"On the battlefield I am a god. I love war. The steel, the smell, the corpses. I wish there were more. On the first day I drove the Northmen back alone at the ford. Alone! On the second I carried the bridge! Me! Yesterday I climbed the Heroes! I love war! I… I wish it wasn’t over."
Monolith sigils, consecration, and hazewards need to prevent pet tracking. Simple fix for something that has turned into a new age version of point wand at target. Only without a warning message.
Ie. Your <pet> cannot seem to find that individual.
Monolith sigils, consecration, and hazewards need to prevent pet tracking. Simple fix for something that has turned into a new age version of point wand at target. Only without a warning message.
Ie. Your <pet> cannot seem to find that individual.
You have mentioned this every page and in other threads. Like the Veil of Obtenebrate, it will never be nerfed because the cost is absolutely astronomical and the supply is incredibly limited.
Get over it.
<div>Message #2062 Sent By: (imperian) Received On: 1/20/2018/2:59</div><div>"Antioch has filed a bounty against you. Reason: Raiding Antioch and stealing Bina, being a right</div><div>ass, and not belonging anywhere near Antioch till he grows up."</div>
Monolith sigils, consecration, and hazewards need to prevent pet tracking. Simple fix for something that has turned into a new age version of point wand at target. Only without a warning message.
Ie. Your <pet> cannot seem to find that individual.
You have mentioned this every page and in other threads. Like the Veil of Obtenebrate, it will never be nerfed because the cost is absolutely astronomical and the supply is incredibly limited.
Get over it.
I believe you mentioned something about frequency of use causing the issue to be brought up. See raids on Stavenn, Shardfalls, and Obelisk battles.
Maybe there could be a new engineering item that functions like tentacle tattoo for guards? As of right now, it's easier to raid with tracking mounts than for you guys to use the profession you have that was designed for infiltration. It can't be due to a shortage of predators.
We definitely are not raiding with artifact tracking mounts. If you honestly believe this, you are as clueless as you make yourself out to be on a daily basis.
As well, we should be encouraging conflict and infiltration methods - the difference here is that a veil helps AVOID conflict, whereas a tracking pet allows you to ENGAGE conflict.
EDIT: Making a city harder to infiltrate will only encourage stagnation. Shardfalls should not be the only source of PK. Cities should be generally safe, not entirely impenetrable. You guys could easily enter our city if you wanted, you just choose not to because your circle is apathy-ridden and more concerned with bemoaning their lot in the scheme of class balance instead of realizing what they have.
<div>Message #2062 Sent By: (imperian) Received On: 1/20/2018/2:59</div><div>"Antioch has filed a bounty against you. Reason: Raiding Antioch and stealing Bina, being a right</div><div>ass, and not belonging anywhere near Antioch till he grows up."</div>
Artifact pet tracking mounts aren't how we are raiding Stavenn, it's the mixture of Menoch doing the defence minister's job and me being a ninja outrider, I mean, us abusing grace that is getting us in, remember?
I don't raid cities because city raids are boring and a part of an era of Imperian that should stay dead. It has nothing to do with apathy or stagnation.
They're amusing for one side or the other for a few minutes before they're boring for everyone.
I am the righteous one... the claims are stated - it's the world I've created
Engage in conflict is really a a clever turn of a phrase. What Sarrius is driving at is "engage in conflict that I am certain that I can win or do not engage at all."
City raiding does not foster conflict. City raiding isn't really fun for people. City raiding only generates pvp for one or two people while allowing coat-tail chasers an opportunity to shine and get some fodder for "back in the day" war stories.
How Anti-Magick raids:
Azefel tracks in using the outrider skillset, not an artifact pet. This allows him to track in while flying. Upon entering, Azefel spams a direction to avoid the tentacle he thinks is coming (he raided Khandava too many times) and runs to a location in the periphery of a city. He lands, goes into an indoor room and shard walls the exit leading out to the rest of the organization. Upon establishing a beach head, Azefel uses tells or ring to tell Juran to moradeim bypass in. At this juncture, a few things may happen. They may call for reinforcements, depending on who they're after, and they'll build up quite the team. If the security aides are on the spot, they've guard rushed and the raid is over. If they're not, people will die pointlessly for anywhere between 10-40m and the raiders will get guard rushed. Regardless of how this ends, one person hop-skips-and-twists away from the 'combat that is fun' leaving his stalwart companions to get deliciously mauled by npcs. Azefel will lol. Sarrius will complain.
