Neutral professions and their combat viability

VeratyrVeratyr Member Posts: 75 ✭✭
Figured I'd put this out there so we could all get a take on it.

Whats the current combat viability of the recently released neutral professions? Shaman, Hunter, and Berserker?

From what I know, Berserker has been relegated to kind of a support role. Don't see to many of them around. I'm less familier with hunter and shaman.

Any thoughts? I'm thinking about picking one up and wondering which one would be most useful.

Comments

  • AysariAysari Member Posts: 139 ✭✭✭
    Shaman is amazing, relatively easy and straight-forward to work out.

    Hunter is even more amazing, takes a little more time to work out. To dispel any rumours which I know have been floating around IG; triggers (The supremacy ability, not system triggers) are only as complex to work out as you want them to be. They're actually rather simple and straight-forward if you look at them.

    Berserker, the consensus seems to be that it's pretty rubbish, mainly because of how slow it is. It CAN work, but the other two are significantly better and superior. Its shouts are amazing in group combat though.

    In terms of usefulness, probably Shaman>Hunter>Berserker. (though they're all useful in team fights)
    In terms of the ability to kill, I would say Hunter>Shaman>Berserker, but that's just me. Some would say Shaman>Hunter>Berserker; both are valid depending how you look at it.

    Important note: In-depth coding is not NEEDED for any of these. They can help, yes. But they are in no way needed. Just highlight relevant lines (triggers/jinx curing/focus/etc) and you will be just fine.
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    Gjarrus
  • Jeremy SaundersJeremy Saunders Administrator Posts: 1,135 admin
    Good feedback here. I would be interested in what other people have to say.

    Eoghan
  • AysariAysari Member Posts: 139 ✭✭✭
    edited October 2016
    Mainly because I can't read ^^^ without reading it in a sarcastic sort of tone :s (sorry if it's not intended, that other thread kinda made me bad-tempered), I'll post a bit better now that I've burned out and vented a bit...

    Gonna spoiler each because they're probably gonna be pretty wordy.

    Berserker:

    Difficulty: ~4-5/10
    1v1 viability: ??/10 Very dependent on how well your opponent knows how they fight.
    Group: ~4-8/10 Decent. Not amazing, not underwhelming with the right people. I found a lot of people will underestimate just how amazing Haste is though, if you have something like an Outrider [or even a shaman/hunter now] with you. With an Outrider you're probably gonna annoy a lot of them, if you snipe killsteals with vesselburst after they've worked bleeding up :D

    Like I said in my initial post, the 'drawback/tradeoff' to Berserker compared to the other two, is that it's rather slow because of shout balance. No shout = you're very unlikely to be able to stack any sort of afflictions before you die. It has a very viable limb/disembowel setup if you can time transfix properly, but Pierce is much more reliable I found. All in all, it can give 3 afflictions- (all of which are 'smartly delivered' in that your attacks won't repeat afflictions they don't have), and it is probably the most friendly for newer people to pick up of all AM classes- but when cornered, it is pretty easy to hinder, especially if you can give both lethargy AND confusion. Despite its attack speed, it can very quickly get 7-8 affs stuck on you within a few rounds; by that time, your rage is gonna be built up and you can combo thunder + pierce shout to do about 4-600 damage in one go. Not entirely dissimilar to Brainmelt.

    Like I said: Not a "bad" profession, but probably wouldn't be my first pick, of the neutral ones.


    Hunter:

    Difficulty: ~6-9/10 (depends how fluent you are with combat)
    1v1 viability: 1-11/10; if you don't study triggers much, or pay attention throughout the fight as to what they're eating/how they're curing, you're more than likely going to find the 'viability' to be about a 2-3... If you put in the effort to work out just how a Hunter actually fights, you can cut through people like butter. Hunter was, and still is (in my opinion) the best "cure denial" profession in the game. No impatience? You can still momentarily lock them out of focus until you get impatience on them, with deaden (which also gives stupidity? I think). No hemotoxin? You can still momentarily lock them out of purge blood until you stick hemotoxin, with... Disease? I think. Which also gives nausea. Once you learn cure patterns/how to use triggers, you'll find yourself sticking 7+ affs in about 10-11 seconds pretty effortlessly. It's not an easy class to prioritise against, at all.

    Honestly I think that paragraph summarises Hunter as a whole. Give it another profession that can deliver affs? And it becomes a monster to fight against. There's a very good reason as to why Hunters tend to get targeted first in group combat: they are 'squishy' affliction cannons that will ruin your day, and your mother's day, if left to their own devices.


    Shaman: -- Hooo boy did Kryss make a ton of people rage with this profession...

    Difficulty: see Hunter
    1v1 viability: 10/10. Hands down (in my opinion) the best profession in the game. I'm sure some might disagree, but that's why it's my opinion!
    Group viability: Is this even a question at this point? Huge damage capability, affliction speed on par with Assassin/Hunter, totems (I'm not calling them Fetishes, sorry :( ). What more could you want? They're even tankier than Hunters and Assassins, too.

    I seriously have a love-hate relationship with this class. I love how destructive and unpredictable it can be; I hate how no one really wants to fight when you "git gud" with it, because it is almost certainly on par with Hunter, in terms of how effectively you can prio against it. Cure asthma/numbness: get stacked with mental afflictions. Cure impatience/jinx: they still afflict more than fast enough to lock you. They have lethargy, they have confusion, and they have weariness. Literally anti-physical class right there, especially if you use both balance as well as EQ in your combos. (Hi Septus :3) Tunnel vision trying to kill one: they're likely going to move a room or two away, and vortex/prop totem, which will end with you being locked before you can even writhe out of transfix. Prepare to likely lose quite a few before you start ripping through people, though. It is fast-paced, and probably has the smallest room for error.



    eta: the biggest 'difference' between Shaman/Hunter, I feel, is that Hunter has access to hemotoxin whereas Shaman doesn't. So if you get unlucky when they get purge balance back, and they purge a useful (locking) affliction, it's gonna set you back a bit.

    eta2: ^ Not necessarily a bad thing, it means you have to plan better to account for when their purge balance is coming. It would probably be a bit overkill if they had hemotoxin on-demand access.
    Post edited by Aysari on
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    DreacorIniar
  • AysariAysari Member Posts: 139 ✭✭✭
    edited October 2016
    I did forget how great Taunt is; all 3 neutral professions have a ranged beckon too!

