Classleads 2014/2015

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  • IniarIniar AustraliaMember Posts: 3,213 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Very excited for #141 and #71.
    wit beyond measure is a Sidhe's greatest treasure
    RaziyaSarrius
  • OystirOystir Member Posts: 388 ✭✭✭
    edited December 2014
    @Sarrius

    Wardancers are going to get attention after the smithing change just like every other class. If it were me I'd be much more inclined to wait and smile and get Garryn's full attention on making changes, rather than throw an intensive chore among a pile of other changes for everyone else.


     You say, "This is much harder than just being a normal person."
  • MathiausMathiaus PennsylvaniaMember Posts: 1,008 ✭✭✭✭
    4 is my favorite. MY. FAVORITE.
    image
    Celestine
  • IniarIniar AustraliaMember Posts: 3,213 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited April 2015

    20:42:57.514   Septus waves his palm in your direction, and you can only watch as your surroundings dissolve and fade from existence.
    20:42:57.516   Time.
    20:42:57.516   There are no obvious exits.
    20:42:57.518   512[100] 496[96] -b db 0 0 54.17 0   (  0) (burn): [T] 1
    20:42:57.713   [] Equilibrium [] 
    20:42:57.713   [] Equilibrium [] 
    20:42:57.713   [] Equilibrium [] 
    20:42:57.715   512[100] 496[96] eb db 0 0 54.17 0   (  0) (burn): [T] 1
    20:42:57.936   [QUEUE]: touch chameleon Baasche||treant entangle Septus.
    20:42:57.942   +(chameleon).
    20:42:57.944   [[ Your treant is not here. ]]
    20:42:57.945   512[100] 496[96] eb db 0 0 54.17 0   (  0) (burn): [T] 1
    20:42:58.729   +16 (3.1%)
    20:42:58.731   512[100] 512[100] eb db 0 0 54.17 0  (  0) (burn): [T] 1
    20:42:59.037   512[100] 509[99] eb db 0 0 54.17 0   (  0) (burn): [T] 1
    20:43:01.595   +2 (0.4%)
    20:43:01.597   512[100] 512[100] eb db 0 0 54.17 0  (  0) (burn): [T] 1rt banished
    20:43:03.132   (Ring): You say, "Banished."
    20:43:03.134   512[100] 512[100] eb db 0 0 54.17 0  (  0) (burn): [T] 1
    20:43:03.851   512[100] 509[99] eb db 0 0 54.17 0   (  0) (burn): [T] 1
    20:43:05.589   (Ring): Iluv says, "Septus - 598h [98% m:89%]."
    20:43:05.592   512[100] 509[99] eb db 0 0 54.17 0   (  0) (burn): [T] 1
    20:43:06.203   (Ring): Iluv says, "[BATS]: Septus has prismatic barrier!"
    20:43:06.206   512[100] 509[99] eb db 0 0 54.17 0   (  0) (burn): [T] 1
    20:43:06.658   +2 (0.4%)
    20:43:06.659   512[100] 512[100] eb db 0 0 54.17 0  (  0) (burn): [T] 1
    20:43:07.643   You heave a sigh of relief as you are returned to reality.
    20:43:07.645   A slave pen.
    20:43:07.647   Seeming to bark incessantly, an unkempt bazwolf pup is here. A Kaark'Dichraak slaver looks over his 
    20:43:07.647   stock here. A rattling sound draws attention to a timber rattlesnake coiled conspicuously upon the 
    20:43:07.647   ground here. A massive, black iced eagle is perched quietly in the shadows. A treant meanders 
    20:43:07.647   aimlessly here, weeping tears of blood. The ever-shifting visage of Septus, Aspect of Moradeim, is 
    20:43:07.647   here. Iluv Bialystone, the Incinerator is here, flames dancing across his flesh. He wields a 
    20:43:07.647   Shadowfang dirk in his left hand and a mithril shield in his right. Sir Bronstal In'aksu, Ice Yeti 
    20:43:07.647   is here, covered in a thin sheen of ice. He wields a shining longsword in his left hand and an ice-
    20:43:07.647   blackened shield in his right. Twisted thorns gleaming dangerously, thick blackvines cover the 
    20:43:07.647   ground. This location is wrapped in a shimmering protective sphere. 
    20:43:07.650   You see a single exit leading north (open door).
    20:43:07.651   512[100] 512[100] eb db 0 0 54.17 0  (  0) (burn): [T] 1touch chameleon Dreacor||