Sarrius is misrepresenting arguments here again. Outrider track is unique in it's ability to infiltrate deep into an enemy organization in a single movement. It also allows for the rapid exit in the same command. The only counter here is preparation born of paranoia and/or experience. I honestly sit outside in Khandava baiting people to track to me. I urge other people to do the same.
Antioch's lay out is pretty easy to defend. The paranoia inspires people to spam seance on the roadway (they don't decay when the owner isn't there, maybe they should?). Juxtapose doesn't trump masks or track. Depending on ping wars, Azefel is faster than a tentacle tattoo.
The old 'raids' were based around strip combat bonanza. Hood nullifies that for Magick and Demonic. Anti-magick has the best effective ranged strip right now. I guess we could mindlessly throw ourselves into the siege line? Six hours later, Kyrock got a kill.
At the end of the day. Raiding as demonic takes a lot of luck and a lot of skill for very little payout. Raiding as Anti-magick is really just waiting for the unlucky novice to step outside and get someone to mind command tumble (don't bother trying to argue 'it's easy to stop', we pioneered the counter to that) so they get more out of raids.
We definitely are not raiding with artifact tracking mounts. If you honestly believe this, you are as clueless as you make yourself out to be on a daily basis.
As well, we should be encouraging conflict and infiltration methods - the difference here is that a veil helps AVOID conflict, whereas a tracking pet allows you to ENGAGE conflict.
EDIT: Making a city harder to infiltrate will only encourage stagnation. Shardfalls should not be the only source of PK. Cities should be generally safe, not entirely impenetrable. You guys could easily enter our city if you wanted, you just choose not to because your circle is apathy-ridden and more concerned with bemoaning their lot in the scheme of class balance instead of realizing what they have.
I said pet track. Meaning artifact and wyrms. Mainly referring to what Ahkan just said. Forgive me that I do not have time to sit around and type long messages as I'm less than 32 hours from deploying.
(don't bother trying to argue 'it's easy to stop', we pioneered the counter to that)
It's easy to stop.
"On the battlefield I am a god. I love war. The steel, the smell, the corpses. I wish there were more. On the first day I drove the Northmen back alone at the ford. Alone! On the second I carried the bridge! Me! Yesterday I climbed the Heroes! I love war! I… I wish it wasn’t over."
There are really two types of raids. Go in with a purpose, like infiltrating to kill Therian. There's also the other type, "I'm bored and want to stir up some shit." Neither are really bad. The second one gets out of hands when you come in because you're bored and possibly want to farm some pk reasons. When you get into the farming stage, it really becomes unfun for everyone involved (except maybe one or two people). Last nights raid was farming, let's be honest here, kids. You didn't start lol raiding until 45m into it.
The bigger issue here is that raiding has no benefit outside hurhur jollies for the minority. I'm totally down for watching people try to raid Khandava to kill me. I'm not down for people getting trolled (Example: Kanthari), because he's a city leader and might, could possibly, look at a guard in a manner that suggested anti-raid behavior. Let's not lie here, we've all done it. The way to move away from this is to give raiding a point. Offer some sort of substantial reward, outside of a kill count +1, where people can get in, win, get their shiny, earn their bounty (for pvpz later) and get out. You can use whatever justification you want, but there's just not a mechanic way to justify 'occupation' (because you kids would exploit it!).
Ideas: Ability to raid and steal shards from the generator. You're not going to be able to get to the generator, but that's ok. If you design the system right, you can syphon off shards (some voodoo here) remotely. The closer you are, the faster it is. Here you are rewarded for good planning and execution by faster raids and maybe a little extra. You could cap the reward daily and by time. No more than 200 shards per rl day, etc.
