Khizan's Classlead Repository

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  • LionasLionas Member, Historian Posts: 765 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Juran said:
    It's an interesting thought, but a flawed one at the moment since anything that forces hood strip is an advantage to Noctu with their smaller strip pool.

    Though I'm certain pinchaura won't survive the new Noctu in its current incarnation, so perhaps that's less of an issue than my current mindset wants to make it.
    With mind command existing, that also makes Monk the only class capable of forcing someone else to strip their own hood at range.
    I am the righteous one... 
    the claims are stated - it's the world I've created 
  • JuranJuran OhioMember Posts: 909 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Lionas said:
    Juran said:
    It's an interesting thought, but a flawed one at the moment since anything that forces hood strip is an advantage to Noctu with their smaller strip pool.

    Though I'm certain pinchaura won't survive the new Noctu in its current incarnation, so perhaps that's less of an issue than my current mindset wants to make it.
    With mind command existing, that also makes Monk the only class capable of forcing someone else to strip their own hood at range.
    Hood exists to stop strip battles from being a ping war, to stop the unpreventable ranged summons that existed prior to the research. If my current tumble timer counts the same way, I'd be happy to accept a classlead changing SLEEP to stop tumble at any point along the skill instead of only at the end.

    There's a giant difference between vortex, empress, tumble and strip/brazier. If the user has methods to prevent it and choose not to, hood should not be there to back them up.
  • LionasLionas Member, Historian Posts: 765 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Juran said:
    Lionas said:
    Juran said:
    It's an interesting thought, but a flawed one at the moment since anything that forces hood strip is an advantage to Noctu with their smaller strip pool.

    Though I'm certain pinchaura won't survive the new Noctu in its current incarnation, so perhaps that's less of an issue than my current mindset wants to make it.
    With mind command existing, that also makes Monk the only class capable of forcing someone else to strip their own hood at range.
    Hood exists to stop strip battles from being a ping war, to stop the unpreventable ranged summons that existed prior to the research. If my current tumble timer counts the same way, I'd be happy to accept a classlead changing SLEEP to stop tumble at any point along the skill instead of only at the end.

    There's a giant difference between vortex, empress, tumble and strip/brazier. If the user has methods to prevent it and choose not to, hood should not be there to back them up.
    You're confusing two issues. My comment was related to classlead 105. Using telepathy command to force a ranged action would also strip hood.
    I am the righteous one... 
    the claims are stated - it's the world I've created 
  • JuranJuran OhioMember Posts: 909 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Lionas said:
    You're confusing two issues. My comment was related to classlead 105. Using telepathy command to force a ranged action would also strip hood.

    Ah, I see what you're saying. To me it doesn't seem worth changing the weight of ranged combat entirely, short of like I said fixing the method of stopping my tumble/mind crush timer if it's judged too much like strip.

  • AhkanAhkan TexasMember Posts: 2,375 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Juran said:
    Lionas said:
    You're confusing two issues. My comment was related to classlead 105. Using telepathy command to force a ranged action would also strip hood.

    Ah, I see what you're saying. To me it doesn't seem worth changing the weight of ranged combat entirely, short of like I said fixing the method of stopping my tumble/mind crush timer if it's judged too much like strip.

    Clearly it wouldn't, because you benefit from it. (shocked face)

    As already stated, the ranged game can't be entirely removed from the game, despite how boring it is. A good ranged game with less people can break down a gaggle of derps. If this were 350-700 days ago, Juran would regale you with a story from the old days where He, Ashel and Khizan snatched victory from the jaws of defeat with a well played ranged game. Since the game favors AM now, the ranged game is for posers, whiners and indigents (because it would thrash monks). There's clearly a disparity in the ranged game when you look at ranged strips success. Magick and Demonic are rolling a solid 10% while AM is enjoying 70-80%. It has nothing to do with skill. (Though they say it does.) It is all a factor of the ping war between the mind command tumble --- sleep ---mind crush --sleep.