    21:01:49.903   Report #67
    21:01:49.905   ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    21:01:49.907   Submitted by: Caitryn        Status      : Rejected                 
    21:01:49.909   Skillset    : Runelore       Skillname   : New
    21:01:49.911   ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    21:01:49.913   Problem:
    21:01:49.914   An alternate solution for Banish (Kaido) to be embedded in a cross-circle skillset, Runelore:- While 
    21:01:49.914   the monk has not seen a large resurgence, access to Banish (Kaido) is an extremely strong mechanic 
    21:01:49.914   for which there is only one active counter, requiring secondary assistance. While the opportunity 
    21:01:49.914   cost (41 Kai) is significantly greater than the similar mechanic Danaeus, its active counter is 
    21:01:49.914   reliant on the presence of an Assassin or Renegade on the team. In a larger population, this is not 
    21:01:49.914   a big issue, but given that teams can consist of 2 to 3 players, lack of access to a capable 
    21:01:49.914   assassin or renegade at any given time can be an immutable decisive factor against a monk-fielding 
    21:01:49.914   team. Given that only Magick and Demonic face this dilemma, a shared skillset to slightly widen the 
    21:01:49.914   field of options for these teams is preferred - hence the choice of Runelore.
    21:01:49.917   ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    21:01:49.918   Solution #1:
    21:01:49.919   Change the ground effect of Sleizak to a targetted ground sketch attempting to draw out the banished 
    21:01:49.919   individual.
    21:01:49.921   Solution #2:
    21:01:49.923   As per solution #1, with the proviso of decreasing the cost of Banish (Kaido) to 30 kai.
    21:01:49.924   Solution #3:
    21:01:49.924   Create a new Tattoo in the Tattoo skillset, called 'Sprite', allowing the user to cast a channeled 
    21:01:49.924   rescue action against the banished individual.
    21:01:49.926   ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    21:01:49.927   Decision:
    21:01:49.927   I don't see any need for additional counters to Banish.
    21:01:52.258   ------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    20:43:58.739   Moving along the trade route. (road).
    20:43:58.741   The stars twinkle in the clear night sky. A Kaark'Dichraak slaver looks over his stock here. A 
    20:43:58.741   Kaark'Dichraak trader is here going over a few reports. Septus is sitting on the ground. Sir 
    20:43:58.741   Bronstal In'aksu, Ice Yeti is here, covered in a thin sheen of ice. He wields a shining longsword in 
    20:43:58.741   his left hand and an ice-blackened shield in his right. Iluv Bialystone, the Incinerator is here, 
    20:43:58.741   flames dancing across his flesh. He wields a Shadowfang dirk in his left hand and a mithril shield 
    20:43:58.741   in his right. Twisted thorns gleaming dangerously, thick blackvines cover the ground. 
    20:43:58.744   You see exits leading northeast and southwest.
    20:43:58.746   512[100] 512[100] eb db 0 0 54.17 0  (  0) (burn): [T] 1
    20:43:59.042   (Septus) nerveburned by Iluv.
    20:43:59.048   (Septus) +burning nerves.
    20:43:59.050   512[100] 512[100] eb db 0 0 54.17 0  (  0) (burn): [T] 1
    20:43:59.056   512[100] 509[99] eb db 0 0 54.17 0   (  0) (burn): [T] 1
    20:43:59.961   Septus slowly raises his head and you see his eyes glowing bright white.
    20:43:59.961   rt Deliverance!|rt Deliverance!|rt Don't Hit Septus|
    20:43:59.964   512[100] 509[99] eb db 0 0 54.17 0  (burn): [T] 1devastate  ciguatoxin|torment  with entropy|
    20:44:00.276   (Ring): You say, "Deliverance!"
    20:44:00.279   (Ring): You say, "Deliverance!"
    20:44:00.281   (Ring): You say, "Don't Hit Septus."
    20:44:00.283   512[100] 509[99] eb db 0 0 54.17 0  (burn): [T] 1
    20:44:00.288   (Ring): Iluv says, "Target: Nothing."
    20:44:00.291   512[100] 509[99] eb db 0 0 54.17 0  (burn): [T] 1
    20:44:00.576   Septus turns to face Bronstal, eyes glowing ominously. Two radiant arcs of white lightning dart 
    20:44:00.576   forth from them, enveloping Bronstal who screams and slowly dies as he is burned alive.
    20:44:00.580   Septus has slain Bronstal.
    20:44:00.580   Cleared all variables on Bronstal.
    20:44:00.580   touch chameleon Pellerin||g body|g body|g body|g body|g body|g body|g body|g body|g body|g body|g 
    20:44:00.580   body|g body|g body|g body|g body|g body|queue eqbal g body|g body|g body|g body|
    20:44:00.585   512[100] 509[99] eb db 0 0 54.17 0  (burn): [T] 1
    20:44:00.791   How do you wish to torment your victim?
