Classleads: Summer 2k17

GjarrusGjarrus Member Posts: 290 ✭✭✭
Per the lovely livestream hosted by @Jeremy and @Eoghan, we know that classleads will be coming up after Engineer's release sometime before the end of the summer (Soon? *hopeful* *peer lesson pile*). So! No time like the present to throw out ideas for comments.

[I'll have my first comment soon, but I'm scatterbrained and have lost 3 posts since new discussions don't save drafts + I'm too daft to use a real editor]

Comments

  • GjarrusGjarrus Member Posts: 290 ✭✭✭
    Reflections

    Of all varieties, reflections are a bit cancerous in combat right now. Single reflections come at 1.9s eq, with diadem (all further eq times assume diadem) making a basic point wand at me|touch shield overwhelmingly effective at stalling. The ritual is better than old prismatic at turtling, offering 30-40 reflections in batches of 10 with only instakills (dangerous for user, stoppable by allies, and has no aff/damage pressure) and force commands (which you can just stay offbal for by spamming shield) as counters for classes that don't bypass it (AKA most classes).

    Solution 1: Alter the ritual to provide a reflection every 5s for 1m. Increase single reflection skills to use shield timing. This eliminates the immediate turtle power of the ritual and is a basic cost nerf to basic reflections.

    Solution 2: Make reflections fade after 1s. Alter the ritual to provide a reflection every 5s for 1m. This alters reflections into more of a timed block mechanic than its current use as a stackable turtling defense.

    Soluion 3: Make aggressive actions against someone with a reflection negate the attack completely, knocking the attacker off balance for ~1s instead of the attack's typical cost. While a bit ugly, it sets the time exchange in favor of the attacker at roughly the same ratio as shield (3.6s) vs hammer (1.9s).

    That's kinda where I'm at right now. Some other things I've been considering are not allowing eq/bal use with reflections up and making shield-breaks break both shield and a single reflection.
  • AodanAodan Member Posts: 44 ✭✭
    Gjarrus said:
    Reflections

    Of all varieties, reflections are a bit cancerous in combat right now. Single reflections come at 1.9s eq, with diadem (all further eq times assume diadem) making a basic point wand at me|touch shield overwhelmingly effective at stalling. The ritual is better than old prismatic at turtling, offering 30-40 reflections in batches of 10 with only instakills (dangerous for user, stoppable by allies, and has no aff/damage pressure) and force commands (which you can just stay offbal for by spamming shield) as counters for classes that don't bypass it (AKA most classes).

    Solution 1: Alter the ritual to provide a reflection every 5s for 1m. Increase single reflection skills to use shield timing. This eliminates the immediate turtle power of the ritual and is a basic cost nerf to basic reflections.

    Solution 2: Make reflections fade after 1s. Alter the ritual to provide a reflection every 5s for 1m. This alters reflections into more of a timed block mechanic than its current use as a stackable turtling defense.

    Soluion 3: Make aggressive actions against someone with a reflection negate the attack completely, knocking the attacker off balance for ~1s instead of the attack's typical cost. While a bit ugly, it sets the time exchange in favor of the attacker at roughly the same ratio as shield (3.6s) vs hammer (1.9s).

    That's kinda where I'm at right now. Some other things I've been considering are not allowing eq/bal use with reflections up and making shield-breaks break both shield and a single reflection.
    I hate to be that guy, but I'm going to have to play the opposite side of this when it comes to the wand. as a focused fired bard, I still died a ton even when turtling with the wand. even found that doing a self heal/affliction heal voice combo did better in most occasions. but when I bought it, being my first artifact for Aodan, it was the cheapest artifact that helped me get into combat. if you're focus fired in group combat(3+ people attacking you) and have time to reflect, and shield, then the opposing team isn't doing something right. I can see the wand getting annoying in 1v1s... but if the wand was to get any of these nerfs(fading, longer balance) I'd ask for a full refund of my wand and never worry about needing one again.

    so...

    solution 1) having the wand increased to shield balance level makes the wand totally useless. it becomes a 200 credit investment that I can basically get for free in shield skills/shield tattoos

    solution 2) fading after 1 second isn't nearly as bad, but then it becomes a niche arti, which I guess isn't  bad thing. I'd still want my full credits back just because I don't have an advantage over people using free shields since they should be able to squeeze an attack in between wand points(only costing them a fraction of a second if timed right), where people can possibly spam shields(I would need to test more and see what the balances on shield breakers are, but outrider's is pretty lengthy) to a more effective halt of offense(I would think anyways, since shields don't fade, and you have to break them to continue, costing you valuable seconds compared to the tiny amount of time you would lose just waiting till the reflection fades).

    solution 3) this is the only one I particularly don't mind, as long as the eq balance for the wand remains as it is now, because it still gives you an advantage over shield users.


    now to get back on the (hopefully) more popular side of things: reflection rituals. both solution 1 and 2 are the same for the ritual, and I agree completely with this particular change.

    the ritual is obscenely overpowered, and heavily weighted to the side that is winning, making it pointless to even regroup and try to go back to a fight. shields and single reflections already do a damn good job at slowing down the offense of others, but the ritual, for most of the professions in the game, puts a complete halt to it. I really like the idea of 5 seconds for a minute, it gives you some breathing room, slows your opponents down some, and allows room for more counter play on your part, such as using shields, active healing, shard healing, etc. yes this involves some skill/knowledge of your profession skills, but its better than throwing your hands up and going 'stahp hitting me!' and then sitting there watching as the opposing team loses all momentum against you, giggling all the while at how easy that was to halt some of the more complicated/more coordinated offenses in the game.  
  • KyraicKyraic USAMember Posts: 51 ✭✭✭
    Khizan said:
    Could we change the Wand of Reflections up a bit? Maybe give it 3 charges and make the charges recharge after a minute or so?

    Right now reflecting yourself has a 1.9s eq and it doesn't take any eq when you already have a reflection up, which makes it incredibly easy to spam reflections to the point of immunity against several classes. You can avoid half of every DSL forever. Avoid every Summoner spell. Avoid almost every Outrider stab. Avoid every druid quarterstaff stab. You can't hinder them to prevent the reflections because reflections are eating your hinder attempts, and you can't get any momentum towards a kill on them because reflections are eating it.

    It is getting ridiculous. It's a 200cr artifact that lets you turtle forever.

    Quoting myself from almost a year ago.
    Anette
  • GjarrusGjarrus Member Posts: 290 ✭✭✭
    @Aodan

    The wand isn't intended to save you from group focus fire, really. Even if it's bumped up to shield timing, you can still use it preemptively, use it against some attacks that otherwise bypass shield, and it can be used in some situations where you couldn't shield at all (immolation, numbness if you rely on tat, etc).

    S1 isn't my favorite with regards to the wand solution, but it's still more powerful in many cases than the 1s:2s ratio. Charges may be an option for it, though.


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