You could honestly do the same with comm-shops. We need something to start chipping away at the commodity stock pile.
The only problems I see arising are that certain organizations have been allowed huge opportunities to greatly altar their layout (Kinsarmar, wut up), while other orgs have been told no (Lol noble's area). If you're going to commit to an 'endorse city raiding system' (which shards and commodities can handle) you need to allow some prep time to allow some organizations to revamp their layouts to be less exploitable. Or..force some cities back to the old configuration. You either need to take a stance of RAIDING IS DUMB AND SLAP WRIST or RAIDING IS A FACT OF LIFE AND A METHOD OF CONFLICT GENERATION.
Mind you, you wouldn't be able to deplete comms or shards to 0, because no one is that dimwitted. There should be a hard cap, because despite the 'realism' factor. Some people just don't have the problem solving ability god cave a termite and it's unfair to have an entire organization fail because you could vote Violet out power fast enough.
I'm really not sure how it's conflict generating when you have to jump people who are auto-bashing or afk in a city. The availability of escape skills (Aspect, Profession, or Raksha Band) makes hunting people down just not worth the effort. As an Assassin, I could actually go into a City / Council and kill people when they thought there were safe or afk. Pathfinding, paralysis cooldown, and many other changes have made pinning someone down near impossible. Spamming "path go" tends to work eventually.
So again, how does this push conflict generation when the only conflict which exists are groups spamming hinders while fighting on top of whchever shiny is present?
Gaze can be stopped. You can also kill to deny monolith control. Profession based skills can be stopped.
You can keep people from leaving with good set up and target selection. (traps, lightwalls, block, demon ensnare) Raksha Band leads to a circular argument. You buy it to escape dying. Then you say you only use it to escape teams. You can and should team to deny the twist. Yay, circles!
There's been more conflict and more involvement in conflict that there has been in years. I'd even say there's more than in the first two years of Imperian. There's ways to pick up fights if you want to. Ask Azefel, he has a newsletter. Iluv too.
I'm not saying that fights are not possible. I'm merely pointing out that they are more of a pain now and typically take longer than is worthwhile. This is also depending on which profession is being used by the attacker and intended victim.
Diabolist: Gravehands
Assassin: Block, Traps, and Blizzard
Summoner: Tower and Tentacles
Deathknight: Block, Engage, and Gravehands
Keeping someone in a fight shouldn't depend on the profession because that just gives people less of a reason to play those professions for pvp.
@Luthyr Keeping someone in a fight has always been a factor in Imperian. It isn't something new. Sure some people are just going to always run, and MOST of the time they might succeed, but it still isn't something new to Imperian. Figure out your classes gimmick to pick someone off while they are out. You are an assassin, you have an entire horde of stuff to choose from to pick someone off.
Will it be easier for some classes to do this than others? Of course, but that's the nature of having diverse classes. Choose accordingly.
I really think you don't read what I write. I am just pointing out that it is "easier" to escape. I know it has been mentioned directly before regarding the cooldown for paralysis.
If someone gets out of the room now, they are gone. Travels skills or path finding. Gone.
You are right that keeping someone in a room has always been a factor. However, G-bot changed that dynamic as well. Your first hit decides the course of the fight or lack there of. If you have to drop room attacks/defense, then you are giving them more of a chance to escape. At that point, it can become spam path go or whichever skill you want to use.
Regarding more conflict, that is a bit of a one-sided topic. Group fight activity is up. 1v1 is almost nonexistent with the exception of assassin/renegade kills inside cities/councils where siege and guards can't find them after they have managed to vortex someone or brazier someone somehow.
If you look at deathlogs, how many of those are from 1 on 1 fights? How many people participate in a Free-For-All? You cannot compare early Imperian with what it is now as the skills have changed, the population is much smaller, and the ease of escape is higher. Some classes cannot hold someone in a room and some are still judged by memories of how they were before modern Imperian.
If the aim of the administration is to push for only group battles around shardfalls (groups), monoliths (groups), obelisks (groups), or off hours raids, hen go for it. But why have bounties and assassin contracts which are rarely completed outside group fights?