    20:44:00.793   512[100] 509[99] eb db 0 0 54.17 0  (burn): [T] 1
    20:44:00.799   (Ring): Iluv says, "[BATS]: Bronstal has been killed!"
    20:44:00.801   512[100] 509[99] eb db 0 0 54.17 0  (burn): [T] 1
    20:44:00.807   Iluv picks up the corpse of Bronstal.
    20:44:00.808   512[100] 509[99] eb db 0 0 54.17 0  (burn): [T] 1
    20:44:01.014   +(chameleon).
    20:44:01.015   I see no "body" to take.
    20:44:01.017   I see no "body" to take.
    20:44:01.018   I see no "body" to take.
    20:44:01.020   I see no "body" to take.
    20:44:01.022   I see no "body" to take.
    20:44:01.023   I see no "body" to take.
    20:44:01.025   I see no "body" to take.
    20:44:01.027   I see no "body" to take.
    20:44:01.028   I see no "body" to take.
    20:44:01.029   I see no "body" to take.
    20:44:01.031   I see no "body" to take.
    20:44:01.032   I see no "body" to take.
    20:44:01.033   I see no "body" to take.
    20:44:01.034   I see no "body" to take.
    20:44:01.034   I see no "body" to take.
    20:44:01.036   I see no "body" to take.
    20:44:01.039   [QUEUE]: g body.
    20:44:01.040   I see no "body" to take.
    20:44:01.042   I see no "body" to take.
    20:44:01.043   I see no "body" to take.
    20:44:01.044   I see no "body" to take.
    20:44:01.046   512[100] 509[99] eb db 0 0 54.17 0  (burn): [T] 1
    20:44:01.050   Autocuring: smoke pipe with linseed
    20:44:01.051   You take a long drag off your pipe, filling your lungs with linseed smoke.
    20:44:01.052   512[100] 509[99] eb db 0 0 54.17 0  (burn): [T] 1
    20:44:02.216   (Iluv) +[rebounding].
    20:44:02.217   512[100] 509[99] eb db 0 0 54.17 0  (burn): [T] 1
    20:44:02.727   +2 (0.4%)
    20:44:02.729   512[100] 512[100] eb db 0 0 54.17 0 (burn): [T] 1ql
    20:44:03.448   Bluish rays peak across the horizon, filling the early morning sky with their peaceful light.
    20:44:03.450   512[100] 512[100] eb db 0 0 54.17 0 (burn): [T] 1
    20:44:03.758   Moving along the trade route. (road).
    20:44:03.760   The bright sun shines down, blanketing you with its life-giving warmth. Gore is splattered about, a 
    20:44:03.760   display of Septus's cruel handiwork. A Kaark'Dichraak slaver looks over his stock here. A 
    20:44:03.760   Kaark'Dichraak trader is here going over a few reports. Septus, surrounded by a glowing white nimbus 
    20:44:03.760   is sitting on the ground. Iluv Bialystone, the Incinerator is here, flames dancing across his flesh. 
    20:44:03.760   He wields a Shadowfang dirk in his left hand and a mithril shield in his right. Twisted thorns 
    20:44:03.760   gleaming dangerously, thick blackvines cover the ground. 
    20:44:03.760   rt Deliverance!|rt Deliverance!|rt Don't Hit Septus|
    20:44:03.763   You see exits leading northeast and southwest.
    20:44:03.766   512[100] 512[100] eb db 0 0 54.17 0 (burn): [T] 1
    20:44:03.967   512[100] 509[99] eb db 0 0 54.17 0  (burn): [T] 1
    20:44:04.184   (Ring): You say, "Deliverance!"
    20:44:04.187   (Ring): You say, "Deliverance!"
    20:44:04.189   (Ring): You say, "Don't Hit Septus."
    20:44:04.191   512[100] 509[99] eb db 0 0 54.17 0  (burn): [T] 1
    20:44:04.468   +(smoke).
    20:44:04.469   512[100] 509[99] eb db 0 0 54.17 0  (burn): [T] 1
    20:44:05.285   (Ring): Bronstal says, "Damn it."
    20:44:05.288   512[100] 509[99] eb db 0 0 54.17 0  (burn): [T] 1
    20:44:06.626   Septus giggles happily.
    20:44:06.629   512[100] 509[99] eb db 0 0 54.17 0  (burn): [T] 1say cheese
    20:44:06.800   say  (In quiet undertones) cheese|
    20:44:06.929   +(anti-weapon field).
    20:44:06.930   512[100] 509[99] eb db 0 0 54.17 0  (burn): [T] 1
    20:44:07.140   Septus sipped.
    20:44:07.142   512[100] 509[99] eb db 0 0 54.17 0  (burn): [T] 1
    20:44:07.149   Septus ate toadstool.
    20:44:07.150   512[100] 509[99] eb db 0 0 54.17 0  (burn): [T] 1
    20:44:07.156   (Septus) -prone.
    20:44:07.156   512[100] 509[99] eb db 0 0 54.17 0  (burn): [T] 1
    20:44:07.160   In quiet undertones, you say, "Cheese."
    20:44:07.161   512[100] 509[99] eb db 0 0 54.17 0  (burn): [T] 1
    20:44:07.443   Septus ate nightshade.
    20:44:07.446   512[100] 509[99] eb db 0 0 54.17 0  (burn): [T] 1
    20:44:07.745   Septus smoked linseed.
    20:44:07.748   512[100] 509[99] eb db 0 0 54.17 0  (burn): [T] 1touch chameleon Vega||
    20:44:07.962   As Septus leaves the room, the blackvines on the ground lash out after him, entangling him and 
    20:44:07.962   piercing his skin painfully.
    20:44:07.966   (Septus) flips SOUTHWEST.
    20:44:07.969   [southwest - Septus (1)]
    20:44:07.969   512[100] 509[99] eb db 0 0 54.17 0  (burn): [T] 1


