Monolith Combat

TydenTyden Member Posts: 50 ✭✭✭
If a "enemy" Aspect(sorry I am not fully knowledgeable in all of this) comes to a a monolith that you are trying to control. Are they free game to attack? Or do they have to attack you first?

I am hearing different things with almost everyone I speak to. Thanks for the clarity on it

Comments

  • IluvIluv Member Posts: 703 ✭✭✭✭
    If anyone shows to the room where you are trying to control, you can and should assume they are hostile and KoS .
    image
    EldrethSeptus
  • TydenTyden Member Posts: 50 ✭✭✭
    edited August 2016
    Okay....because I attacked and then i was told it was issueable. Just trying to understand.

    Also for clarity:

    I was "protecting" another Aspect at the time. I was not the one controlling it.
  • JulesJules Member Posts: 1,080 ✭✭✭
    edited August 2016
    I feel like there is actually quite a lot of misunderstanding about the actual PK rules, which are pretty nuanced, and pretty detailed, whether we like it or not. They're just not written down, so if you don't know people who know, or ask the question (and even then, sometimes you have to know enough to ask the RIGHT question), I really do think you are a real disadvantage.

    A lot of times that is going to mean you will be unnecessarily cautious. But it could also mean you think you have a "case" when you really don't. If you get issued yourself, you probably won't write as effective of a response, and you won't have been on as solid a footing to begin with - as much as we'd like to think it's as simple as "don't be a jerk". It's often not.

    Case in point on overly cautious, some Celidonians were TERRIFIED to defend/help a fellow citymate being attacked "one out" from their own gates because they thought they could be hunted for it, and that if you defended someone in a situation like that, and ran back into the city at all, that that meant Celidon could now be raided (as if it couldn't in any case, and as though a raid wouldn't be completely pointless anymore either way) :(
  • TydenTyden Member Posts: 50 ✭✭✭
    I am not really sure I follow what that had to do with monolith combat? Maybe I missed the point.

    From what I am hearing, the other "aspect" must engage the "aspects" controlling before the controlling aspects can attack.

    I am not sure how this makes sense, and especially given one shot kill skills. How this would be an acceptable way of pk.
  • JulesJules Member Posts: 1,080 ✭✭✭
    Just the fact that you had to ask at all. And no, you can attack on sight, like Iluv said. I'd say try not to be a **** if some guy who isn't an aspect (and thus won't see the worldwide message) pops in at say, the Demon's Pass mono (which is also a bashing area), but you can attack on sight.
  • TydenTyden Member Posts: 50 ✭✭✭
    Well as a new player....seeking clarity is something well within reason in any game. Especially when it's tossed at you that you could be or should be issued for it.
    Serobhan
  • JulesJules Member Posts: 1,080 ✭✭✭
    edited August 2016
    Everyone who attacks each other at a mono fight also has "follow up" PK. Technically. It is generally poor form to hunt people down after a mono fight though (except of course the guy who is the holder if he managed to control the mono).

    BUT, if Jules went to a mono with 3-4 of her best friends when there were hardly any magickers or demonic around, and Iluv comes and dies bravely all alone, you had better believe Iluv will hunt each of us down (so basically, if you think one side or the other was a bit lame about it, you will cash in that follow up PK).

    EDIT: and even the portion of this that is actual hard rule isn't written down that I have ever been able to find. So you don't know unless someone tells you.
    Theophilus
  • IluvIluv Member Posts: 703 ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 2016
    The idiot who threatened to issue you had no other intention other than to attack or hostage you or the friend you were protecting. She knows this too but still tried to use the threat of an issue because she is a bad person. If she does this again and runs, you should hunt her or let someone know that you have rights on her so they can hunt her instead.
    image
    EldrethTydenBaascheIniar
  • KhizanKhizan Member Posts: 2,648 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Jules said:

    It is generally poor form to hunt people down after a mono fight though (except of course the guy who is the holder if he managed to control the mono).

    No.

    YOU think it is poor form. Everybody else does this pretty frequently.

    "On the battlefield I am a god. I love war. The steel, the smell, the corpses. I wish there were more. On the first day I drove the Northmen back alone at the ford. Alone! On the second I carried the bridge! Me! Yesterday I climbed the Heroes! I love war! I… I wish it wasn’t over."

    Theophilus
  • SeptusSeptus Member, Beta Testers Posts: 701 ✭✭✭✭
    If an aspect walks into your room at a monolith, they're there to fight or didn't know how to config monoliths on yet. If its the latter its your civic duty to educate them as an upstanding member of the community.
    Khizan
  • JulesJules Member Posts: 1,080 ✭✭✭
    edited August 2016
    I have literally never seen it... Ever (in response to Khizan). Unless someone was pissed off about a swarming.