Ambushes are more limited by profession now than they ever were years ago. Hence, why bother trying to fight people in the world when you can just wait till a scheduled group battle and maybe get the lucky killing blow?
I went into that expecting to be able to clear the clot with about half that many deaths, but elite guards en masse hit harder than I remember. Your guard clots are basically safe. It isn't something I expect to do again.
I really think you don't read what I write. I am just pointing out that it is "easier" to escape. I know it has been mentioned directly before regarding the cooldown for paralysis.
If easier escapes is the price for actually being able to fight if I wanted to, then so be it.
If someone gets out of the room now, they are gone. Travels skills or path finding. Gone.
That has always been the case, since the advent of IMAP at least.
You are right that keeping someone in a room has always been a factor. However, G-bot changed that dynamic as well. Your first hit decides the course of the fight or lack there of. If you have to drop room attacks/defense, then you are giving them more of a chance to escape. At that point, it can become spam path go or whichever skill you want to use.
Point of attack is all that really matters here. If you are going after him/her while they are bashing just plan your jump spot and prep it.
Regarding more conflict, that is a bit of a one-sided topic. Group fight activity is up. 1v1 is almost nonexistent with the exception of assassin/renegade kills inside cities/councils where siege and guards can't find them after they have managed to vortex someone or brazier someone somehow.
Assassin's are King at getting and winning 1v1 conflicts at the moment, finally something we agree on.
If you look at deathlogs, how many of those are from 1 on 1 fights? How many people participate in a Free-For-All? You cannot compare early Imperian with what it is now as the skills have changed, the population is much smaller, and the ease of escape is higher. Some classes cannot hold someone in a room and some are still judged by memories of how they were before modern Imperian.
Group battles are just going to take precedence over 1v1's. I don't like it either, but it is what it is. I also understand why they do. It lessens the curve by which one can actually get in on fighting. Still something needs to be done in regards to 1v1's in the same vein as shardfalls did for group battles. Champion helps on that front a bit, but you are still just as likely to get teamed rather than face someone 1v1.
If the aim of the administration is to push for only group battles around shardfalls (groups), monoliths (groups), obelisks (groups), or off hours raids, hen go for it. But why have bounties and assassin contracts which are rarely completed outside group fights?
Because you can still get that 1v1 encounter if planned appropriately.
Ambushes are more limited by profession now than they ever were years ago. Hence, why bother trying to fight people in the world when you can just wait till a scheduled group battle and maybe get the lucky killing blow?
I can only speak for myself here, but I don't get that feeling of accomplishment when I kill someone in a group. That's pretty much just russian roulette without the you dying part.
People avoid 1v1 for a lot of reasons. Three of them stand out
-It's boring.
-Some classes are just better at it than you are.
-They suck at 1v1.
First one is just a personal opinion. I've been challenged to 'fight alone' and fought alone and won only to have the cry "again" spam my tells. The whole e-bushido, white knight bs is exactly that, bs. It's all fun and games that people get off on until they challenge you and you kill them. Then it's a crap show.
Right now, Outrider is a pretty crazy 1v1 class. If you use g-bot, you're gambling with your life on every mending salve balance. A lot of the updated classes are dyed in the wool g-bot killers. Funny how that works...
Option 3 is a big deal. Shard falls are safe and give people a 'teaser' into combat without fear of repercussions. They do this so they don't -have- to solo, but they can tell glorious stories about it later!
Some people find 1v1 more fun than shardfall style team combat, and for those people I wouldn't mind seeing some incentives to make it worth doing. I personally find the multitude of different strategies in group combat more appealing, so I would prefer to lead a 4v4 than 1v1.
Group battles = Isolate 1 person and burn them. Rinse and repeat. That's simplified, but true none the less. Especially when you have access to burst damage. See AM.
1v1 = Your investment (system and financially) vs. someone else's investment. That is why I find it more interesting.
With a pre-planned team with pre-made triggers, it becomes even easier with variable assignment and attacks automated. This is a pain only with time dedication and scheduling with others. Otherwise, you just grab random person A and have them spam hinders.
