City Raiding and Defence

Jeremy SaundersJeremy Saunders Administrator Posts: 1,187 admin
We want to be able to allow raiding to happen in Imperian. It can be fun for both sides, offering ways to engage in PK and defence of your holdings. However, defence of such raids can become very 'not' fun after several hours of sustained death. What we would like to offer players is the opportunity to raid a city to kill an offending player or mangle a few guards, before the main city defences come to bare on the player.

Here are our ideas:

- Cities will gain access to automated archers and psychics that can attack players anywhere in the city.

- Auto defences will only start targeting enemy players when a guard sees them, or a player issues a command that the player is in the city. For players, it will require that the attacker and defender are in the same room. We want players to be able to sneak around if possible.

- Damage from auto defences will build up over time. This means that an enemy player that has just been spotted will only take minimal damage at first. This damage will slowly ramp up over time.

- This damage build up will take several hours to clear. We are tentatively thinking 24 hours. This means a player could raid 'damage free' once per real life day.

- The damage would not be unmanageable and archers would only hit when you are outdoors. However, combined with defender and guard damage, it would be significant.

- Death would not clear the damage build up, only time.

- Players that can enter a city and manage to go undetected will never take damage from these defences.

- We may offer different levels or types of 'defences' for cities that will have varying degrees of upkeep cost that will cost more gold based on damage.

- We will be scaling damage based on two things. One, the time a player has been raiding. Two, the number of targeted enemies in the city. This means a single player or small group could spend more time in the city. A larger group would be seen as a much larger threat to the city and the damage would ramp up faster. The idea is that a large raiding party is seen as a bigger threat and the defences will come to assist much faster.

Please provide some feedback on this idea.

PS: I am working on a Sect/Cult post for later today as well. So save up your rant power.

AmbroseIniarBathanSarriusMathiausKanthariVelion
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Comments

  • IniarIniar AustraliaMember Posts: 3,213 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Not being v experienced with raiding and such, about Veils (of you-can't-ever-find-me), are we maintaining as is, or should there also be a disable effect after a period spent (ma)lingering in enemy territory?
    wit beyond measure is a Sidhe's greatest treasure
  • SarriusSarrius Member, Beta Testers Posts: 1,536 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Hey Jeremy,

    Any thought to the part about assassin classes like Predator and Assassin having an innate resilience to this system? I was rather attached to the idea when Ahkan presented it.

    Also, I would like to see the infiltration mechanics redone in this system. Namely, all of the infiltration skills need to be brought in to full parity and functionality (mask/phase).

    I don't like the idea of a gold based upkeep cost. Maybe shards, generator energy, or commodities of some kind?
  • MathiausMathiaus PennsylvaniaMember Posts: 1,008 ✭✭✭✭
    Sarrius said:

    Hey Jeremy,

    Any thought to the part about assassin classes like Predator and Assassin having an innate resilience to this system? I was rather attached to the idea when Ahkan presented it.

    Also, I would like to see the infiltration mechanics redone in this system. Namely, all of the infiltration skills need to be brought in to full parity and functionality (mask/phase).

    I don't like the idea of a gold based upkeep cost. Maybe shards, generator energy, or commodities of some kind?

    Shards definitely.
    image
  • OzreasOzreas Member, Beta Testers Posts: 197 ✭✭✭
    If shards are used as an upkeep cost for archers, I expect to be getting shot with world-rending, diachaim-infused shard arrows when I get caught rather than those sissy little pedestrian wooden ones.
    SarriusIniar
  • CadeyrnCadeyrn Member Posts: 188 ✭✭✭
    Mathiaus said:
    Hey Jeremy, Any thought to the part about assassin classes like Predator and Assassin having an innate resilience to this system? I was rather attached to the idea when Ahkan presented it. Also, I would like to see the infiltration mechanics redone in this system. Namely, all of the infiltration skills need to be brought in to full parity and functionality (mask/phase). I don't like the idea of a gold based upkeep cost. Maybe shards, generator energy, or commodities of some kind?
    Shards definitely.
    Not shards.

     I'd prefer to see generator energy.

    Smaller circles can have bountiful access to corpses, they do not get free access to shards.
  • KhizanKhizan Member Posts: 2,648 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 2013

    Jeremy said:
    PS: I am working on a Sect/Cult post for later today as well. So save up your rant power.

      Don't worry, I've got plenty! 