    I like the idea of hood decaying on attacks and movement. It favors the "cluster and hide" so you can team up and prevent the zerg, but it adds an element of risk to ranged attacking that is currently missing. You can pretty much mind command tumble, mind strip, roots whatever without any fear of reprisal because the first attack is always a bust. This makes combat more of a 'timing' thing as opposed to "lets see how many people I can forge to tumble." The point was raised "wah, it favors the defenders." Protip: The defenders always have the advantage (guards). Outside of a city, no one has an advantage. Why? You're both stripping. You both lack hoods. 

    And just to clear up the record here: AM has more/better ranged skills. Monk and Noctu cancel each other out in terms of usefulness. Wardens pick up the slack because they can have infinite arrows. Twinshot, shield throw (dumb), axes. (Let's be honest, AM is a utility juggernaught) Soulspears decay. /sadface. Magick could have a solid ranged game, but their mages suck and roll runeguard because mage is so hard.

    image
  • AbigailAbigail Member Posts: 332 ✭✭✭
    edited March 2013
    Ahkan said:
    Magick could have a solid ranged game, but their mages suck and roll runeguard because mage is so hard.

    Passive-aggressive jabs aside, mage is hard because it blows ****. You will very rarely see a mage be successful in combat without thousands of credits worth of artifacts up their sleeve.

    Mages also have a frighteningly gimped ranged offense that not only punishes them when the enemy touches shield, but also can only be used outdoors.
    Sarrius
  • JuranJuran OhioMember Posts: 909 ✭✭✭✭✭

    If a summon skill is avoidable based on actions of the player and not their ping time, it's hard to argue anything being 'wrong' with that summon skill. Eldreth gets a lot of easy kills for demonic with lust/empress, but that doesn't mean that tarot is overpowered. The same can be said for vortex, devotion deliverance, demon beckon, ritual of summoning, implosion, and other such skills that reward attention and proper reactions.

    If the problem is that force tumble is 'too good' because I can time it to mind crush when I expect you to be sleeping, change tumble to stop itself immediately on sleep. Do that and there will be no distinction between having to stop tumble and having to stop anything else like it.

    As for the bigger picture, you don't see many successful raids because defending is so much easier than attacking. This will continue to be true even without nerfing hood and devaluing the benefits that we gained by its addition.

  • IluvIluv Member Posts: 703 ✭✭✭✭
    Forcing tumble and timing sleep against your mind crush seems very similar to a ping war game.
    image
    Ahkan
  • JuranJuran OhioMember Posts: 909 ✭✭✭✭✭

    It's close, and I'm not against changing tumble to stop immediately to fix it.

    What I am against is overreacting and adding a hood check to everything, making hood strip passively, changing mind command to block tumble entirely, or any of the other suggestions that have made their way between this forum and the classleads.

    If you have three seconds to react to tumble and don't, you deserve to be summoned. The same is true for lust - you have between the time the Noctu lusts you and when they get equilibrium back to reject them and be fine. These are not ping decisions, these are 'knowing how to play the game' decisions.

    IluvAzefel
  • AhkanAhkan TexasMember Posts: 2,375 ✭✭✭✭✭
    That's cool.

    We all support balancing the ranged combat game. I think a good start would be to just remove mind command tumble and start working on making mind strip less stupid. Then everyone is using similar mechanics with similar restrictions.
    image
    Menoch
  • IluvIluv Member Posts: 703 ✭✭✭✭
    Just my opinion but I'm fine with tumble and lust staying as they are. I was a big fan of the ranged combat game too but I won't argue for its return.
    image
  • JuranJuran OhioMember Posts: 909 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I mainly just don't want hood tattoo sold to people as a way to avoid having to learn how to play the game. It's a way to avoid being summoned if your internet is slower than your opponents, and shouldn't really be anything else.

    Druids are the only ones right now that can mass strip, their roots do not have the same restrictions on multiple attackers that pinchaura and mind strip do - but they're also the easiest to stop via damage or shield. We'll have to wait and see what Noctu strip looks like after the revamp to see how it compares.

