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  • EoghanEoghan Member, Immortal Posts: 780 mod
    edited March 15
    Anette said:
    Jeremy said:
    Yeah. Not going to do tradeins for them. But I think we have removed all ways to get them from the game, and I doubt we will put them back in any time soon. So over the next few months you may see a demand for them start to grow.
    When was this done?  I got one from a free spin on the wheel not too long ago.
    They are still possible to receive from paid wheel spins if you have some left over, but you can no longer directly purchase wheel spins from the website. They were removed from credit spins at the beginning of the month. Message me in-game if this doesn't line up with what you've seen and I'll discuss/look into it more.
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  • WyllWyll Member Posts: 260 ✭✭✭
    @Eoghan, people are still getting them from the free daily spins. I've seen one person get it for three days in a row straight. I think that is what she is talking about.
    You say, "Oh crap."
    You say, "My bottle is empty."
    Jeremy raises an eyebrow questioningly.
    Jeremy slaps you on the cheek.
    You give a horrified gasp.
  • AnetteAnette Member Posts: 757 ✭✭✭
    Wyll said:
    @Eoghan, people are still getting them from the free daily spins. I've seen one person get it for three days in a row straight. I think that is what she is talking about.
    Correct.  I got one last week.  Tis why I wondered when the change was made, could well be that was just before it was.  Are they supposed to be on the free spins, @eoghan ?
    image
  • EoghanEoghan Member, Immortal Posts: 780 mod
    They aren't intended to be, but they are. We'll have it fixed shortly.
    Like what we're doing? Why not take a second to vote? Vote for Imperian at http://www.imperian.com/vote
  • AnetteAnette Member Posts: 757 ✭✭✭
    Cool beans :)
    image
  • Jeremy SaundersJeremy Saunders Administrator Posts: 1,184 admin
    Anette said:
    Jeremy said:
    Yeah. Not going to do tradeins for them. But I think we have removed all ways to get them from the game, and I doubt we will put them back in any time soon. So over the next few months you may see a demand for them start to grow.
    When was this done?  I got one from a free spin on the wheel not too long ago.
    Whoops, sorry. It was still in the free one. Fixed that.

  • WyllWyll Member Posts: 260 ✭✭✭
    Eoghan said:
    Gjarrus said:
    What's the cooldown on the mithril top?
    There is no cooldown on using the mithril top, but using it is a channeled action with the usual restrictions.
    ETA: Its channel is also pretty long.
    @Eoghan

    What is the use of this item then? Is it for fun? I am genuinely asking because if it was for combat, that long channel time makes it kind of worthless. Insight?
    You say, "Oh crap."
    You say, "My bottle is empty."
    Jeremy raises an eyebrow questioningly.
    Jeremy slaps you on the cheek.
    You give a horrified gasp.
  • EoghanEoghan Member, Immortal Posts: 780 mod
    Wyll said:
    Eoghan said:
    Gjarrus said:
    What's the cooldown on the mithril top?
    There is no cooldown on using the mithril top, but using it is a channeled action with the usual restrictions.
    ETA: Its channel is also pretty long.
    @Eoghan

    What is the use of this item then? Is it for fun? I am genuinely asking because if it was for combat, that long channel time makes it kind of worthless. Insight?
    It is specifically not intended as an escape skill; there are more than enough of those already, and it wasn't something we wanted to add to a new promotion item. It's primarily for fun and (potentially) for exploration.
    Like what we're doing? Why not take a second to vote? Vote for Imperian at http://www.imperian.com/vote
    Gjarrus
  • WyllWyll Member Posts: 260 ✭✭✭
    New tomes seem a bit expensive to me at 1000 credits each. Especially with long cooldowns for some and you won't be able to max out on their effectiveness unless you get pages. What the value of those pages will be after the initial novelty is yet to be determined, but I can't see a lot of people buying into the tomes right now at 1000($180 at the cheapest in the artifact cart) credits each.