    When you say "The damage would not be unmanageable", what exactly do you mean? The discrepancy between sides is such that a moderate damage aura wouldn't have been a major deterrent to the raids that AM was holding on Kinsarmar, because the Kinsarmarians aren't capable of beating them even with the assistance.

    Figure that any successful guardrush is going to have enough guards in it to curbstomp the room. So damage+guards isn't going to be anymore of a deterrent than guards are, though I suppose that the aura may make smaller clots safer, depending on how fast it ramps up and where it starts at.

    • I'd like to see the damage ramp up to the unmanageable point given enough time, to serve as a "hard enrage" on city raids. This would prevent the constant occupation raiding we see now, where AM could spend 6 hours in Kinsarmar because a manageable damage aura isn't enough to let the 4 non-fighters in Kinsarmar beat the raid team.
    • I'd like you to allow cities to make a few small changes to their layout with defenses in mind.
    • I'd really like to limit a lot of the ways/access into cities. Right now there's so many things like Mark Return, and twistrings that it's basically impossible to keep people out of the city. The best you can hope for is dropping guards on the spot you think their mark is.
    • Guards should penetrate numbness, because the "Let's tank the entire clot with a Diabolist/Monk" thing is stupid. I'd also like it if guards got splash damage on some of their attacks. Throwing the damage around a bit more will help make smaller clots much more feasible and a lot harder to graveyard zerg.

    "On the battlefield I am a god. I love war. The steel, the smell, the corpses. I wish there were more. On the first day I drove the Northmen back alone at the ford. Alone! On the second I carried the bridge! Me! Yesterday I climbed the Heroes! I love war! I… I wish it wasn’t over."

    AhkanKanthari
  • AhkanAhkan TexasMember Posts: 2,375 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I know this shocks you, but I agree with Khiz. I'd also add:

    On his last point, I'd add more guard types. We do not use these. Guards with new abilities like splash and non-physical damage types would be amazing. I'd even introduce a straight healer guard whose sole job is to heal the lowest health guard in the room. God, a fear guard. Please. Honestly, a guard AI improvement would be amazing. #pipedream

    Constable:  Slow movement, Slow attack speed, Weak strength
    Soldier  :  Medium movement, Slow attack speed, Medium strength
    Warrior  :  Medium movement, Medium attack speed, High strength

    -Deaths to archers/telepaths/guards need to clear champion status to remove the xp loss block. 
    -Deaths also need to clear mark return/raksha band, but not shard mark.
    -Death damage malus needs to apply to guards.

    As far as upkeep, I'd make it a hybrid upkeep
    -Shards
    -Comms iron, food, wood, etc.
    -Gold
    image
    KanthariSeraphyne
  • Jeremy SaundersJeremy Saunders Administrator Posts: 1,187 admin
    Khizan said:

    Jeremy said:
    PS: I am working on a Sect/Cult post for later today as well. So save up your rant power.

      Don't worry, I've got plenty! 

    When you say "The damage would not be unmanageable", what exactly do you mean? The discrepancy between sides is such that a moderate damage aura wouldn't have been a major deterrent to the raids that AM was holding on Kinsarmar, because the Kinsarmarians aren't capable of beating them even with the assistance.

    Figure that any successful guardrush is going to have enough guards in it to curbstomp the room. So damage+guards isn't going to be anymore of a deterrent than guards are, though I suppose that the aura may make smaller clots safer, depending on how fast it ramps up and where it starts at.

    • I'd like to see the damage ramp up to the unmanageable point given enough time, to serve as a "hard enrage" on city raids. This would prevent the constant occupation raiding we see now, where AM could spend 6 hours in Kinsarmar because a manageable damage aura isn't enough to let the 4 non-fighters in Kinsarmar beat the raid team.
    • I'd like you to allow cities to make a few small changes to their layout with defenses in mind.
    • I'd really like to limit a lot of the ways/access into cities. Right now there's so many things like Mark Return, and twistrings that it's basically impossible to keep people out of the city. The best you can hope for is dropping guards on the spot you think their mark is.
    • Guards should penetrate numbness, because the "Let's tank the entire clot with a Diabolist/Monk" thing is stupid. I'd also like it if guards got splash damage on some of their attacks. Throwing the damage around a bit more will help make smaller clots much more feasible and a lot harder to graveyard zerg.
    Feedback:
    • I have had a couple people say that damage should slowly ramp up to where you just cannot stay in the city or you will die. I am actually semi leaning that way now.
    • I am not against minor changes to layout. I hate the way some of the cities are laid out anyways.
    • I was thinking we could put in a way for certain skills to be detected by the telepaths when the player enters the city. (Upkeep cost probably)
    • I am not against adding some new guard types that have splash damage.