  • AhkanAhkan TexasMember Posts: 2,375 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I mainly just don't want hood tattoo sold to people as a way to avoid having to learn how to play the game

    Which is how it works now. Welcome to our side of the argument.
    image
  • LionasLionas Member, Historian Posts: 765 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Juran said:

    Druids are the only ones right now that can mass strip, their roots do not have the same restrictions on multiple attackers that pinchaura and mind strip do

    There is a two second cooldown on root attacks.
    I am the righteous one... 
    the claims are stated - it's the world I've created 
    Ellen
  • JuranJuran OhioMember Posts: 909 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 2013

     

    Ahkan said:
    I mainly just don't want hood tattoo sold to people as a way to avoid having to learn how to play the game

    Which is how it works now. Welcome to our side of the argument.


    The only thing Hood stops is the standard pinchaura||RT brazier alias that relies on some combination of luck and ping time to make summoning unavoidable. That's all it should stop, if someone doesn't act on the information at hand, they should get braziered.

  • AhkanAhkan TexasMember Posts: 2,375 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Hood stops pretty much everything but mind command tumble. The reason why is this:


    The hood tattoo tingles briefly as you run your fingers over its surface.
    Equilibrium Taken: 1.73s

    Where you would normally be braziered and killed, you get a freebie. Over...and over...and over...and over. Because of the cooldowns put in on strip skills, you -always- have time (and change) to touch hood before you can have a def stripped again. Anyone who has a linear trigger for hood is 100% immune to pinch/brazier.

    pinchaura||RT brazier --> this is a terrible alias to make. You should know better and be ashamed. 
    image
  • KhizanKhizan Member Posts: 2,648 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Lionas said:
    From classlead 101: Solution #3: As an ADDITION TO the above changes: Allow forced tumble to be stopped by putting yourself to sleep at any point before the tumble completes, regardless of whether you awaken. THIS SHOULD NOT BE THE CHOSEN SOLUTION ON ITS OWN, AS IT DOES NOT ADDRESS THE UNDERLYING IMBALANCE
    Yeah, this doesn't address the underlying problem of "my team is too bad to slap the 'stop me from tumbling' button", but expecting them to hold your hand cause your side can't take directions well is probably a bit over the top.

    "On the battlefield I am a god. I love war. The steel, the smell, the corpses. I wish there were more. On the first day I drove the Northmen back alone at the ford. Alone! On the second I carried the bridge! Me! Yesterday I climbed the Heroes! I love war! I… I wish it wasn’t over."

    Azefel
  • JuranJuran OhioMember Posts: 909 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited April 2013
    CLASSLEAD UPDATE:

    With just ONE classlead to go, these are the ones I have marked yet as uncomplete:

    Report #10
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    Submitted by: Iluv           Status      : Approved
    Skillset    : Malignosis     Skillname   : Daegger hunt
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    Problem:
    Problem: Daegger hunt in its current incarnation suffers from many problems that have never been addressed. First, the daegger toxin giving is random and unreliable. Second, the speed of using Daegger hunt is very slow. With fast statpack, the balance for Daegger hunt is 3.6 seconds which severly hinders the Diabolist affliction speed. Third, daegger hunt lacks in-line envenoming. Fourth, the daegger is stopped by rebounding which Diabolists have no way to remove.

    Report #12
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    Submitted by: Arakis         Status      : Approved
    Skillset    : Sabotage       Skillname   : Arrowcrafting
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    Problem:
    Sabotage users unlike Bowmanship users are unable to make their own bows, making them dependent on shops that sell the type of bow they need, usually from a City/Council shop, or a private store that sells at sometimes arbitrary rates.

    Report #18
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    Submitted by: Eldreth        Status      : Approved
    Skillset    : Noctu          Skillname   : Simulacrum
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    Problem:
    Simulacrum provides a nice mitigation compliment to distortaura, for a class that wears scale and generally settles for small shields. The problem is that for bashing purposes, the device scales poorly with mob damage. It is not uncommon for me to have a brand new simulacrum break before finishing off two high-end orcs or a couple demons. It isn't practical to create a new simulacrum every time I move to a new mob room. Conversely, a def that you simply apply and forget about with no further cost would provide a bit too much benefit in the PK department.

