Attacking a prismatic barrier does not consume balance or equilibrium, so causing it to absorb damage (and thus have the attack actually delivered, consuming balance/eq) would actually make it a much more powerful tool. There's no penalty for attacking a prismatic right now so you're able to swap targets.
Prismatic does not need a buff in any way, shape or form. A global counter or other limiter is essential at this point.
I'm not saying it shouldn't have CD or whatever as well, just was commenting on a mechanic to break it in the first place.
I get what you're saying, I'm just pointing out that attacking a prismatic barrier returns "You are repelled by the prismatic barrier surrounding blah blah" and unlike hitting a shield, there's no equilibrium knock for hitting it. In order to reasonably deliver damage (and thus prevent a screen of spam attacking to break the barrier), attacking it to deliver damage to the barrier would have to consume your balance/eq for that round. This would be a big upgrade to prismatic because there's no 'touch hammer' analog that would reward proper tracking; you would be forced to use up presumably several rounds of balance/eq to break the barrier.
I guess I don't understand that, cause it would be a choice to either stay on target and burst the barrier, or switch target. Barriers have messages for going up, so any wasted balance would really be on the attacker. Also, I fail to see it as upgrade, because it would make barrier breakable.
Barrier is already circumstantially breakable. The issue is that it's not uniform, so barrier fluctuates between ignorable (well-stocked necromancers, evileye/curse heavy team that knows how to use masochism), and overpowered as all crap (no cleavers, no bypassers, no soulspears).
The benefit is that, because prismatic cannot be broken outside of these circumstances, there's no penalty to the attacker for hitting it - because there's no counterplay most of the time. If the barrier absorbed the hit, I would not be able to shuffle my target because it would consume my round of offense. This makes it like a shield tattoo that can only be broken by hammering it ten times or whatever threshold you'd like to set. The reason this is an upgrade is because it goes from not consuming balance and not breaking the barrier, to consuming balance and not breaking the barrier.
Barrier is already circumstantially breakable. The issue is that it's not uniform, so barrier fluctuates between ignorable (well-stocked necromancers, evileye/curse heavy team that knows how to use masochism), and overpowered as all crap (no cleavers, no bypassers, no soulspears).
The benefit is that, because prismatic cannot be broken outside of these circumstances, there's no penalty to the attacker for hitting it - because there's no counterplay most of the time. If the barrier absorbed the hit, I would not be able to shuffle my target because it would consume my round of offense. This makes it like a shield tattoo that can only be broken by hammering it ten times or whatever threshold you'd like to set. The reason this is an upgrade is because it goes from not consuming balance and not breaking the barrier, to consuming balance and not breaking the barrier.
Again, if you hit the barrier and wasted a balance, that's 100% your fault and I would have no problem seeing this penalized.
Barrier is already circumstantially breakable. The issue is that it's not uniform, so barrier fluctuates between ignorable (well-stocked necromancers, evileye/curse heavy team that knows how to use masochism), and overpowered as all crap (no cleavers, no bypassers, no soulspears).
The benefit is that, because prismatic cannot be broken outside of these circumstances, there's no penalty to the attacker for hitting it - because there's no counterplay most of the time. If the barrier absorbed the hit, I would not be able to shuffle my target because it would consume my round of offense. This makes it like a shield tattoo that can only be broken by hammering it ten times or whatever threshold you'd like to set. The reason this is an upgrade is because it goes from not consuming balance and not breaking the barrier, to consuming balance and not breaking the barrier.
Again, if you hit the barrier and wasted a balance, that's 100% your fault and I would have no problem seeing this penalized.
You are literally suggesting that hitting the barrier SHOULD be the counterplay, meaning the attacker should be penalized for the correct action. How do you legitimately not see this as an upgrade?
Just put a hard time limit on the barrier's duration, followed by a cool down half or as long. You know, if deleting the skill outright isn't an option.
Well, that'd be an improvement, but not really solve the issue (that being that noone can afford to burn upwards of 5 seconds minimum with their entire team stalemated out of killing one person). Add multiple people with barriers and this gets exponentially worse.
Pretty much necessitates an active barrier break of some form (or at least, more abilities that bypass it). I personally like the latter I think, but I'd be cool with either.
Barrier is already circumstantially breakable. The issue is that it's not uniform, so barrier fluctuates between ignorable (well-stocked necromancers, evileye/curse heavy team that knows how to use masochism), and overpowered as all crap (no cleavers, no bypassers, no soulspears).
The benefit is that, because prismatic cannot be broken outside of these circumstances, there's no penalty to the attacker for hitting it - because there's no counterplay most of the time. If the barrier absorbed the hit, I would not be able to shuffle my target because it would consume my round of offense. This makes it like a shield tattoo that can only be broken by hammering it ten times or whatever threshold you'd like to set. The reason this is an upgrade is because it goes from not consuming balance and not breaking the barrier, to consuming balance and not breaking the barrier.
