Would you apply to be a Docent?

ElokiaElokia Member, Moderator, Immortal Posts: 137 mod
edited September 2015 in Role Playing and Events
I am highly considering reopening the Docent program. However, before I do, I want to make sure I will for sure get people interested in doing it.

Here are a few things you will need to know before you say "Of course, I'll totally sign up, totally do all these things, and be awesome at it."

- You'll be required to log (and clean the log) of your interactions for you to get paid for them.
- You will not be able to work with Sect mobils, old order mobiles, or guild mobiles (And any learning mobile, as we do not want the mobile to bug out and not let people learn or have access to them.)
- You will not reveal yourself to others that you are indeed a docent, you will not use your docent powers for yourself, or to have a mobile "Support" any player politically (Or any other means.)


If this is something you think You'd be interested in, you can send me an E-mail at Elokia@Imperian.com. If I get enough -serious- inquiries, you'll see call outs for them.
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Would you apply to be a Docent? 21 votes

Yes, That sounds like fun!
85% 18 votes
That's a lot of work, no thank you.
14% 3 votes

Comments

  • KhizanKhizan Member Posts: 2,648 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Nope.

    It's a lot of thankless work for interactions of uncertain quality, and the inability to use guild/sect/order mobiles or support players/ideas means that you can't actually do anything interesting anyways. 

    "On the battlefield I am a god. I love war. The steel, the smell, the corpses. I wish there were more. On the first day I drove the Northmen back alone at the ford. Alone! On the second I carried the bridge! Me! Yesterday I climbed the Heroes! I love war! I… I wish it wasn’t over."

  • JulesJules Member Posts: 1,080 ✭✭✭
    edited September 2015
    Khizan wants to take over all of the stray cat interactions.  "A smelly orange cat stares at you implacably and points his hind end towards a large generator, tail oscillating rapidly".

    (I kid, but animals having more behaviors in general, and possibly even bit parts in certain mini-interactions would actually be really neat - it's weird to me that in the game that has taming, the creatures are almost like stone)
    EllarynthSkye
  • KhizanKhizan Member Posts: 2,648 ✭✭✭✭✭

    ... I could take over cats, this is true.

    Rethinking vote.

    "On the battlefield I am a god. I love war. The steel, the smell, the corpses. I wish there were more. On the first day I drove the Northmen back alone at the ford. Alone! On the second I carried the bridge! Me! Yesterday I climbed the Heroes! I love war! I… I wish it wasn’t over."

    IniarKabaalSkye
  • UltrixUltrix Member Posts: 287 ✭✭✭
    Khizan said:

    ... I could take over cats, this is true.

    Rethinking vote.

    You'd make a good gloomy sable kitten, for sure.
  • KhizanKhizan Member Posts: 2,648 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The major problem with docents is that the interactions generally end up feeling pretty toothless because you're explicitly forbidden from pursuing anything of substance and you can't help out with most of the stuff that people want help with in guilds/sects/cities, so what's the point really? Wooo, you can become the bartender? 

    Docents are a micro-RP thing in a macro-RP game.

    "On the battlefield I am a god. I love war. The steel, the smell, the corpses. I wish there were more. On the first day I drove the Northmen back alone at the ford. Alone! On the second I carried the bridge! Me! Yesterday I climbed the Heroes! I love war! I… I wish it wasn’t over."

  • MenochMenoch Raleigh, NC, USAMember Posts: 594 ✭✭✭
    I think a better point is: who does this hurt?

    A lot of people log in expressly for the hope of seeing the average of only ~20 people online, and getting some one on one time with that faceless guard or that bartender. ...or anything that isn't one sided PK or mind numbing bashing.

    @Khizan's disparagement aside, (mmm vocal minorities (that never get called for language rules like the rest of the forums)), is creating one off RP memories really a detraction?

    I humbly submit my opinion that some lightweight interaction (and essentially meaningless to the overall wandering RP storyline) could only benefit game activity levels. Especially if said RP has no bearing on the 'main' story arc, and is by definition harmless.

    It's whatever though, I have no horse in this race. I just check forums occasionally from nostalgia and boredom.

    /$.02, carry on.
  • KhizanKhizan Member Posts: 2,648 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 2015

    I really think that if the docent program is going to really accomplish anything, it's going to have to be set up in a way that lets it address game issues somehow. Bartender conversation is nice and all, but I think that ends up appealing to a very limited subset of players and they're primarily the ones who are going to want to be docents in the first place.