    21:02:30.653   Report #94
    21:02:30.655   ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    21:02:30.658   Submitted by: Morgoth        Status      : Rejected                 
    21:02:30.659   Skillset    : Kaido          Skillname   : Deliverance
    21:02:30.661   ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    21:02:30.662   Problem:
    21:02:30.663   This isn't so much a problem as a fun tweak to an interesting skill. At the moment, Deliverance acts 
    21:02:30.663   as a slightly more potent version of a prismatic barrier, time limited to 30 seconds. One of the 
    21:02:30.663   nice things about certain instantkills is that they go through prismatic barrier, so the defender 
    21:02:30.663   has to make a time-dependent decision - stall them now, or wait as long as possible (10s)? 
    21:02:30.663   Unfortunately, there is no such decision element for Deliverance. It is simply a sit and wait 
    21:02:30.663   situation.
    21:02:30.665   ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    21:02:30.666   Solution #1:
    21:02:30.667   Allow instant kills to kill the users of Deliverance - however, it also triggers the deliverance 
    21:02:30.667   effect, so both monk and killer die. This seems like an awesome game of chicken.
    21:02:30.668   Solution #2:
    21:02:30.669   As per solution #1, but reducing the cost of Kai Deliverance from 81 Kai to 65 Kai.
    21:02:30.670   Solution #3:
    21:02:30.671   ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    21:02:30.672   Decision:
    21:02:30.673   I do not think that Deliverance is in need of a change like this.
    21:02:30.674   ------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    I feel like problems could have been avoided. Oh well. 3 v 1, maximum cheese turned up and still not much to be done here. We left the field to the sole victor. Thank you monks.
    wit beyond measure is a Sidhe's greatest treasure
  • RahielRahiel Member Posts: 51 ✭✭
    edited April 2015
    Avoiding deliverance is pretty easy in nearly every game that it exists in, including Imperian.