Again, if you hit the barrier and wasted a balance, that's 100% your fault and I would have no problem seeing this penalized.
You are literally suggesting that hitting the barrier SHOULD be the counterplay, meaning the attacker should be penalized for the correct action. How do you legitimately not see this as an upgrade?
It wouldn't be an upgrade, because there would be a hard limit on the raw damage mitigation from the barrier instead of the infinity it's currently limited by. In a team environment with 5 people claymoreing you, the barrier would likely only last 1 set of balances or something, depending on the actual limit imposed. Depending on your team makeup, etc., you'd have to decide to continue on and burst the shield or change targets, which is good situational awareness. It likely still needs a global CD so it can't be spammed as already discussed too.
In general, I think this is a more accessible option since:
The artifact that people purchased still carries some value vs. something easily bypassed or breakable making lyre fairly worthless
This could also open up to differentiating between prof skill, temp arties, and purchased arties, perhaps having different damage caps on each.
Doesn't require someone to buy an artifact just to be competitive against barrier (see combat accessibility for newbies)
Everyone can contribute to this, not just those that buy the arty...and then you are back to the same problem that your team may have no way to break barrier.
In theory (on paper) your idea sounds ok. In practice,it's not. With either of your changes, 1v1 is terrible. Example is that Septus will prismatic me, and I have to waste 3 attacks (4-18 seconds) breaking his barrier while his passives tick. The second issue in teams is that if I have 3 people (less than the average team) I'm going to instagib your barrier in a team fight. The alternative is that he prismatics and I spam against his barrier and it's defeated .5s after it came up. Two of your ideas trivialize barriers, one of them super powers them (Which explains the Chronus upvote).
Barriers need to remain as a substantial defense to justify the cost (be it faith or credits). That being said, I think it's time to remove prismatics from profession specific skills. After that, we need to address how prismatic barriers function in the actual game. If I prismatic as a WD, it's really sort of self defeating. I have very little passive healing going so I'm going to be almost as bad off as when I barried. Now, if I'm a defiler, templar, cleric, I'm going to come out of that barrier feeling like a million bucks. Passives need to be addressed with barriers.Lastly, your attacking the wrong end of the problem (as it is too hard to balance). There need to be more globally accessible ways to break a barrier. The easiest way to do this is to generalize the skill and give it two costs (shard, commodity) and an opportunity cost (I just wasted 4s balance to take down Septus aura for 30s). This forces me to spoil 1-2 balances to knock Septus out of immortal mode. It's favors smart play on both Septus' part and my part. At the end of the day, prismatic barriers are badass because something like 10-20% have access to prismatic breaking skills. Of that, 2% actually know that they do or how to use them. Now, flip that to how many fights you see 1,2,3 prismatic barriers per 'fight'.
I put fight in quotes because prismatic spamming is the opposite of fighting. It's a hard tank skill that stalls a fight because it's 1) spammable 2) not easily removed 3) 100% effective against 80% of the game. We've made a habit of removing, nerfing 'stall' skills, we should follow through on old promises and keep that trend going
I upvoted Cassius post because it's at least something new to the table. Takes a bit of balancing before it would work. I think it would be better if the bal/eq taken was standardized to something short like 1s static bal/eq and it'd take maybe 5 attacks total to bring the prism down. That means it's good defensively 1v1 and delays the outcome in a group fight plus anyone, small or big, can bring it down - even mobs(!).
However I think the easiest fix probably is to repurpose Shatter, which has been said before. Maybe speed it up. I don't remember how fast it is before it hits you once started. 3-4s should be a good number. Maybe move the ability to Survival for even more accessibility. But it should be a pretty fast channeled ability that the opposing team can stop if they want to or just ignore it. The no balance when hitting the prism is of course left intact with this suggestion.
Throw a cooldown on prism no matter what fix we go with so it can't be used over and over, because you know.. that's not fun. I think we could stretch that cooldown to something like 1 min just to make the user think before putting it up. I'm also all for blocking passives in forms of regens and healing afflictions during the usage of prism, just to make it equal for everyone.
Finally, I think prism should be that thing you cast in order to delay the outcome and buy your team some time to kill that focus target and get the upper hand. It should force the user to use it skillfully and time it well on a conservative level, not something you spam in order to be "immortal"
@Chronus I like this a great deal, especially because of: "..But it should be a pretty fast channeled ability that the opposing team can stop if they want to or just ignore it..."
This is great for two/three reasons.