    Implementing some kind of system that lets them address any kind of matter of substance would make the interactions SO much more meaningful. For a recent example, Antioch tried to ally with the Horde recently. Guess how many mobs in Antioch's cities or townes ventured an opinion on this subject? Absolutely none of them. I made a big loud public post about "screw anti-magick it's pointless and we no longer care about it" and none of them said a word about a Mukhtar basically saying "Antioch's thing? Screw it don't care, we use magick now." That's the kind of thing that makes the world feel dead and non-reactive. There's no amount of casual mob-chat that can fix that when the mobiles aren't going to be able to take a side on anything of substance.

    Honestly, I think it's okay for mobiles to take sides under docent command, as long as we have some kind of balance. Janus/Baar telling us how things were going to be via Aranel/Bina was always dumb, but it was dumb largely because it was so obviously a God stepping into to lay down the law that everybody treated it that way. The city ignored the Duke and listened to the Librarian, because it was obvious that she was speaking ex cathedra

    The problem with that, though, isn't that the mobiles took a side. The problem is that the mobiles took exactly one side and the entire city sprinted down a chain of logic that went like "A mobile is talking -> A god has to animate the mobile to make it talk -> Janus is the god of Kinsarmar -> Janus is talking to us -> we have to obey!".

    Fixing that problem is easy. All you have to do is represent multiple sides. El Jazira favours alliance with the Horde, Anhir is opposed, Okabarish is cautious but optimistic, Arkaskarr thinks it's an excellent way to get inside Urzog's defenses so we can blow everything up. City election going on? Different people support different candidates. Ultrix is stable and calm and will be good for business, Septus will show that Antioch is to be taken seriously, Kristos is young and energetic and that's what we need, etc. City mobiles are participating in city events and it creates a sense of activity and liveliness in the world without giving one side the imprimatur of the Garden.

    This is the kind of things that docents should do, because this would be awesome. 

    "On the battlefield I am a god. I love war. The steel, the smell, the corpses. I wish there were more. On the first day I drove the Northmen back alone at the ford. Alone! On the second I carried the bridge! Me! Yesterday I climbed the Heroes! I love war! I… I wish it wasn’t over."

    Dicene
  • KhizanKhizan Member Posts: 2,648 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 2015
    Menoch said:
    I think a better point is: who does this hurt?

    Nobody. It doesn't hurt anybody, and that's why I don't object to putting it back in. 

    However, I also believe that the answer to "Who does it help?" is "almost nobody" because docents who can't take action in any kind of matter of substance don't actually make the world feel more alive and it'll be doomed to failure due to a lack of interest and activity, much like it was the last time they ran a docent system. There aren't enough people hoping for faceless 1 on 1 guard RP to keep people in the system interested, especially because the burden of the interaction often falls entirely on the docent in the sense that they have to come up with a reason and instigate it and generally run the show.

    Personally, I think that any kind of successful docent system is going to have to have some punch to it. Don't try to start random RP conversations, do things that demand one. Instead of having docents go do bartender chat, let them start up small storylines with actual implications in the game. Make up a handful of small stories and then worry about tying them together later. Maybe some Anhiran merchant comes to us complaining about bandits attacking his wagons, something that we've pretty much got to look into and follow up on. Maybe, independently, some genius in Stavenn pitches an idea to hire deniable bandits to attack Antiochian aligned merchants and they enter negotiations. Depending on how things work out, maybe these two stories tie up later. Maybe they're completely unrelated events and Stavenn is betrayed by their potential hirelings while our merchants are set upon by completely unrelated ordinary highwaymen. Doesn't matter. A mage in Tayar plans a ritual while a group of Idras plan an attack. Who wins? Who knows? Who cares? The point is just to be doing something. Stir up some activity. Start up a dozen small ongoing things then smash them together when things get boring.

    "On the battlefield I am a god. I love war. The steel, the smell, the corpses. I wish there were more. On the first day I drove the Northmen back alone at the ford. Alone! On the second I carried the bridge! Me! Yesterday I climbed the Heroes! I love war! I… I wish it wasn’t over."

