Recent Event Opinion

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Comments

  • KhizanKhizan Member Posts: 2,648 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Personally I feel that now would be a good time to do some retconning on the Gods and lock down their beliefs/etc. So many of the Gods have had multiple incarnations that were wildly at odds with each other. Illuminas, for example, ranged between 'Shallah Lite' and "Baar 2: Baar Harder'. Baar ranged from "Burn the heretic! Suffer not the witch to live!" to allowing his priests to convert Bards through the power of mudsex.  

    So even if a new player goes around trying to find out about them, it's a crapshoot as to what they'd actually find. This is why I am so glad that entities just die when their volunteer goes away; at the end, some of the god-shells were weighed down with a decade and more of contradictory incarnations.

    "On the battlefield I am a god. I love war. The steel, the smell, the corpses. I wish there were more. On the first day I drove the Northmen back alone at the ford. Alone! On the second I carried the bridge! Me! Yesterday I climbed the Heroes! I love war! I… I wish it wasn’t over."

    CalaisJules
  • AnetteAnette Member Posts: 789 ✭✭✭
    You know, refine the mechanics of an event like the one they had and they could basically use this idea of "the memories of the gods" to kind of present a sort of clear, canon version of each.  Which they could then put a summary of in the help, and bish bosh away you go.
    image
    Calais
  • CalaisCalais Member Posts: 55 ✭✭✭
    "Baar 2: Baar Harder"
    ^ Best.
    Iniar
  • EsmyrsiaEsmyrsia Member, Immortal Posts: 57 mod
    Ya'll are a really rough crowd to please, sometimes. At the end of the day remember that we're all humans. The people who volunteer hundreds of hours to try to make things that hopefully mildly make people happy, and the people who play it.


    How about we try to make forums focus on some positives? Clearly there's something you like about Imperian, or you'd play Achaea or Aetolia. 


    Goodness!!! HAPPY APRIL FOOLS, SMILE PLEASE, HAVE FUN, PLAY GAMES, BE NERDS, LOVE EACH OTHER.
    Kanthari
  • GurnGurn Member Posts: 787 ✭✭✭✭
    Haha, nice April fools Esmyrsia! Of course we can't smile and have fun and love each other it's Imperian forums good prank you really almost got me there!
    IniarEsmyrsia
  • EsmyrsiaEsmyrsia Member, Immortal Posts: 57 mod
    APRIL FOOLS.



    :((((((((( <3
    CalaisKanthariJulesIniar
  • CalaisCalais Member Posts: 55 ✭✭✭

    Honestly, this is probably at least 90% of the reason I don't typically post on the forums - again, I don't feel like anyone has been particularly negative (constantly asking everyone to be positive is vaguely derailing in my opinion, because if we liked what was happening, we wouldn't have seen fit to make a thread about polite disagreement), everyone has admitted being VERY thankful for the work the administration does, even if we sometimes see a need to disagree with it, and I think it's more than fair to say this thread has run its course. :S Just because we didn't necessarily fawn over an event doesn't mean we hate the admin and everything they do - not by any stretch of the imagination.

    JulesAnette
  • JulesJules Member Posts: 1,080 ✭✭✭
    Jeremy specifically solicited feedback through e-mail when all of the raiding thrash was going on, knowing that many people would be afraid to give feedback publicly (guy knows his players).  If you want to see "negative", there is a reason very, very few people post on the forums at all.  Almost all of the negativity you're ever going to see on one of these forums is players being snarky little shits to other players, not admin.  And that's with admin keeping everyone in check, and outright banning people when needed.  Anyway, I definitely prefer to have at least -some- public discourse, but sending e-mails is by far the more low key way to go.  
    Calais
  • OhmOhm Member Posts: 235 ✭✭✭
    Esmyrsia said:

    Goodness!!! HAPPY APRIL FOOLS, SMILE PLEASE, HAVE FUN, PLAY GAMES, BE NERDS, LOVE EACH OTHER.
    The Demon Empress is possessed by Shallah it seems. 
    image
    CalaisAnetteJulesIniar
  • SeptusSeptus Member, Beta Testers Posts: 735 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The burning question here.

    Which boss is @Jeremy.

    IniarCalais
  • JulesJules Member Posts: 1,080 ✭✭✭
    edited April 2016
    If there is one thing that has been made super clear over the years, it is that we players aren't "the boss".  We are most especially not that.  That's true even here in Imperian.  I sort of get where you are going with this, but players don't have much real power at all, certainly not in comparison to admin.  That's okay, too, within reason, because players can be kind of, um, jerks (especially to each other).   