    Report #31
    Submitted by: Aleutia        Status      : Approved
    Skillset    : Taming         Skillname   : Oysters
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    Problem:
    Currently, only someone with the Mage profession can teach an animal to hunt oysters for pearls out of the Taming skillset.

    Report #71
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    Submitted by: Juran          Status      : Approved
    Skillset    : Kanai          Skillname   : Misc
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    Problem:
    The 'finishers' in Kanai like alacrity and supremacy are long term investments in fanatism gain that are easily avoided by an opponent that knows what they are looking for and how to avoid them. Kanai does not significantly reward setup or strategy, because Priest to a large extent lacks either. Instead of functioning as opportunity windows that encourage clever play, the Kanai finishing moves primarily reward dragging a fight along and hoping that an opponent is caught unaware.

    Report #129
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    Submitted by: Ozreas         Status      : Approved
    Skillset    : Wardance       Skillname   : Environment
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    Problem:
    There are a pair of flavor skills in Wardance (Sandburrow, Mirage) which tie the profession to the Shaahri desert. Awesome, that's where it originated in lore, etc. However, in the modern age there are several Ithaquan wardancers, and one of the Ithaquan guilds may be gaining the profession in the future. In light of this, it would be nice to have these two skills, which are ultimately useless as they stand, changed along with some of the profession's flavor text in an effort to facilitate RP of wardancers from multiple regions.

    Report #132
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    Submitted by: Selthis        Status      : Approved
    Skillset    : Necromancy     Skillname   : Animate
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    Problem:
    Some guilds have undeath themed RP, but no way to be cosmetically (no bonuses at all) undead when outside of Diabolist/Deathknight.

    Report #134
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    Submitted by: Ahkan          Status      : Approved
    Skillset    : Malignosis     Skillname   : Ouroboros
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    Problem:
    Many professions that are built around a entity (Wyrmrider, knights, defiler, cleric, etc) are allowed to customize their class based pet. To the best of my knowledge, malignosis ourobori cannot be customized.

    Report #155
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    Submitted by: Sarciossis     Status      : Approved
    Skillset    : Beastmastery   Skillname   : New
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    Problem:
    A predator's hawk can retrieve, but not deliver unless someone learns up to that skill.

    Report #167
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    Submitted by: Sarrius        Status      : Approved
    Skillset    : Spatium        Skillname   : Instill
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    Problem:
    The ability Instill was obviously designed with the intent of sticking a devastating affliction beneath a pile of chaff - or possibly even a bunch of other devastating afflictions. While the ability is interesting and likely has a lot of space to see a lot of cool tricks, one cannot go without noticing that a few afflictions are more devastating than others. In fact, some of these afflictions (namely hemotoxin, asthma, and hypochondria) are on the same herb, and that herb also has a small collection of 'chaff' afflictions that can cover them up if any of them are instilled. This report aims at adjusting the more egregious of offenders: Hypochondria. The affliction acts, for Saboteurs and Renegades, as a provider of backbreaking momentum as some of unique strain of pseudo-permanent hellsight. It just so happens, however, that this 'hellsight' has a lot more powerful afflictions on its table, namely a ton of mental afflictions.

    Report #170
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    Submitted by: Eldreth        Status      : Approved
    Skillset    : Wardance       Skillname   : Kipup
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    Problem:
    Autocure properly registers the kipup skill to a wardancer when prone, but does not recognize a non-wardancer using kipup via the acrobatic boots - autocurer will try to stand instead of kipup.

    Report #173
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    Submitted by: Selthis        Status      : Approved
    Skillset    : Survival       Skillname   : General
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    Problem:
    Autocuring doesn't have a  way to toggle between prioritizing between blind and deaf being healed first.
  • GarrynGarryn Member, Administrator Posts: 527 admin
    12 and 31 are already in.
    Juran
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