    When coming back from Banish, people should have this highlighted: Septus, surrounded by a glowing white nimbus is sitting on the ground.

    It also drains kai very, very quickly so it's not equiv. to Barrier at all, because it will drop after a quick period of time after his kai runs out.

    Simply put, you got tricked by Septus. That doesn't mean it's broken, you just know what to expect next time.

    IniarWysrias
  • MathiausMathiaus PennsylvaniaMember Posts: 1,008 ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 2015
    Oh yeah, when I strum lyre I expect to kill everyone who hits my barrier.

    With his logic, I expect to have anyone who spams my prismatic barrier with five or more hits to DIE INSTANTLY. (AM and magic ks entire party would vanish in a heart beat.)
    image
    Rahiel
  • RahielRahiel Member Posts: 51 ✭✭
    Iniar said:

    You missed the point. What am I supposed to do when he's sitting in deliverance? Twiddle my thumbs. There's no counter. Even prismatic pre-beta had a counter. Even numbness has a break-point of 167% max hp. Even Redemption has a point of failure where it won't fire. Deliverance? Just sit there and wait, Iniar. Please, take a seat.


    I don't die to deliverance except when it lags, or I get unlucky with timing, that's just a roll of the dice.

    Also, because it may not be clear, there are two separate issues: (1) Banish having no counter except a profession-locked one, and (2) Deliverance having no counter except twiddling thumbs.
    One, if he's using Deliverance, he's not curing. Passives still hit him and afflict him and passives don't trigger deliverance, only active attacks.

    Second, you actually have retaliation in the form of ranged attacks. Archery, throw star, ranged doppleganger. None of those trigger deliverance when out of the room. You have plenty of options to counter it, especially since as I pointed out: he can't cure while Deliverance is up or it will drop. So yes, it has not only just a counter, but multiple. It just requires more than the entire group smashing a macro.

    As for Banish, I'm not one-hundred percent on the details, but didn't it get a downgrade here not too long ago? Some form of cooldown to where only one person will generally get banished and then it can't be used for awhile? I can't check as I'm at work, but that just means it has a strong group function, but isn't necessarily overpowered. Not to mention, if your group is coordinated, Banish really shouldn't stop you much. However, if there's a situation where one competent person is leading a herd of people that aren't known for combat, it can be fairly good due to its mechanic.

    To summarize: just because something is powerful and beats you does not automatically mean it is overpowered. I can state straight away that if you wanted to counter Septus as a Monk, you had options and I outlined them for you.


    Wysrias
  • IniarIniar AustraliaMember Posts: 3,213 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited April 2015
    This post removed. The gist of it was that Iniar disagrees and feels Rahiel's opinion is short-sighted. -- Eoghan
    Post edited by Eoghan on
    wit beyond measure is a Sidhe's greatest treasure
    WysriasRahielSeraphyneEldreth
  • RahielRahiel Member Posts: 51 ✭✭
    edited April 2015
    I gave you solutions to easily counter Deliverance, which is what you asked for. You shouldn't get upset when someone provides you a reasonable counter that doesn't fit your ranting narrative. You got beat because you got tricked and outplayed, it had nothing to do with Deliverance being overpowered. This might surprise you, but no one in this game in infallible.

    Soulspear, Archery, Star Tarot, Doppleganger, every single form of passive that Demonic has that afflicts, Sunder (that would force Septus to drop it or get instagibbed). You have options. The fact that Deliverance does not protect Septus from ranged makes it nothing like barrier, which provides protection from such.

    Edit: In any event, this is all I'm saying on the subject. It has very valid counters. If you want to forum crusade on some perceived notion that demonic is powerless to stop it, be my guest. The level of passive aggression on this forum is hilarious though.

    Post edited by Rahiel on
    Wysrias
  • KabaalKabaal Member Posts: 303 ✭✭✭
    edited April 2015
    I like how Septus "tricked" them by Iluv and Iniar not hitting it and only the blind person not reacting in time. GJ O'Doyle. E: (O'DOYLE RULES)

    I also like how Banish is okay because the group you are bringing to kill the one monk should be the counter.