    And the volunteer situation is complex.  Because admin are so often drawn from the player base, there is a lot of prestige, and a chance to shape the game for people who step into these roles.  My understanding is that it is also basically an internship.  As in, you are interning for an actual job.  At least, that is how Sarapis has explained the process.  At the very least you get the internship experience.  And yes, sometimes (often even) there are also unequivocal atta boys from the players.  Basically, you get to play "the boss".  And nearly all players actually will treat you -exactly- like that, even here where the "godmin" aspect isn't pushed nearly so heavily.  They will often treat you in a way that actually goes well beyond just being respectful, and treat you with actual deference.  And that last part is the part that I feel can be problematic.  That said, since the admin so often do come from the player base, you'd think their reaction to the treatment they generally get on forums would be "wow, these people treat me with kid gloves!  Even the people who don't enthusiastically endorse everything I say and do treat me with kid gloves.  This is incredible".  

    So there is this very odd situation where people have poured a lot of money and time into the game, but part of the content is administered by people who aren't in a paid position, yes...  I usually get very good customer service on "direct" issues like "hey, if I buy this artifact, does it do X?" or "I think this festival item might not be working right".  That's a good start, but yeah, this is also a game we like enough that we care where it's going.  So if I feel something isn't working, I am going to talk about it.  There are only two reasons a player won't talk about it:

    1) I feel other players are going to shame or dismiss me 
    .  
    2) I feel admin is going to shame or dismiss me, or possibly ban me (this is just one reason players can't be considered "the boss")


    Calais didn't like -some- aspects of the event (she wasn't alone).  She made a thread (which I know for a fact that she very much wants to let die now), and (some) people talked about things they didn't like or felt could be improved.  I feel that should be perfectly okay (and it generally is, which is why I like it here).  But right now I am hearing "this is not okay, you guys are such jerks for saying you don't like some stuff".  For some reason it is always the events stuff where this happens.  I don't know why... but it is.  I know some of the guys who do mechanics also volunteer (while working on other games), and I have yet to ever see a thread on an IRE forum going "oh my god, Garryn put his heart and soul into this new knight system and all you can say is that you want it to be -different- in some ways when we do this next time".  I guess it is the expectations, maybe... events are supposed to be perfect or something, while it is fully recognized that mechanics will always have something that can be improved. 
    AnetteCalais
  • SeptusSeptus Member, Beta Testers Posts: 735 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Its not about being the boss in a "you do what I say" sense, its about how a negative boss can make you not care if their lame business sinks or swims whereas a positive one makes you feel invested in their awesome business making bank.
    EsmyrsiaHexe
  • IniarIniar AustraliaMember Posts: 3,213 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited April 2016
    @Esmyrsia

    Don't listen to these haters. I think it is great that your crew have finally taken the step to engage the new content with the central Imperian story; it is bold to try and fold in a new character into the central premise of a very entrenched storyline, but certainly it is the progression of the story I have been waiting for since 2013. Regardless of how people feel about the delivery and the actual content, I think you guys did great - you answered some non-trivial questions, and raised a few more.

    I think it is important to remember that while the Gods have been killed, the majority of the player base do not subscribe to self-determinism and an ongoing healthy dose of mythos will continue to inject relevance to everyone's involvement in this community.

    Nice work.

    image
    wit beyond measure is a Sidhe's greatest treasure
    WysriasKanthariOhm
  • EsmyrsiaEsmyrsia Member, Immortal Posts: 57 mod
    Thank you Iniar! We've also been doing some smaller roleplay with various guilds, so there's always the option of org requests to get something you specifically want.
    IniarKanthari
  • CalaisCalais Member Posts: 55 ✭✭✭

    @Esmyrsia I understand what you're saying, even if I disagree, because I've been trying that theme for a very long time (only over a decade) now without any success. Additionally, with the way I've been brought up, I've never been taught to falsely lead people to believe in head-patting and thumbs up when that's not how you feel. As mentioned, though, I HAVE been taught manners, so while I respect how you believe things should be done, I do feel differently on the matter. As I've mentioned before though, I do rather feel the thread has run its course and the information is out there for the admin to take and do with as they will - other than that, I don't think there's much else for it to do!

    Good luck with your upcoming projects and I'm sure everyone looks forward to seeing what will come next, regardless of how individuals feel about the path there!

    AnetteJules
  • AnetteAnette Member Posts: 789 ✭✭✭
    Jules said:
    Calais didn't like -some- aspects of the event (she wasn't alone).  She made a thread (which I know for a fact that she very much wants to let die now), and (some) people talked about things they didn't like or felt could be improved.  I feel that should be perfectly okay (and it generally is, which is why I like it here).  But right now I am hearing "this is not okay, you guys are such jerks for saying you don't like some stuff".  For some reason it is always the events stuff where this happens.  I don't know why... but it is.  I know some of the guys who do mechanics also volunteer (while working on other games), and I have yet to ever see a thread on an IRE forum going "oh my god, Garryn put his heart and soul into this new knight system and all you can say is that you want it to be -different- in some ways when we do this next time".  I guess it is the expectations, maybe... events are supposed to be perfect or something, while it is fully recognized that mechanics will always have something that can be improved. 
    If I'm unhappy with a game I'm going to talk about it one way or another.  It's generally a courtesy to the developers to try to do so in a constructive way that they can and do see so they can make improvements.