    Is there value to these that I am missing? If so, can someone break it down and explain to me why these are worth what they are priced at?
    You say, "Oh crap."
    You say, "My bottle is empty."
    Jeremy raises an eyebrow questioningly.
    Jeremy slaps you on the cheek.
    You give a horrified gasp.
    AnetteTheophilus
  • AnetteAnette Member Posts: 757 ✭✭✭
    Wyll said:
    New tomes seem a bit expensive to me at 1000 credits each. Especially with long cooldowns for some and you won't be able to max out on their effectiveness unless you get pages. What the value of those pages will be after the initial novelty is yet to be determined, but I can't see a lot of people buying into the tomes right now at 1000($180 at the cheapest in the artifact cart) credits each.

    Is there value to these that I am missing? If so, can someone break it down and explain to me why these are worth what they are priced at?
    I might bite at 600, maybe 750 ish.  1000 is just beyond my pain threshhold for a novelty.

    For whatever worth that feedback is.
    image
  • WyllWyll Member Posts: 260 ✭✭✭
    I think 600 is still too high, but I'm curious to know the thought process behind the pricing of the items.
    You say, "Oh crap."
    You say, "My bottle is empty."
    Jeremy raises an eyebrow questioningly.
    Jeremy slaps you on the cheek.
    You give a horrified gasp.
  • TheophilusTheophilus Member Posts: 733 ✭✭✭✭
    The only thing these tomes have going for them is the fact that it's a treasure hunt of sorts to make them more powerful. It's fun to have to collect stuff via fights or quests for tangible benefits. 1000 credits, though? Ridiculous. The only one maybe worth getting for that price is Tome of the Bronze Shield (Fell One is cool, too, but I have a phantasmic diadem).

    Why would I want to pay 1000 credits to know when a shardfall is going to happen? We know about when they're going to happen now anyway, and the area doesn't matter. 1000 credits for a room to just AFK in? I wouldn't pay 100 credits for some of them.
    (Ring): Lartus says, "I heard Theophilus once threw a grenade and killed ten people."
    (Ring): Lartus says, "Then it exploded."
  • MathiausMathiaus PennsylvaniaMember Posts: 1,008 ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 2
    Data and gameplay are an open commodity from the developers for our small player base. Just weird they'd charge so much when people have so little to spend towards these things. Literally, a hundred things in real life (even on xbox live) I can purchase more amounts of or quality items for the same amount of money for than text data that does a certain command attribute towards a very small fighting playerbase that fights in infrequent increments.

    Other than time and effort, upkeeping on resources to keep the server up and paying employees, and possible other financial endeavours such as trips and investments, the price seems far above the value of the abilities. I know with talking with a few others they feel the same way unfortunately. $180 US Dollars buys almost an entire month of groceries. It pays a car payment. It's 9 full tanks of gas for my car. Both my electric and gas bill don't cost the sum of it. 

    It's easy to essentially 'build up' credits too, like buying $20 bucks here and there, or even getting the monthly based one as well. Thing is, these promo's don't normally last longer than a month, and by the time you've saved up enough over time toward the thing you wanted, it's normally gone.

    I would like to see a decrease in prices for some of these artifacts. They appear overpriced for what they can do, especially for these recent days of Imperian gameplay.
    image
    WyllTheophilusAodanTysandr
  • Jeremy SaundersJeremy Saunders Administrator Posts: 1,184 admin
    Wish Granted. I have refunded people who have already made the purchase of one of these items.

    I have not changed the Tome of the Rashirmir though. I think the raiding possibilities for this one could be fairly big.
    • Tome of the Bronze Shield:750 Credits
    • Tome of the Diachaim: 350 Credits
    • Tome of the Black Widow: 750 Credits
    • Tome of the Holy Martyr: 600 Credits
    • Tome of the Fell One: 750 Credits
    • Tome of the Rashirmir: 1000 Credits

    TheophilusAodan
  • OwynOwyn USMember Posts: 122 ✭✭✭
    @Theophilus @Jeremy Saunders @Mathiaus, I'm genuinely shocked. I don't want to come off as overly aggressive on this issue, but I honestly feel like recent artifacts and promos are going to kill the game. Just because no one is using them correctly doesn't mean they can't be.