    AilishDreacor
  • IniarIniar AustraliaMember Posts: 3,213 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 2015
    Also, not all events have to start -> conclude. Little things that happen, a long-term NPC in Khandava moves to Ssyra, a meteor falls into the middle of Caanae, a librarian turns up dead in the streets of Antioch. You don't need to have the whole story sculpted out; just have a hook that will make people ask questions and you can pick it up at another time. You can lay out all these asynchronous hooks now and leave them there until someone with an interest picks them up; you don't have to return to the response straight away but the avenues are now open. Even if you ignore the people who pick up hook 3,4,5 now, and just run with two, eventually someone else will pick up those hooks again by asking the right questions - you just need to successfully run a few mini-spontaneous, purpose-driven adventures... People will start to talk and your success will breed further curiosity. And that is what you want - people who become genuinely interested in the content of the game rather than another bashing area, another conflict mechanism. Make it organic, make it live, make it thrive. Your players are your greatest asset only if they have something to talk about. You want them asking questions, poking and prodding things... but they'll only do it if they know sometimes something pokes back.

    Change a few things.

    Wait for a reaction.

    Go from there.

    It's definitely not rocket science.
    wit beyond measure is a Sidhe's greatest treasure
    Menoch
  • MenochMenoch Raleigh, NC, USAMember Posts: 594 ✭✭✭
    edited September 2015
    That's great or whatever, but it isn't like the appeal here is to millions of people. Discounting the ones not on who, I very, very rarely see more than 40 people online at peak hours via the who list from the browser extension.

    I get your point, I really do. Having some amount of purpose, even of the subplot variety, would be nice. But for some mysterious reason, there's a level of bureaucratic red-tape involved with anything even remotely resembling an active storyline. I think that maintaining the status quo or letting it remain solely in admin/dev control, is fine and you can still get a couple of those people that log in looking for something to do other than afk or totally-not-really-autobashing-I-swear-gaiz to find that outlet.

    I also get your other point, WRT "Well it has to be a high level celani in charge of this mob and thus this opinion is reflective of the desires of the pantheon of our org(s)". Doesn't having one off meaningless RP in the hands of randoms pretty much entirely counter that perspective, as opposed to reinforcing it? For that matter, wouldn't success at this marginal level allow for an easier approach to permanency with docent inspired/controlled story arcs?


    ETA: I was more responding to Khizan than Iniar, who apparently is better focused than me as evidenced by his ninja post, while I was busy in another tab.
    Post edited by Menoch on
  • ElokiaElokia Member, Moderator, Immortal Posts: 137 mod
    Khizan said:

    Nope.

    It's a lot of thankless work for interactions of uncertain quality, and the inability to use guild/sect/order mobiles or support players/ideas means that you can't actually do anything interesting anyways. 



    The sect mobiles and guild mobiles could be considered - however, there would still be rules. Such as, if you're part of Conquest, don't go mobposing a mob from a Demonic sect and be out of character. It is something I would tread very lightly on, especially if said sect holds an Entity. However, it is one thing I may consider allowing in special circumstances. 
    image
  • ElokiaElokia Member, Moderator, Immortal Posts: 137 mod
    I will also make a few notes on things that were presented.

    Unfortunately, the storyline of the game is not an easy task to always keep moving. There are things that have to be done to keep the game maintained, and there are things we try to get done to keep the game running with a story, RP, and the likes. We are a bit on the small side of our Admin, and as it is a volunteer ran Administration, life generally gets the better hand over the RP storyline of the game. I am not saying we should allow this, I'm saying it is exceptionally difficult.

    With that said. If I have active docent willing to put some work in for credits to do some RP and to see what it is like behind the scenes, (This means, you want to do a small scale world wide event? Totally for that, there is a little work involved and I'm more than happy to allow Docents to do things like this). If you want to do RP with city mobiles that may change how the city does things? That's fine, but you're treading on dangerous waters and may be looked into, because if you have a bone to pick with Person1 and you use Mob1 to run them out of town because -you- do not like them, that's not a good thing. If you use Mob1 to support Person2 in an election and smear the name of another participant, I'm going to be cross with you. You have to tread carefully with mobiles. I do not mind them taking a bigger step in the game, but we still need to not use them as a way to destroy people, as some of our players love to do. You will have to remember, they are not an extension of you, they have their own opinion, you'll have to read logs on that mobile, does this mobile like things this way? If they change their mind, why would they?

    As someone who has done a lot of RP storylines, interactions, and the likes, it is a tough job at times, but it is also very rewarding when the player base accepts your RP, you feel quite good about it. Plus, I'm willing to give you credits for it.

    I'll open up the applications within the next few days, and if I get enough people asking, I'll hire. Then we can all sit down and have a campfire and talk about what we want to see done, and how we want to go about it.
    image
    Kristos
  • IyrandarIyrandar ImperianMember Posts: 11
    This sounds interesting and appealing... I know there's great RP happening from time to time, but only between those that are involved in the interaction. If only the world benefited more from inspiring Role-play.
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