    I think it would be to a games vast detriment to have an environment where players cannot speak their mind about what they do or don't like about the game so long as they are respectful about it.  Moreover, if a game's developers are truly invested in seeing it succeed, they generally want that feedback (and indeed Jeremy and crew modified this event based on the feedback they received)

    But it seems this thread has long since drifted off the topic of any constructive criticism so it's probably outlived its purpose, or at least the purpose for which I was posting in it.
    image
    Jules
  • ElokiaElokia Member, Moderator, Immortal Posts: 137 mod
    Ok, real post!

    I think my post was miss interrupt. And I think Esm put it on the nose. The way you present yourself when disagreeing with an event or a part of the game is HUGE. I do not care if you guys come to the forums to say "I didn't really care for this." But it's how you present yourself. I get you and others feel you are not really attacking the administration, but sometimes your words can come off in such a manner.

    There is a way you can say things, for instance : "OR how the Admin was like this and blah, and yes, I hated that." You are directly putting that onto the admin. Now, Jeremy, Garryn, and I have thick skin, and we are not "Volunteers," we can take a beating such as this. My concerns are with our volunteers who, for instance, might be running their first big event, or might be opening an area they worked really hard on, and all they see is "This is stupid, this is awful, I can't believe you're doing that."

    I'm not saying you can't use the forums to let us know you dislike something. I'm asking we do so in a way that states "Hey, you know, I didn't really agree with this in the event. It just wasn't what I was looking for." Or possibly something along the lines of "This is pretty tedious, can we maybe think of a better way to do this?"

    My post was also, in no way, attacking anyone, in particular, I am just stating facts. It is a fairly thankless job, sometimes, running the games. We understand there are things people are going to hate, and dislike, and I get that. We are trying to find different events that please different parts of the game. Those who really love solid PK events might not always like RP heavy events. Those who really love to bash, might not like events that involve much of anything else.

    I understand people want us to try to make every event to where they want to be invested in it, and I'm sorry that is not always possible. However, we are trying or best to keep things rolling so everyone can be involved in some way.

    Now, for the HELP GODS - we will be updating those, I'm not against that at all. Also, we understand the Gods have died a few years ago, and we might be late to the party, but I believe it's better late than never. We are trying to explain why all these years your characters were told: "This happens because of Gods." But hey, that's clearly not the case now, right? So it may take us a year or more to really hammer out how EVERY ASPECT of this game does not revolve around Gods now, and that, hey, mortals are actually more important that originally led to believe. Sometimes that may require us to dip back towards Gods, and sometimes it will let us move on.

    All in all, we have HUGE plans for the game, and we have the entire year plotted with different events. We try to make sure most events (If not all) have different outcomes, we might not be out front about them all the time, as we still want SOME mystery in the game, but we are NOT trying to shoehorn you guys into one direction or the other, but just like life, you may be given two choices and not always know where it will lead in a few years.

    I think I covered all the bases, and as always, you're more than welcomed to message or e-mail me with any concerns. Most people prefer that way because it's more personal and gives them the chance for a one-on-one without others getting involved. Some prefer to use the forums. Both are fine.

    PS: I have heard the cries for a three sided event, we are plotting, it might not always be the case, but we  did hear you!
    image
    Anette
  • IniarIniar AustraliaMember Posts: 3,213 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Oh man, just realized I wanted to tag @Elokia in my post instead of @Esmyrsia. I hate you two for starting your names with E. :(
    wit beyond measure is a Sidhe's greatest treasure
  • ElokiaElokia Member, Moderator, Immortal Posts: 137 mod
    We also have an @Eoghan who handles a lot of bugs and code. Just to confuse you more! Clearly it's all about them Es!
    image
    Iniar
  • EoghanEoghan Member, Immortal Posts: 801 mod
    edited April 2016
    I like to think we just take frequency analysis REALLY SERIOUSLY. (This is a nerd joke. E is the most commonly used letter in English).

    In all seriousness, this thread seems to have calmed down, and it doesn't look like there are new points to make. I'm going to go ahead and close it so we don't go too far off the rails. We can always make a new thread for any new issues that pop up - they're cheap.
    Like what we're doing? Why not take a second to vote? Vote for Imperian at http://www.imperian.com/vote
    AnetteJules
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