    Lure / Vortex for Hunter / Shaman.
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  • AnetteAnette Member Posts: 588 ✭✭✭
    edited October 2016
    Kyraic said:

    Berserker is probably the premier support class in the game right now. A solid 3/10 in 1v1, it climbs to a solid 10/10 in most groups and 12/10 whenever teaming with a longsword knight or an outrider. It's incredibly hard to pin down because it has frontflip and backflip baked into the class, and it also gets sentinel->crash to clear the room along with a ranged beckon(Taunt). 100% chance to ignore rebounding, Sentinel dance can stop flip and it has smart afflicting capability that your teammates can reliably track off of even if you can't track worth a damn yourself. Reliable transfixes on demand,a guaranteed prone->stun, and the most powerful bleeding execute in the game. Oh, and its bashing weapon artifact is the shield, so it artifacts up for bashing cheaper than any other profession. Oh, and goddamn Haste.

    The Berserker is a stone-cold absolute team powerhouse that is criminally underplayed due to mediocre-to-bad 1v1 capability and middling bashing. It is an absolute teamfight MVP class that requires minimal coding and artifact investment. It is just massively undervalued due to poor 1v1 performance.

    I feel a lot better about Berserker being the one I kind of want to pick up on Anette when I can afford a new profession, now.

    Shaman is singularly punishing and yet rewarding. It's very fast and very momenteum based but slip up once and you're probably dead.
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  • SeptusSeptus Member, Beta Testers Posts: 696 ✭✭✭✭
    Shaman:

    Very good at basically everything. Steap learning curve compared to a lot of classes. Has some of the most potent team abilities (totems, vortex, can probably throw cure denial on that list). All around really good. I wouldn't say it truly tops the charts at either one v one (that prize goes to bard, no question) or teams (there are better), but if you want a powerful all round class, you can't really go wrong.

    Hunter:

    For one v one, the main problem with this class is a bad/mediocre hunter is a worthless hunter. There's not really a middle ground. Its a complete offensive monster in teams because of the terror that is brainmelt and high priority aff triggers. It does however suffer from a pretty fragile build, which should worry you if that's a problem for you (because if you're a good team hunter and die with minimal fuss, you are instantly going to the top of every good leaders hit list). Having a knight to defend you can offset this a lot, as your primary weakness is to physical damage. The support also is pretty great.

    Berserker:

    Very bad one v one class. Its very slow (needs the diab wraith treatment where the shout only takes bal if on balance, otherwise just uses its own bal). Struggles with super tanks. Being slow means you're predictable, easy to shut down quickly, etc. The payoff is also really meh for the time investment.

    That said, berserker is one of the most incredible team monsters in the game. With the right team, this class is just a machine.
    IniarZorantiz
  • IniarIniar AustraliaMember Posts: 3,213 ✭✭✭✭✭
    My thoughts, having used all three in 1v1 and group situations:

    Shaman 1v1:
    Excellent. Will beat most classes handily.

    Shaman Group:
    Excellent. If you have enough investment to take a few punches, or if you roll with a savvy monk/summoner/druid, you can be the decider between a win and a loss. You can babysit a heavy hitter by soft-locking peace and remove them from the equation, or you can be equally destructive by using quick ignites to blow through most resistances. Coordination with your team-mates turns you into a beast.


    Hunter 1v1:
    Excellent. Against smart curers and shruggers, you will need to be clever with rotating or changing your initial triggers, and be ready to swap strategies. Against everyone else, linear triggers will do. Having two kill routes is indispensable. Being able to achieve one of those kill-routes in about 16-20 seconds is worth the relative weakness to straight damage.

    Hunter Group:
    Now that it has gone neutral, I suspect the role of the Hunter will be even less important. Yes, pulling off a 1-2-3 brainmelt is nice, but it still has no sustainability. If you take too long to get going, you're going to get dumped by a claymore (hi). There will be a role for Hunter, but it's going to be niche.


    Berserker 1v1:
    You will be pretty difficult to kill, but you're also incredibly useless. Unless your opposition has no idea how to shield twice in a row, you're going to have a tough time killing anything. To put this in context, I fought with Zenigra for about 20 minutes, face-tanking his monster Noctu hits.

    Berserker Group:
    I agree with Septus, I would probably take a Shaman over a Berserker first though, simply because totems and ansuz are beast. If Berserker gets Druid's implode, then I'd consider it. Still, beastmode for teams, agreed.


    wit beyond measure is a Sidhe's greatest treasure
  • AysariAysari Member Posts: 139 ✭✭✭
    edited October 2016
    Iniar said:


    I would probably take a Shaman over a Berserker first though, simply because totems and ansuz are beast.

    Bad Iniar. Fetishes and Vortex, not totems and Ansuz! ( I actually had to login to check this.. I wasn't sure if ansuz got renamed to an animal too >.<)

    Fear the Porcupine!!
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  • ZorantizZorantiz Member Posts: 80 ✭✭✭
    is there a hedgehog mark? gotta go fast!!!
    fifth elephant - terry pratchett
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