotion that gives me the same old stuff or even better FRAGMENTS of the same old stuff that before I could buy whole - often for less - is frankly starting to get to the point where it's insulting my intelligence.

    One thing IRE I think dearly needs to learn is the same promotion that works on Achaea isn't going to work here.  Or on Aetolia or Lusternia, for that matter.

    1. I'd love an iWin button. I'd buy it and annoy 2-3 people specifically at every opportunity I got.
    2. I agree on novelty, I don't even buy into promos for PvP items, but I realize their importance and do sell PvP items to PvPers. But that goes back to your point of zero to little activity. And then some of the PvPers don't have the credits to buy my junk anyways!
    3. The only thing coming in as fragments that was once whole besides wings/armour/transmute(these as fragments are fine, because even tradein is fair) and such are the costumes. I understand why those had to be fragments, however, because they were offered as free items in an event.
    4. I couldn't agree more with your final point, what works elsewhere will not work here and I've already explained why numerous amounts of times even in this thread.

    @Swale, besides the fact that I just like Imperian more as a game, we are offered more here when we do spend our money, no doubt about it. I was never more insulted than when I got a handful of herbs and 300 gold from one of my Acahea snowglobes. Or when myself and another player went to Aetolia, only to find out the item she lost from a looting NPC wasn't being returned because promo items aren't bound there!

    Security and value are where Imperian shines best. I love the game, really but I'd like to not feel like I'm being robbed.

    I thought about this a bit more.. @Jeremy, is it possible for you to publish the odds on all spins? Like what items have what odds? This will at the very least give me a very educated look at what I can and cannot realistically get and it won't really come as a shock or a surprise if I get whatever items X amount of times.

    Because you tell me the new items are common items, but I didn't really know that until I was told that on this post after I had already purchased. All I see is a list of prizes when I check the helpfile.
    You say, "Oh crap."
    You say, "My bottle is empty."
    Jeremy raises an eyebrow questioningly.
    Jeremy slaps you on the cheek.
  • ZerinZerin Member Posts: 67 ✭✭✭
    @Jeremy Saunders Wyll seems to think the offer of "if you design things you will get them for free" applies to him only. Please clarify.
    WyllGjarrusSarrius
  • SarriusSarrius Member, Beta Testers Posts: 1,555 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 4
    Where's my bottle of hot air?!

    EDIT: SHOUT is my favorite button. Also, have you ever considered Imperian scratchoffs?

    EDIT2: Hey @Jeremy ..  Spiritsense leaf is not good. Make it this:
    (RP): You say, "I'd change that to be 'you see the spirits of slain mobiles, which you can kill for
    spirit essence that becomes something like a jester'"

    (RP): You say, "The jester loot table would be different."


    Wyll
  • GjarrusGjarrus Member, Beta Testers Posts: 477 ✭✭✭✭
    Make it a UW bashing buff.
    Sarrius
  • GjarrusGjarrus Member, Beta Testers Posts: 477 ✭✭✭✭
    Pixie doesn't report any followers :( It also reports some mounts
  • LartusLartus Member Posts: 330 ✭✭✭
    Isn't this just all gambling? You can't win all the time V: 
  • SarriusSarrius Member, Beta Testers Posts: 1,555 ✭✭✭✭✭
    In a way, sure. However, this would be a lot like asking somebody to choose between buying a clear bag of M&Ms that you can see clearly has all the M&Ms in it... or, if you're feeling frisky, the mystery bag that will (probably not) have more M&Ms in it (potentially.)

    When I'm presented with a sure option I don't want to pick anyways and an option that could be better but so far has proven to fall very short, do you think I'm going to buy in? Promos are the only thing that could genuinely convince me to buy in right now and it would need to be a promo I feel I'm getting a true additional level of 'power' out of.. i.e the werewolf costume pre-nerf (though to be fair, I didn't buy that - thank you to my friend for the gift :) ) or just the decent value of the phylacteries and my potential to get usable **** out of it. I'm not going to phoo-phoo this promo because it seems to make some people happy and I also admit I am very hard to win the business of historically when it comes to IRE, but I will be clear when I say gambling promos that aren't phylacteries or maybe stockings really won't be how they get me. :/
    Wyll
  • GjarrusGjarrus Member, Beta Testers Posts: 477 ✭✭✭✭
    I actually read the fine print on the notes, and I'm sad that it costs eq. In my mind it was just a custom emote token without a 2p. I was going to unleash some dazzle in fights if I got a kill >.> Since it takes eq, the only way to get value out of it is if you don't include ($caster$) though. The approval process rules out use for illusions, and normal emotes are cheaper spam buttons.
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