PK and excessive promo items

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Comments

  • CassiusCassius Member, Beta Testers Posts: 593 ✭✭✭
    edited July 19
    Kyraic said:
    Owyn said:
    @Naruj then don't say "only 60%" as if it's no big deal. It's a huge deal.
    First, I am fairly sure it's 66%.

    Second, it's not a huge deal because there's a pretty good chance of escape there.

    You walk in, you throw down piety/ghands, they immediately try to run.

    1. ~33% of the time, they get out on their first attempt.
    2. ~56% of the time, they get out by their second attempt. (.66*.66= .4356 chance to fail both moves, meaning ~%56 chance to escape.
    3. 0.66*0.66*0.66=0.287496 chance to fail three moves in a row. ~%71 chance to escape by three moves.



    You forgot that you were chained by the third attempt.

    E: and also engaged.  
    TheophilusOwynSwale
  • AnetteAnette Member Posts: 768 ✭✭✭
    Kyraic said:
    Owyn said:
    @Naruj then don't say "only 60%" as if it's no big deal. It's a huge deal.
    First, I am fairly sure it's 66%.

    Second, it's not a huge deal because there's a pretty good chance of escape there.

    You walk in, you throw down piety/ghands, they immediately try to run.

    1. ~33% of the time, they get out on their first attempt.
    2. ~56% of the time, they get out by their second attempt. (.66*.66= .4356 chance to fail both moves, meaning ~%56 chance to escape.
    3. 0.66*0.66*0.66=0.287496 chance to fail three moves in a row. ~%71 chance to escape by three moves.
    That, and also that this is all made fairly moot by the fact that there's a great deal of ways to escape from piety/gravehands, that do not work if you are shackled.  It's a false equivalence.

    I'd know, until very recently, my reaction to someone rolling up on me was to run, and you don't see very many deaths on DEATHS ANETTE, do you?
    image
    OwynTheophilus
  • CassiusCassius Member, Beta Testers Posts: 593 ✭✭✭
    Who has the time to just chase someone around that doesn't actually want to fight?
    Owyn
  • DimitriDimitri Somewhere coldMember Posts: 193 ✭✭✭
    Cassius said:
    Who has the time to just chase someone around that doesn't actually want to fight?
    Everyone.
    Failing that, that's what the bounty system is for. Failing -that-, assassinations. Failing -that- gank squads when the victim/target is out for a walk. Cause how dare you run from a fight.
    AnetteAodan
  • NarujNaruj Member, Beta Testers Posts: 45 ✭✭✭
    The other thing chains do is give catch to classes that, for balance reasons, do not have much. You would never willingly give a strong inhibit to a monk or ranger, because limb classes are too intrinsically time bomb oriented to give that much lockdown to.

    This amplifies how good classes like Bard and Shaman are at the expense of classes like Knight or Summoner. One of the counters to high burst classes should be the ability for prepared opponents to avoid that burst somehow.
    You grabbed my hand and we fell into it
    Like a daydream.. or a fever
    IcariusSeptusSarriusAnette
  • OwynOwyn USMember Posts: 122 ✭✭✭
    edited July 20
    @Kyraic See the post about that type of logic. 66% is 66% every time, period. You are no more likely to get out on your third time than you were your first time.

    EDIT: @Anette people don't hunt you because they don't care, not because they can't. Also I'm definitely down to hear this great list of escapes. I'll wait patiently while you give me a list of combat-viable ones.
    SwaleAnetteTheophilus
  • NarujNaruj Member, Beta Testers Posts: 45 ✭✭✭
    edited July 20
    Owyn said:
    @Kyraic See the post about that type of logic. 66% is 66% every time, period. You are no more likely to get out on your third time than you were your first time.
    Correct, that's middle school statistics. But it's equally true that you're less likely to get into that situation 'from the start' with each additional iteration that you look at. This is the part that's important when analyzing game balance, or numbers in general really at the macro level. We do not need to know 'the next choice', we only need to know the average of choices over time.