  • Jeremy SaundersJeremy Saunders Administrator Posts: 1,187 admin
    Ahkan said:
    I know this shocks you, but I agree with Khiz. I'd also add:

    On his last point, I'd add more guard types. We do not use these. Guards with new abilities like splash and non-physical damage types would be amazing. I'd even introduce a straight healer guard whose sole job is to heal the lowest health guard in the room. God, a fear guard. Please. Honestly, a guard AI improvement would be amazing. #pipedream

    Constable:  Slow movement, Slow attack speed, Weak strength
    Soldier  :  Medium movement, Slow attack speed, Medium strength
    Warrior  :  Medium movement, Medium attack speed, High strength

    -Deaths to archers/telepaths/guards need to clear champion status to remove the xp loss block. 
    -Deaths also need to clear mark return/raksha band, but not shard mark.
    -Death damage malus needs to apply to guards.

    As far as upkeep, I'd make it a hybrid upkeep
    -Shards
    -Comms iron, food, wood, etc.
    -Gold

    Yeah, I think I am good with some new guard types, or rethinking the less used ones.

    I'll note down the rest of your suggestions. I am good with most of this.

  • Jeremy SaundersJeremy Saunders Administrator Posts: 1,187 admin
    Sarrius said:
    Hey Jeremy, Any thought to the part about assassin classes like Predator and Assassin having an innate resilience to this system? I was rather attached to the idea when Ahkan presented it. Also, I would like to see the infiltration mechanics redone in this system. Namely, all of the infiltration skills need to be brought in to full parity and functionality (mask/phase). I don't like the idea of a gold based upkeep cost. Maybe shards, generator energy, or commodities of some kind?
    Yes, these skills would have to be adjusted to work with these changes. I like those classes being able to infiltrate cities better.

    Sarrius
  • BathanBathan Member Posts: 1,056 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I like the overall idea that, through being clever and catching someone unawares, you can perform a surgical strike to take someone out. After that though, you need to get to steppin', and let the good people of the world enjoy their houses and guildhalls. 

    My two cents.
    ‘Least I won’t have to carry it no more. You see how bloody heavy it is?’

    ‘Every sword’s a weight to carry. Men don’t see that when they pick ’em up. But they get heavier with time.”
    Jeremy SaundersKanthariAhkanSarrius
  • SarriusSarrius Member, Beta Testers Posts: 1,536 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Jeremy said:

    I'll note down the rest of your suggestions. I am good with most of this.
    Which part isn't kosher? I'm curious.
  • Jeremy SaundersJeremy Saunders Administrator Posts: 1,187 admin
    Nothing in particular, I just need to mull them over a bit.

  • SarriusSarrius Member, Beta Testers Posts: 1,536 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I was going to hazard a guess at 'Raksha Bands being changed', actually. This isn't in their defense, but I know that their high cost makes any changes of them a very volatile subject.
  • JuranJuran OhioMember Posts: 909 ✭✭✭✭✭
    One of the biggest 'problems' with designing an adequate city defense is that fast movement has no realistic counters. The aggro timer before a mob attacks a player on entrance is too slow, and trenches are countered by dashing.

    A few alternative solutions:
    - Check and act on mob aggression immediately upon entering instead of on the next server tick.
    - Stop dashing at trenches, rather than through them.
    - Add an 'assassin' guard type that adds traps against city enemies that are independent of player traps
    - Turn the warrior guard type into a sentry that prevents enemies from moving past him in a designated direction until killed

    The warrior/assassin options would work best if you had to order the guard to act to start the process of defending/trapping a particular exit, so that you couldn't just rush the guy in and instantly prevent an entire group of raiders from leaving.
  • Jeremy SaundersJeremy Saunders Administrator Posts: 1,187 admin
    @Juran I like those ideas as well.

  • KhizanKhizan Member Posts: 2,648 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Now that I have more time, a few more specific notes on the current guard issues.