1. Allows a 500 credit artifact to still be effective in team/1v1 but does not shut out the target completely from 80% of the game's classes. 2. Gives maul a purpose to be used again, and allows for 'smart' combat situations. In most cases, this is player to player associated and allows it to still be super effective for caravans as well. 3. Allows a simple coding solution to the problem instead of a round-a-bout complex scenario everyone else has been throwing out there.
None of that really gets down to the real problem. Prismatic is busted as shit, but would be less overtly powerful if there were clear, balanced, and accessible ways to deal with it (read: if there was counterplay). As it stands, the documentation on any prismatic counter is laughable - and it goes without saying prismatic answers are few and far between as it is.
Did you guys know, for instance, than Glaivetoss (the Ranger-only glaive throw skill) is documented as going through prismatic. It does. It does not, however, BREAK it. On the other side of the coin, Javelintoss (the Amazon only throw) works like a long shot or meteor arrow and does shatter prismatics? Despite the fact that these two classes were supposed to just be copies of one another these days?
What the skill needs is counters, and to be taken away from the realm of super spammable (hello, Druids). All your arguments are doing is draw the eye away from the fact that prismatic itself as a concept is bullshit, and a big contributor to that fact is that there are no good or reliable answers to the CURRENT version.
<div>Message #2062 Sent By: (imperian) Received On: 1/20/2018/2:59</div><div>"Antioch has filed a bounty against you. Reason: Raiding Antioch and stealing Bina, being a right</div><div>ass, and not belonging anywhere near Antioch till he grows up."</div>
I'm really sad this didn't get approved, @Garryn. I think if you look at the end-goal of any skill development, you want it to be fun and I don't doubt that a change like this would improve the 'fun' level of the skill.
E: see, by the time an instant-kill goes through, those that would die from not being aware enough, would already be dead. Those that aren't dead currently -have- to sit and wait for 30 seconds doing nothing. There is zero risk-reward left after the first 5 seconds, both for the monk and their assailants. If this is approved, at least there is some decision-making to be made (risk-reward etc).
17:24:13.363 543[100] 585[96] e- db 0 0 91.69 0 [a: 1][m: 0] [[\\\\\\\\\\]] 17:24:13.366 Screaming out a warcry of pure strength, Quel brings his claymore crashing straight down on the head of Seria. With 17:24:13.366 unbelievable power, Quel's claymore rips through Seria's entire body, cleaving it asunder and killing her instantly. 17:24:13.368 The last vestiges of strength having ebbed from Seria's body, she sinks to the floor with a sigh. Suddenly, your 17:24:13.368 surroundings are enveloped in a blinding white light, forcing you to cower with your hands over your eyes. When you 17:24:13.368 tentatively open them once more, you are astonished to find Seria alive once more. 17:24:13.368 rt Redemption - Seria|rt Redemption - Seria| 17:24:13.371 543[100] 585[96] e- db 0 0 91.69 0 [a: 1][m: 0] [[\\\\\\\\\\]]
Redemption, starburst and combustion should reward the killer with experience and PK xp. I think a 100% health boost is good enough to stand alone without providing PK rank protection - that is what the Champion system should exist for.
Which was compared to and adjusted to match things like fitness which is guaranteed to cure a locking affliction and start unraveling a stack (if you can fire it which Care has the same restrictions on). So while being able to cure some random affliction is nice when trying to tank an affliction profession it isn't nearly as useful as things like fitness.
3.2 seconds eq without diadem, 2.75 seconds with diadem as athletic. But as Edmund noted, it's a random cure and has restrictions on when it can be used (including being prone).
Cleric whining is turrble. It was a legit and necessary change. It's not even that bad. You've still got your training wheels on and you're going to be ok. It's just not as easy as it was (it still is).
Active heals are honestly better (if you know what you're doing) than passive heals. If we're not going to get generalized fitness, then clerics definitely don't need it, as they're already sitting on two levels of "how do I cure, I dunno, turn this on."
Prone isn't a really devastating affliction anymore. If you can't stand up, you're probably so messed up not even training wheels can save you.
Maybe we are dancing around terminology. I would consider seraph care an active heal. You SERAPH CARE it cost balance and you cure one random affliction.
The only thing a cleric can 'turn on' is Healing rite, which unlike Syphon I can't mount and ride around.
As a complete aside, I am very jealous that Diabolists can ride around on their ouroboros (ouroboroi? Unsure of plural form). Why can't my seraph give me piggyback rides?
The only thing a cleric can 'turn on' is Healing rite, which unlike Syphon I can't mount and ride around.
As a complete aside, I am very jealous that Diabolists can ride around on their ouroboros (ouroboroi? Unsure of plural form). Why can't my seraph give me piggyback rides?