People who were known for fighting back in the day were known for 1v1. Now when I think about fighting someone else, I use "Am I going to get 1 shotted because someone does insane damage before I can touch shield / bulwark" as a deciding factor.
Comments
"On the battlefield I am a god. I love war. The steel, the smell, the corpses. I wish there were more. On the first day I drove the Northmen back alone at the ford. Alone! On the second I carried the bridge! Me! Yesterday I climbed the Heroes! I love war! I… I wish it wasn’t over."
You might be on to something, Khizan.
‘Every sword’s a weight to carry. Men don’t see that when they pick ’em up. But they get heavier with time.”
the claims are stated - it's the world I've created
You have mentioned this every page and in other threads. Like the Veil of Obtenebrate, it will never be nerfed because the cost is absolutely astronomical and the supply is incredibly limited.
Get over it.
As well, we should be encouraging conflict and infiltration methods - the difference here is that a veil helps AVOID conflict, whereas a tracking pet allows you to ENGAGE conflict.
EDIT: Making a city harder to infiltrate will only encourage stagnation. Shardfalls should not be the only source of PK. Cities should be generally safe, not entirely impenetrable. You guys could easily enter our city if you wanted, you just choose not to because your circle is apathy-ridden and more concerned with bemoaning their lot in the scheme of class balance instead of realizing what they have.
They're amusing for one side or the other for a few minutes before they're boring for everyone.
the claims are stated - it's the world I've created
Antioch's lay out is pretty easy to defend. The paranoia inspires people to spam seance on the roadway (they don't decay when the owner isn't there, maybe they should?). Juxtapose doesn't trump masks or track. Depending on ping wars, Azefel is faster than a tentacle tattoo.
The old 'raids' were based around strip combat bonanza. Hood nullifies that for Magick and Demonic. Anti-magick has the best effective ranged strip right now. I guess we could mindlessly throw ourselves into the siege line? Six hours later, Kyrock got a kill.
It's easy to stop.
"On the battlefield I am a god. I love war. The steel, the smell, the corpses. I wish there were more. On the first day I drove the Northmen back alone at the ford. Alone! On the second I carried the bridge! Me! Yesterday I climbed the Heroes! I love war! I… I wish it wasn’t over."
‘Every sword’s a weight to carry. Men don’t see that when they pick ’em up. But they get heavier with time.”
Ideas:
Ability to raid and steal shards from the generator. You're not going to be able to get to the generator, but that's ok. If you design the system right, you can syphon off shards (some voodoo here) remotely. The closer you are, the faster it is. Here you are rewarded for good planning and execution by faster raids and maybe a little extra. You could cap the reward daily and by time. No more than 200 shards per rl day, etc.
The only problems I see arising are that certain organizations have been allowed huge opportunities to greatly altar their layout (Kinsarmar, wut up), while other orgs have been told no (Lol noble's area). If you're going to commit to an 'endorse city raiding system' (which shards and commodities can handle) you need to allow some prep time to allow some organizations to revamp their layouts to be less exploitable. Or..force some cities back to the old configuration. You either need to take a stance of RAIDING IS DUMB AND SLAP WRIST or RAIDING IS A FACT OF LIFE AND A METHOD OF CONFLICT GENERATION.
Mind you, you wouldn't be able to deplete comms or shards to 0, because no one is that dimwitted. There should be a hard cap, because despite the 'realism' factor. Some people just don't have the problem solving ability god cave a termite and it's unfair to have an entire organization fail because you could vote Violet out power fast enough.
Profession based skills can be stopped.
Raksha Band leads to a circular argument. You buy it to escape dying. Then you say you only use it to escape teams. You can and should team to deny the twist. Yay, circles!
There's been more conflict and more involvement in conflict that there has been in years. I'd even say there's more than in the first two years of Imperian. There's ways to pick up fights if you want to. Ask Azefel, he has a newsletter. Iluv too.
Will it be easier for some classes to do this than others? Of course, but that's the nature of having diverse classes. Choose accordingly.