    You could also, theoretically, Crit every bashing attack you ever make but that isn't going to justify an argument that mob damage is too high.
    You grabbed my hand and we fell into it
    Like a daydream.. or a fever
    AnetteKyraic
  • OwynOwyn USMember Posts: 122 ✭✭✭
    @Naruj Yes, yes. The point is that regardless it's still a more than decent percentage; everyone knows it and people are just blowing it off. It's not as if it isn't used with 1 to 3 other movement inhibiting moves at the same time any way.
    Anette
  • KyraicKyraic USAMember Posts: 64 ✭✭✭
    It is a decent percentage when you only need to block one or two moves. Somebody who's willing to fight and so isn't going to try to run until things have gone south and they're already pretty messed up. Defensively, to buy you a few seconds when you need to run. That kind of thing.

    However, it's damn near useless for holding somebody who is dedicated to running.
  • CassiusCassius Member, Beta Testers Posts: 593 ✭✭✭
    Kyraic said:
    It is a decent percentage when you only need to block one or two moves. Somebody who's willing to fight and so isn't going to try to run until things have gone south and they're already pretty messed up. Defensively, to buy you a few seconds when you need to run. That kind of thing.

    However, it's damn near useless for holding somebody who is dedicated to running.
    If you're trying to hold someone and the only thing you're doing is piety/gravehands, then you are just bad. 
    IcariusOwyn
  • IcariusIcarius Member Posts: 38 ✭✭
    Cassius said:
    Kyraic said:
    It is a decent percentage when you only need to block one or two moves. Somebody who's willing to fight and so isn't going to try to run until things have gone south and they're already pretty messed up. Defensively, to buy you a few seconds when you need to run. That kind of thing.

    However, it's damn near useless for holding somebody who is dedicated to running.
    If you're trying to hold someone and the only thing you're doing is piety/gravehands, then you are just bad. 
    Some classes only have that one 66% chance move :/
    CassiusKyraic
  • KyraicKyraic USAMember Posts: 64 ✭✭✭
    Afflictions and limb breaks don't count for these purposes because they have such a long buildup time. They're no use at catching somebody who doesn't want to fight. 
    Aodan
  • CassiusCassius Member, Beta Testers Posts: 593 ✭✭✭
    Again, if someone just wants to run and won't fight you, what's the point in fighting/killing them?
    Theophilus
  • OwynOwyn USMember Posts: 122 ✭✭✭
    Icarius said:
    Cassius said:
    Kyraic said:
    It is a decent percentage when you only need to block one or two moves. Somebody who's willing to fight and so isn't going to try to run until things have gone south and they're already pretty messed up. Defensively, to buy you a few seconds when you need to run. That kind of thing.

    However, it's damn near useless for holding somebody who is dedicated to running.
    If you're trying to hold someone and the only thing you're doing is piety/gravehands, then you are just bad. 
    Some classes only have that one 66% chance move :/
    Some classes only have chains. :/
  • SarriusSarrius Member, Beta Testers Posts: 1,472 ✭✭✭✭✭
    For good reason. That's why chains are dumb; classes that have no business getting hold skills get a fairly potent one.
  • TheophilusTheophilus Member Posts: 734 ✭✭✭✭
    Double post, but I love this announce in bug fixes after the uproar about promo items:

    "You can no longer FLY out of ethereal shackles."

     :D 
    (Ring): Lartus says, "I heard Theophilus once threw a grenade and killed ten people."
    (Ring): Lartus says, "Then it exploded."
    Aodan
  • OwynOwyn USMember Posts: 122 ✭✭✭
    edited July 23
    Double post, but I love this announce in bug fixes after the uproar about promo items:

    "You can no longer FLY out of ethereal shackles."

     :D 
    I mean... you and I are the ones who bugged it though. :wink:
    AodanTheophilus
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