    IniarDicene
  • WysriasWysrias Member Posts: 410 ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 2015
    I remember when Danaeus was nerfed from 6 seconds to 4 seconds, because despite the fact that it exists on a 40s cooldown and has a counter available to every single profession in the game, it was deemed too powerful of a team disruption tool.

    Meanwhile, banish is a 10 second disrupt that can only be countered by a profession that is explicitly a poor choice for team combat. Deliverance is also pretty hilarious if you compare it to, say, rebounding: I can watch most of AM smack themselves by queuing up attacks before rebounding comes up. Imagine if hitting rebounding also outright killed you!

    I find it a bit ironic that you can claim these strategies are perfectly fine, but can turn around and state that Cleric above all other professions is at a distinct disadvantage against an Assassin - I have to assume it's due to a limited frame of reference. Clearly, playing against the mechanic likely biases us against it, but it's equally disingenuous to claim that it's a case of being "tricked and outplayed". It's a "trick" that has existed and been complained about for literally a decade now, yet somehow has eluded attempts to patch it up. Perhaps it's a case of simply not being vocal against monks because few people are willing to cheese it to this extent; with the return of Rasca's shenanigans and continuation of Septus' attempts at poking the bee hive of Stavenn, we'll see if this remains the case.


    IniarEldreth
  • CassiusCassius Member, Beta Testers Posts: 593 ✭✭✭
    edited April 2015
    I don't really have a lot to add to this other than:  Just because something is or isn't overpowered, does NOT make it a good mechanic.
    WysriasIniarDicene
  • RahielRahiel Member Posts: 51 ✭✭
    edited April 2015
    Wysrias said:

    I remember when Danaeus was nerfed from 6 seconds to 4 seconds, because despite the fact that it exists on a 40s cooldown and has a counter available to every single profession in the game, it was deemed too powerful of a team disruption tool.

    Meanwhile, banish is a 10 second disrupt that can only be countered by a profession that is explicitly a poor choice for team combat. Deliverance is also pretty hilarious if you compare it to, say, rebounding: I can watch most of AM smack themselves by queuing up attacks before rebounding comes up. Imagine if hitting rebounding also outright killed you!

    I find it a bit ironic that you can claim these strategies are perfectly fine, but can turn around and state that Cleric above all other professions is at a distinct disadvantage against an Assassin - I have to assume it's due to a limited frame of reference. Clearly, playing against the mechanic likely biases us against it, but it's equally disingenuous to claim that it's a case of being "tricked and outplayed". It's a "trick" that has existed and been complained about for literally a decade now, yet somehow has eluded attempts to patch it up. Perhaps it's a case of simply not being vocal against monks because few people are willing to cheese it to this extent; with the return of Rasca's shenanigans and continuation of Septus' attempts at poking the bee hive of Stavenn, we'll see if this remains the case.

    It might be a limited frame of reference in regards to Cleric since Cleric functions somewhat differently by comparison to counterparts elsewhere, like with Kanai and their offensive kai (similar to Shindo) equiv. However, Deliverance's mechanics are a constant across IRE in all forms. I know how to counter it because I've fought against it for ages and I've also used it myself. It's actually weaker here because you can't prep it beforehand and then walk into a room for it to then activate. It was actually even stronger in Aetolia because it would proc even on ranged attacks (it doesn't any longer). You have plenty of warning here both with the incoming message, room message, and so forth. It's really, really easy to avoid and then you can just start ranging them because they can't do anything about the range unless they want to drop the Deliverance.

    Edit: Worth mentioning that Cleric is under a disadvantage against Assassin by, ironically, Ahkan's own previous arguments because of the fact that Assassin has such high affliction potential and passive healing is completely random in what it heals. It's less likely that something critical like asthma or impatience will get healed and something like Dizziness will get healed in its place.