    I haven't done this yet, on purpose. But seriously, between the aquamarine earrings and the bronze shield I would wager that I could kill most of, if not all of, the top pkers in this game with autocuring off.

    It doesn't say anything about my skill or anyone else's lack of skill. It says everything about just how powerful these items are -- these two in particular frankly shouldn't exist. I feel like they're going to be come (and maybe are intended to) must  have items for competitive pk. As Mathiaus already pointed out, those of us invested have already invested quite a bit, and that ceiling is only getting higher. It's not good for new pker's trying to get into the game.

    For instance, if I asked @Gjarrus for 5 spars -- even if I won one of those with autocuring off -- it would speak volumes. And not in a good way, at all.

    I'm more than willing to accept challenges to this and post logs to the forums on the condition that these concerns be taken seriously. Otherwise, I mean... hey. I'll just cheese it til you nerf it. Or get rid of it.
    AodanAnetteWyll
  • AodanAodan Member Posts: 89 ✭✭✭
    Owyn said:
    @Theophilus @Jeremy Saunders @Mathiaus, I'm genuinely shocked. I don't want to come off as overly aggressive on this issue, but I honestly feel like recent artifacts and promos are going to kill the game. Just because no one is using them correctly doesn't mean they can't be.

    I haven't done this yet, on purpose. But seriously, between the aquamarine earrings and the bronze shield I would wager that I could kill most of, if not all of, the top pkers in this game with autocuring off.

    It doesn't say anything about my skill or anyone else's lack of skill. It says everything about just how powerful these items are -- these two in particular frankly shouldn't exist. I feel like they're going to be come (and maybe are intended to) must  have items for competitive pk. As Mathiaus already pointed out, those of us invested have already invested quite a bit, and that ceiling is only getting higher. It's not good for new pker's trying to get into the game.

    For instance, if I asked @Gjarrus for 5 spars -- even if I won one of those with autocuring off -- it would speak volumes. And not in a good way, at all.

    I'm more than willing to accept challenges to this and post logs to the forums on the condition that these concerns be taken seriously. Otherwise, I mean... hey. I'll just cheese it til you nerf it. Or get rid of it.
    I'm definitely on board with Owyn with this. these new items really seem like game breakers for pvp, just from looking at them. I haven't even done the testing Owyn probably has and can look at these items and tell this. I really don't like the way this is going where we'll have super tanks that never die, and squishy newbs that will die endlessly. :/ I'm all for new, fun stuff but these earrings, and tomes seem a bit over the top.
    Anette
  • OwynOwyn USMember Posts: 122 ✭✭✭
    edited July 4
    @Anette Don't just disagree without a shred of ability to back it up. Your knowledge of combat in this game is subpar at best. I would take an unartifacted lowbie with those 2 items and dust you.

    Edit: better yet, I'll lend you all of Owyn's artifacts -- take those two items -- and dust you.
    AnetteWyllAodanIcariusTheophilus
  • SarriusSarrius Member, Beta Testers Posts: 1,463 ✭✭✭✭✭
    My first thought when I logged in for the first time in ages was, "Wow, that Bronze Shield book sounds like the nuts."

    My big problem is how inconsistently powerful some of them are - Tome of the Holy Martyr follows all the rules of normal teleportation skills, for instance. Fell One seems not really that useful either, unless it goes through another existing artifact (Gem of Foreboding), Tome of the Diachaim seems useless as all get out, and Silent Widow seems neat, but I'd need to know what 'every few seconds' really means before I get all bothered by the idea of it existing. Of course, then I read the listing for Tome of the Rashirmir. Far and away, I have the greatest issue with the existence of this one for the exact reason you won't lower the price. However, that's just my gut talking and I would need to see how it interacts with a raiding system I have actually no experience with before actually lodging a formal complaint or making a thread.