    And I mean, if it were a regular occurrence I can't imagine that some of the people that came to mono fights would have kept coming.
    Theophilus
  • LartusLartus Member Posts: 287 ✭✭✭
    I think another rule is if you attack a mono or help attack a mono, the defenders apparently have 14 days to attack you back at anytime. This was from a conversation I had a really long time ago so my memory is fuzzy but the 14 days is something I remember clearly.
    Tyden
  • JulesJules Member Posts: 1,080 ✭✭✭
    edited September 2016
    That sounds like it could be right. The 14 days is pretty surprising, but if you heard it from someone who's immersed in PK rules, it's almost certainly valid. It's surprising because even when I was 9v2 ganked in Vardarian by magick/demonic, the rule of thumb I was given to try to hunt the demonic people (who didn't have a right to defend without repercussion) was just 2 days... regardless of whether they were around or not. In fact, 2 days was the upper limit in case they didn't log in right away, and after that, if they didn't show up, or had spent the whole time idling on guards, well... that's that.

    That said, I've never seen or heard of hunting people down post mono fights other than "they brought an 8 man gank to a 4 man fight. Let's hunt those jerks". It was exceedingly rare, too. Even Ahkan didn't do it!

    If it had been a big thing in general, I don't think very many people would be willing to participate in mono fights. It's very much like raiding/raiding defense pre bounty system if people decide to get really aggressive about it. That might not be all bad, depending on your point of view.

    It would refocus monoliths as fairly exclusive to a few top tier PK-ers, but I'd hope they take that into consideration when they update the mechanics, because some of the current benefits might actually be too good if they're that exclusive. Right now, the assumption is that a lot of the game has some realistic chance at getting monolith benefits, and the intent of the update was going to be "let's push more people to try for them". That's not going to happen if people can expect to end up dealing with all sorts of gank and counter-gank headaches on a regular basis.

    Anyway, I hope we get some really good clarification on PK rules relating to monoliths, along with the update, so that everyone has a really good idea of what they can expect from a mono fight, and what they might be signing up for by going to them. They might like it or not like it, but everyone can make truly informed decisions on whether to go or not.
  • SeptusSeptus Member, Beta Testers Posts: 701 ✭✭✭✭
    My personal rule of thumb is two days. If you're hunting them after that, you don't want the kill enough to have got it earlier.
    Kiskan
  • EoghanEoghan Member, Immortal Posts: 704 mod
    This falls under item 2 in HELP PK:
    2) A real life day is an Imperian Month. Killing after several RL days have passed since the incident which would have caused your character anger is frowned upon. It would need to be a very big reason to still want your enemy dead after several months. Do not be surprised if you are punished by administrators for breaking this obvious rule.

    There is no hard-and-fast number because circumstances and roleplay dictate a bit of gray area there, but you should be ready to defend unreasonably long periods.
    Like what we're doing? Why not take a second to vote? Vote for Imperian at http://www.imperian.com/vote
    KiskanSeptus
  • KiskanKiskan Member Posts: 161 ✭✭
    edited September 2016
    But... But... you are the cookie monster of PK. If they made all of the cookies you ate past the first cookie you ate cause intestinal bleeding, you would eat all of the cookies anyway :(

    Oops! :3 (this was my only char EVERYONE didn't know already, although I think a fair number did)
  • KiskanKiskan Member Posts: 161 ✭✭
    Is that both the monos and the scenario I was in, or are the monos 14 days?
  • EoghanEoghan Member, Immortal Posts: 704 mod
    There is no special rule for length of time after monolith combat.
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  • JulesJules Member Posts: 1,080 ✭✭✭
    Here's one more question I just thought of. Let's say that I am pretty sure a target will just stay logged out, or on a guard stack. Or maybe they were part of a nasty gank, but they're actually more than able to handle themselves alone anyway, and I don't have a prayer of killing them.

    Can I use the assassin system for situations like that? I do get the impression that the assassin system is probably meant to be used for something that was pretty over the top, so I am not asking "can I do this all the time, lol?" but in say, the situation above, could I have done it without getting any admin side-eye?
  • EoghanEoghan Member, Immortal Posts: 704 mod
    edited September 2016
    You can hire an assassin for any valid reason you would have to kill someone as long as it isn't org-related (which should go through bounties).

    By doing so, you give up your right to kill them yourself.
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    Jules
  • IniarIniar AustraliaMember Posts: 3,213 ✭✭✭✭✭
    lol assassin system
    wit beyond measure is a Sidhe's greatest treasure
    Gjarrus
  • JulesJules Member Posts: 1,080 ✭✭✭
    edited September 2016
    I missed the assassin memo :(

    EDIT: got it. I kind of thought we had enough strong PK-ers across the circles (maybe not at the moment, but in general) who wouldn't go "oh, but that's my buddy even if he's in another circle, I can't give him surprise burmese python hugs, sry" (but we don't). So basically the same problem this kind of system seems to always encounter. I really did think we were a bit different there just because I saw some people enthusiastic about hits and didn't seem to particularly care who they were on. So, uh, only take hits out on someone if you know at least one good PK-er hates their guts, or if they are poor, nameless souls.

    EDIT2: so I guess if someone does take a hit on you, it becomes sort of weirdly personal in a way. They're basically saying "I'm not going to pretend this hit doesn't exist, like I do all the time with people I like or don't want to piss off". Suddenly, I hate this system >.>
    Post edited by Jules on
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