    As for Banish, I'll test it when I get home. Honestly, I've always been of the opinion that if a mechanic annoys/challenges you, that doesn't mean it's a bad mechanic. It's working as intended. The fact also remains that a counter to Banish actually exists here, whereas that isn't the case anywhere else either. (Edit: Had to remove this because Iluv was apparently in Summoner, just wielding a dirk for... some reason. Still could've ranged Septus though) I think saying that Assassin is bad for groups is fairly disingenuous. You're not likely to get kills with it, no, but it's a prime support class. I mean, there are times when I leave the room during a group fight as a Ranger even when I'm not being focused because I know how effective barbed w/noctec is at hindering and how good net arrows are at stopping Raksha, as an example. Not every class needs to have high alpha damage to be good at groups. Does AM have an advantage in that regard? Yeah. I won't refute that. However, I wouldn't ever say that Assassin/Renegade is bad in groups.
  • WysriasWysrias Member Posts: 410 ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 2015
    That's the problem though - we DO need 'alpha damage'. This has been proven time and time again when we try to set up affliction kills and lose a person per round due to sheer damage output. In addition, assassin has the lowest damage mitigation across demonic, with weaving providing only a 5% resistance, for a class that gets no bonus to constitution, no health bonus, no sip bonus, no active heal. Assassins drop like flies in groups. If you disagree, feel free to give the profession a try, and you'll see why only a handful of players elect to use it.

    Rebounding is really really easy to avoid. People still hit it. Simple mechanics such as "don't hit this target" usually have simple penalties, like equilibrium loss or taking an attack's worth of damage. Not death.

    The thing is, we've all fought against banish and deliverance too. We are intimately familiar with it, as we've all died to it more times than we'd probably care to admit. The major difference here versus other IRE games is that, in every other IRE game where deliverance is a mechanic, it's available to all factions. Aetolia and Achaea both have monks present on every side. Here, it's limited to one faction, making it a major disruption/annoyance that AM never has to encounter.


    Iniar
  • IniarIniar AustraliaMember Posts: 3,213 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Iluv was summoner. Not sure why he was wielding his dirk but was certainly invoking hellsight.
    wit beyond measure is a Sidhe's greatest treasure
    Mathiaus
  • RahielRahiel Member Posts: 51 ✭✭
    edited April 2015
    Wysrias said:

    That's the problem though - we DO need 'alpha damage'. This has been proven time and time again when we try to set up affliction kills and lose a person per round due to sheer damage output. In addition, assassin has the lowest damage mitigation across demonic, with weaving providing only a 5% resistance, for a class that gets no bonus to constitution, no health bonus, no sip bonus, no active heal. Assassins drop like flies in groups. If you disagree, feel free to give the profession a try, and you'll see why only a handful of players elect to use it.

    The thing is, we've all fought against banish and deliverance too. We are intimately familiar with it, as we've all died to it more times than we'd probably care to admit. The major difference here versus other IRE games is that, in every other IRE game where deliverance is a mechanic, it's available to all factions. Aetolia and Achaea both have monks present on every side. Here, it's limited to one faction, making it a major disruption/annoyance that AM never has to encounter.

    Demonic has plenty of damage right now with Deathknight doing Axe Reave w/Soulquench and Negate. That's 120 unblockable right there from the Soulquench alone. Summoner also does very high damage in groups as does Defiler. However, I do agree with Demonic that the damage meta is a bit of a problem and a lot of classes are doing too much damage with little effort involved. As for trying Assassin, I've played Syssin/Serpent/etc. to absolute death at this point but I did originally thought about playing it but ultimately settled on Ranger.

    Ultimately, if you feel it's a problem, feel free to submit a classlead about it. I would probably comment with opposition to anything supporting outright removal/shafting it to the point where it's not worth spending the kai to use. If you want to reduce the amount of time that someone spends banished, that would probably net more support.
  • IniarIniar AustraliaMember Posts: 3,213 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I don't have an issue with avoiding Deliverance. I think it is hilarious and cutesy. It is the reason why I like Meteor and Sukhder's Minion. What irks me is the frustratingly lack of options after the initial bowling-pin teehee. If you think that range is a valid option against a monk, a monk with flip boots, and a monk with flipboots and a Raksha band, then we'll have to agree to disagree.
    wit beyond measure is a Sidhe's greatest treasure
  • RahielRahiel Member Posts: 51 ✭✭
    edited April 2015
    Iniar said:

    I don't have an issue with avoiding Deliverance. I think it is hilarious and cutesy. It is the reason why I like Meteor and Sukhder's Minion. What irks me is the frustratingly lack of options after the initial bowling-pin teehee. If you think that range is a valid option against a monk, a monk with flip boots, and a monk with flipboots and a Raksha band, then we'll have to agree to disagree.