    What's the excuse for Bronze Shield, though? It doesn't even come with the consequence rider of Numbness, AND it lasts longer? We sure got heavy-handed with making new toys while I was gone.
    AnetteAlvetta
  • AnetteAnette Member Posts: 757 ✭✭✭
    Owyn said:
    @Anette Don't just disagree without a shred of ability to back it up. Your knowledge of combat in this game is subpar at best. I would take an unartifacted lowbie with those 2 items and dust you.

    Edit: better yet, I'll lend you all of Owyn's artifacts -- take those two items -- and dust you.
    -1 flamebait
    image
    OwynAodanTheophilus
  • GjarrusGjarrus Member, Beta Testers Posts: 433 ✭✭✭
    edited July 4
    At least with the shield, there's a hefty cooldown and counters. A 10-30% chance to get a cure from someone nowhere near the fight is worse than old priest range heal, and I wouldn't really want to gift a shaman a single extra aff cure in a 1v1.*

    *Even though it's technically a 1v2 with the remote healing and I'd probably die faster to most duos in person than I would with one of them + heals.

    E: Actual number comparisons for the earrings

    Stack-link Onyx or amber is a cure per second boost of .022 (from 0.067 to .089). Just eating herbs, aqua should be around .2 cps
    Owyn
  • OwynOwyn USMember Posts: 122 ✭✭✭
    Gjarrus said:
    At least with the shield, there's a hefty cooldown and counters. A 10-30% chance to get a cure from someone nowhere near the fight is worse than old priest range heal, and I wouldn't really want to gift a shaman a single extra aff cure in a 1v1.*

    *Even though it's technically a 1v2 with the remote healing and I'd probably die faster to most duos in person than I would with one of them + heals.

    E: Actual number comparisons for the earrings

    Stack-link Onyx or amber is a cure per second boost of .022 (from 0.067 to .089). Just eating herbs, aqua should be around ~.2 to .3 cps
    It's a one hour cooldown. The counters are absolutely irrelevant and it only uses 1.9s of eq (with diadem.) It blocks all incoming damage to health. As someone not currently playing a straight damage class I'm not bringing this up out of self-interest; I'm speaking universally. It's a 15 second absorb during which you can do anything you would do normally; and worse, it can get upgraded with pages.

    I don't know how much testing you've done with aquamarine, but it's asinine. The link onyx and link amber are nice, but not OP. With any profession. You can still see when people tree/purge. You know what there is zero 3p message for? Someone healing someone else's afflictions with aquamarine.

    It actually penalizes you for being better at tracking. The worse you are at tracking, the less aquamarine matters.

    I mean seriously though -- in all seriousness -- am I the only pker at this point not completely absorbed with the "what will benefit me" frame of mind? I'm genuinely concerned  about the balance of this game.

    My offer for spars with autocuring off isn't disingenuous. As I stated earlier it's not to say, "Oh look how good I am." I really, really want people to be aware of exactly what is possible with these things. It's cancerous.
    AnetteAodanAlvetta
  • OwynOwyn USMember Posts: 122 ✭✭✭
    @Sarrius I could be wrong about the Rashirmir tome, but reading it -- it actually doesn't seem to be good for sneaking a party into a city at all (book stays in room it's dropped in, people must enter from said room, once book is picked up by owner everyone comes out.)

    What it really seems to be to me when they say "good for raids" is a veiled hint that it's a 1kcr counter to radiance for people not good at countering radiance.
    Anette
  • SarriusSarrius Member, Beta Testers Posts: 1,463 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited July 4
    Owyn said:
    @Sarrius I could be wrong about the Rashirmir tome, but reading it -- it actually doesn't seem to be good for sneaking a party into a city at all (book stays in room it's dropped in, people must enter from said room, once book is picked up by owner everyone comes out.)

    What it really seems to be to me when they say "good for raids" is a veiled hint that it's a 1kcr counter to radiance for people not good at countering radiance.
    From the outside, you are correct. This is, in a way, a better and worse auction tent. My issue comes forward, right now, when it comes to how the refusal was raised rather than anything. I interpret it as this:

    "It has implications for raiding; I might not know what they are, in which case this is throwing a wild element in to the mix I might have to change later. Until then, spend $300 and lets see where it goes."