Seraphs are (were?) incorporeal beings that could not be targetted, whereas you could kill an ouroboros if you wanted to. Swings and roundabouts.
The only thing a cleric can 'turn on' is Healing rite, which unlike Syphon I can't mount and ride around.
As a complete aside, I am very jealous that Diabolists can ride around on their ouroboros (ouroboroi? Unsure of plural form). Why can't my seraph give me piggyback rides?
I tried to get basilisk the same treatment and was denied in classlead.
Bliss is probably the best aff healing ability in the game, particularly on priest (since you're not hugely impacted by stopping to put it up - the momentum isn't really enormously time critical). You'll be set back slightly, but it won't reset your progress by any means. This was also the real issue with seraph care being so fast, I'd say. If other classes stopped to might/etc, they were probably going to lose progress, but old seraph care was easily fast enough to hit/care/hit and not really be set back any kanai. The change should fix that, which is good.
Comments
The benefit is that, because prismatic cannot be broken outside of these circumstances, there's no penalty to the attacker for hitting it - because there's no counterplay most of the time. If the barrier absorbed the hit, I would not be able to shuffle my target because it would consume my round of offense. This makes it like a shield tattoo that can only be broken by hammering it ten times or whatever threshold you'd like to set. The reason this is an upgrade is because it goes from not consuming balance and not breaking the barrier, to consuming balance and not breaking the barrier.
Well, that'd be an improvement, but not really solve the issue (that being that noone can afford to burn upwards of 5 seconds minimum with their entire team stalemated out of killing one person). Add multiple people with barriers and this gets exponentially worse.
Pretty much necessitates an active barrier break of some form (or at least, more abilities that bypass it). I personally like the latter I think, but I'd be cool with either.
In theory (on paper) your idea sounds ok. In practice,it's not. With either of your changes, 1v1 is terrible. Example is that Septus will prismatic me, and I have to waste 3 attacks (4-18 seconds) breaking his barrier while his passives tick. The second issue in teams is that if I have 3 people (less than the average team) I'm going to instagib your barrier in a team fight. The alternative is that he prismatics and I spam against his barrier and it's defeated .5s after it came up. Two of your ideas trivialize barriers, one of them super powers them (Which explains the Chronus upvote).
Barriers need to remain as a substantial defense to justify the cost (be it faith or credits). That being said, I think it's time to remove prismatics from profession specific skills. After that, we need to address how prismatic barriers function in the actual game. If I prismatic as a WD, it's really sort of self defeating. I have very little passive healing going so I'm going to be almost as bad off as when I barried. Now, if I'm a defiler, templar, cleric, I'm going to come out of that barrier feeling like a million bucks. Passives need to be addressed with barriers.Lastly, your attacking the wrong end of the problem (as it is too hard to balance). There need to be more globally accessible ways to break a barrier. The easiest way to do this is to generalize the skill and give it two costs (shard, commodity) and an opportunity cost (I just wasted 4s balance to take down Septus aura for 30s). This forces me to spoil 1-2 balances to knock Septus out of immortal mode. It's favors smart play on both Septus' part and my part. At the end of the day, prismatic barriers are badass because something like 10-20% have access to prismatic breaking skills. Of that, 2% actually know that they do or how to use them. Now, flip that to how many fights you see 1,2,3 prismatic barriers per 'fight'.
This is great for two/three reasons.
1. Allows a 500 credit artifact to still be effective in team/1v1 but does not shut out the target completely from 80% of the game's classes.
2. Gives maul a purpose to be used again, and allows for 'smart' combat situations. In most cases, this is player to player associated and allows it to still be super effective for caravans as well.
3. Allows a simple coding solution to the problem instead of a round-a-bout complex scenario everyone else has been throwing out there.
Just my two cents.
Did you guys know, for instance, than Glaivetoss (the Ranger-only glaive throw skill) is documented as going through prismatic. It does. It does not, however, BREAK it. On the other side of the coin, Javelintoss (the Amazon only throw) works like a long shot or meteor arrow and does shatter prismatics? Despite the fact that these two classes were supposed to just be copies of one another these days?
What the skill needs is counters, and to be taken away from the realm of super spammable (hello, Druids). All your arguments are doing is draw the eye away from the fact that prismatic itself as a concept is bullshit, and a big contributor to that fact is that there are no good or reliable answers to the CURRENT version.
Active heals are honestly better (if you know what you're doing) than passive heals. If we're not going to get generalized fitness, then clerics definitely don't need it, as they're already sitting on two levels of "how do I cure, I dunno, turn this on."
Prone isn't a really devastating affliction anymore. If you can't stand up, you're probably so messed up not even training wheels can save you.
(you still have revitalization and care and bliss which gives fitness)
I tried to get basilisk the same treatment and was denied in classlead.