    That suggests more an issue with Raksha and flip boots more than Deliverance (or Monk), and I'd actually agree. Pretty sure the Raksha argument, from what I've seen over the years, has been beaten to death at this point. Range does stop Raksha users though. In the three skirmishes I've had with Aakrin involved, I can say that shooting him with nets stopped his raksha on top of pinshot and every other hinder I can muster. I'm fine with relegating myself to a support role if it benefits my team.
  • IniarIniar AustraliaMember Posts: 3,213 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Your hinder is out of room. Mine is in-room. I pretty much floored the pedal on the cheese-y-ness factor (I hate doing this, damn you @Septus) and still two proficient fighters and one tag-along got supremely outcheesed by the Cheese Meister himself.
    wit beyond measure is a Sidhe's greatest treasure
  • RahielRahiel Member Posts: 51 ✭✭
    Actually, I hear that Septus has a very large aversion to clowns. I'm of the opinion that we should import the Jester class to Imperian so that we can counter Septus.
  • KabaalKabaal Member Posts: 303 ✭✭✭
    Even a newbie is "useful" in an open world group because there are no diminishing returns, but I wouldn't play Assassin in team combat except for that I only play Assassin. 

    No, a person who plays Assassin shouldn't be discouraged from participating in group combat, but if you told someone wanting to specifically do group PK as a Demoner to roll Assassin, I'd think you were trolling.

  • CassiusCassius Member, Beta Testers Posts: 593 ✭✭✭
    Rahiel said:

    Actually, I hear that Septus has a very large aversion to clowns. I'm of the opinion that we should import the Jester class to Imperian so that we can counter Septus.

    Bard is already a thing.
  • RahielRahiel Member Posts: 51 ✭✭
    edited April 2015
    Cassius said:

    Rahiel said:

    Actually, I hear that Septus has a very large aversion to clowns. I'm of the opinion that we should import the Jester class to Imperian so that we can counter Septus.

    Bard is already a thing.
    Bard can't touch Jester in terms of clown and tomfoolery. Septus really hates clowns and Jester by extension. Ring convos have verified this.
  • CassiusCassius Member, Beta Testers Posts: 593 ✭✭✭
    Rahiel said:

    Cassius said:

    Rahiel said:

    Actually, I hear that Septus has a very large aversion to clowns. I'm of the opinion that we should import the Jester class to Imperian so that we can counter Septus.

    Bard is already a thing.
    Bard can't touch Jester in terms of clown and tomfoolery. Septus really hates clowns and Jester by extension. Ring convos have verified this.
    You apparently don't know bard.
  • RahielRahiel Member Posts: 51 ✭✭
    When Bards have a jack-in-the-box instakill that bites heads off and their version of piety rite is throwing banana peels everywhere, I will believe you!
    Mathiaus
  • CassiusCassius Member, Beta Testers Posts: 593 ✭✭✭
    edited April 2015
    What I'm saying is that bards have enough shenanigans and poor mechanics that Imperian doesn't really need more silly classes.
  • OzreasOzreas Member, Beta Testers Posts: 191 ✭✭✭
    Solution: give assassins the ability to abduct people into phase.
    CassiusMathiausRahiel
  • KhizanKhizan Member Posts: 2,648 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Wysrias said:
    I remember when Danaeus was nerfed from 6 seconds to 4 seconds, because despite the fact that it exists on a 40s cooldown and has a counter available to every single profession in the game, it was deemed too powerful of a team disruption tool.
    I just want to point out here that the problem was "Khizan uses Danaeus, Khizan uses Dameron Danaeus, Iluv uses Danaeus, Iluv uses Dameron Danaeus..." in a gigantic chain of CC. We could and did Danaeus Risca out of fights for 30 seconds or more at a time.

    I don't think the duration nerf was the best change to the skill, but it did need a change. 

    "On the battlefield I am a god. I love war. The steel, the smell, the corpses. I wish there were more. On the first day I drove the Northmen back alone at the ford. Alone! On the second I carried the bridge! Me! Yesterday I climbed the Heroes! I love war! I… I wish it wasn’t over."

    Dicene
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