    It is an artifact that reeks wholly of spaghetti thrown at a wall.
    OwynAnette
  • DyronDyron Member Posts: 10
    The tome of Rashirmir I don't see being a big deal. People can chase inside of it so it's not too ground breaking. The price is completely obnoxious and I wouldn't even think of paying for it.

    The bronze shield tome is ground breaking. This is just another item that throws off any type of game balance and gives another easy button for those with the credit flow. Like a long list of recent artifacts, this has been put in without thinking of balance issues. I rate it up there with a lot of the earrings that boost purge, tree, balance, etc. There is NO way to balance around these. The only way I see this item being somewhat balanced if it works on players only and not mobiles but then again that makes the price not anywhere near worth it.


    AnetteOwynAodan
  • GjarrusGjarrus Member, Beta Testers Posts: 433 ✭✭✭
    edited July 4
    I was agreeing with you on the aquamarine? It's 1000% better than onyx or amber, literally. E: And yeah, the tome is definitely strong. I wouldn't want to see Septus with it. It's just not going to swing an entire war on its own (mostly because of the cooldown, but slightly because you should still be susceptible to afflictions and instakills).
    Anette
  • OwynOwyn USMember Posts: 122 ✭✭✭
    @Gjarrus right. I was just pointing out also the no 3p (and also also, it makes a ton of affs completely irrelevant. Lol anorexia?)
    GjarrusAlvetta
  • SarriusSarrius Member, Beta Testers Posts: 1,463 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Earrings are nuts too, actually. Any of the ones that alters the balance time of a curative, for instance, were an awful idea to offer. When you make classes or skills, you are making them with the knowledge that there are some constants in the equation - focus/tree/purge/herb/sip/apply/smoke balances are some of these constants. Classes are built on those fundamental aspects of combat. Offering an item that fudges those numbers would have been a can of worms I thought we'd be more hesitant to open. The same goes for balance or equilibrium speed.

    As for Aquamarine - that is essentially offering to let somebody heal you in the back seat all the way from the safety of their town. That offplane restriction trinket text is effectively not a downside because the majority of combat happens on a single plane and continent. You might argue that the success rate is the limiting factor here, but I'll gladly take that benefit while my linked buddy AFKs for me. A greater than 0% chance to have somebody else doing my curing for me, six areas away, is a chance I'm likely to consider.
    AnetteOwynOystir
  • Jeremy SaundersJeremy Saunders Administrator Posts: 1,184 admin
    I'm not ignoring your concerns here. I'm out of town for the holiday.

    For the aquamarine, I wonder if making it area confined would be a idea people could get behind. At least then the person doing the curing is at risk. Perhaps with a room message indicating the character had been cured by unknown power.

    For the tome, I think the time may be a bit too long. With the hour cool down, I think it is just a short respite from damage more then anything. Of course, the effectiveness of that is dependent upon the class you are fighting. 

    I will think about this a little more today as you guys give more feedback. 

    AlvettaOwynAodan
  • AlvettaAlvetta Member Posts: 22 ✭✭
    edited July 4
    I'm worried about the bronze tome too, it's crazy to think that a person fighting with afflictions would be immune to a person fighting with damage all the while being able to continue their attack for 15 seconds. That's huge. It's way worse than the reflection ritual which is soon to be nerfed for similar reasons. There was a large span of time in this game where PK was almost entirely dead. I know PKers spend the most money and that is needed for a thriving game, but any arti (bronze tome, aquamarine, etc.) that significantly throws off the balance for fighters is gonna risk taking us back to where we were or worse. Keep PK alive!
  • GjarrusGjarrus Member, Beta Testers Posts: 433 ✭✭✭
    @Jeremy In-area is barely at risk, and the room message might as well be cecho("Yeah, um, don't bother afflicting.") The combination of extra cures and extra guesses is nuts. Maybe if it's in-room with blatant 3p cures, so at least it's *actually* a 1v2 scenario and the correct answer would be to get more affliction output/try something else with even odds anyway.
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