    I hit an elite knight for about ~17% of its max health. In exchange, that elite knight hits me for 37 damage. Six of me can kill a guard in one round. I need to be hit by 15 guards at once to die in one round. Any less than that and there's a very good chance I can escape, and so you need 20 guards at a minimum in a clot for it to really be effective against even a single person, since there are people who are even tankier than me.  So, the minimum effective group is a full fifth of your available guards. 

    And with that in mind, a reasonably sized group of us can clear out a 20-25 guard clot very effectively. One death each, maaaybe two. Quite possibly less; we cleared 18 guards with no major losses at all. So you're probably talking 30+ guards, as things are now, so basically a third of your guards.

    So guards reporting to activate the defenses isn't going to be a thing that happens often without some changes to the capability of guards. We just don't have enough of them to scatter around in the numbers they'd need to be scattered in. This problem is amplified by the way guards respond. Specifically, if you call for help next to 100 guards, you get five them. This basically just feeds your guards into the grinder bit by bit. "Call for help" is worse than useless; it is actively harmful.

    And, in a way, this ties into another problem. Guards are unwieldy as hell and awful to deal with. This is the lines from moving one guard:

    You order an elite Diavlous Knight to move to the w.
    A black armored figure stomps out to the west, his helmed head swiveling as he appraises all threats.

    If I move 50 guards, I get 100 lines of that. Per room. And in addition to the spam, this makes it really easy to accidentally split up guards, only move a chunk of them, etc. And so, here is my idea:

    Squads: I would really really like it if you had a way to clump guards up into squads that would move together as a unit.  This would make guards much easier to order and move around, and it would also open up some other things.

    One thing I'd really like to see is a functional patrol. Let me set a series of rooms as waypoints, and the guard squad will just path around to each waypoint in turn. This would let me cover more area with larger guard clots. I could set a path so that the guards would go from, say, the Stavenn arena up through the shops, check in a Niccolo, go to the Ephor chamber door, and then head back to the arena to repeat. If the guards move at a decent clip and the entire squad responds to a call for help, this has just MASSIVELY increased my guard coverage and guards might actually be of help if somebody gets jumped and manages to live long enough to call for help a few times.

    "On the battlefield I am a god. I love war. The steel, the smell, the corpses. I wish there were more. On the first day I drove the Northmen back alone at the ford. Alone! On the second I carried the bridge! Me! Yesterday I climbed the Heroes! I love war! I… I wish it wasn’t over."

    AmbroseAhkanIluv
  • Jeremy SaundersJeremy Saunders Administrator Posts: 1,187 admin
    Okay, so let me see what you are thinking.
    • Increase guard damage so that guards can be spread out more.
      • My only worry here is just making it impossible to raid. You enter a room with 10 guards and instantly die. Although, maybe it should be that way. We could make it so that guards just do not attack at the same time. Some will attack right when you enter, some a couple seconds later. I will have to think about that. That means raiding would have to take place via sneaking instead of just getting a group and rushing. Although, I suppose that depends on the damage increase.
    • With guards spread out more, it will be easier for them to find intruders and report them to auto defs.
      • That is good. I hate that parts of cities are permanently closed because they cannot be guarded.
    • Create squads of guards for easier movement.
      • Will do this. I think we will probably make it so you can name the patrols to whatever you want. Gold squad, Demon squad, Butt Kisser squad, whatever.
    • Create a way for guards to patrol.
      • Will do this as well. Again, this should hopefully allow for cities to be more open and larger. I think it would be easiest for players if we allowed cities to create patrol paths, and then assign squads to that path.

    Thoughts?

    CaelyaIniar
  • AhkanAhkan TexasMember Posts: 2,375 ✭✭✭✭✭
    If you're worried about cities being unraidable you can reduce the number of guards the same time you release new guard types, squads, and patrols.

    Then the responsibility is on the infiltrator to make sure he's dodging squads and patrols, like Dishonored (which was awesome. You should play it).
    image
    MathiausVelion
  • CadeyrnCadeyrn Member Posts: 188 ✭✭✭
    I like the idea of having a patrolling squad or two around each City. However, this squad needs to -

    Break all walls in their way

    Automatically attempt to stay together (or rejoin each other)

    Have some sort of CC that is regular/dependable

    Be able to take down your average raider in 1 round of damage - probably have to increase damage numbers as they are now, maybe have only a few guard types do damage and a few others that only do other tasks. Building a squad would require a minimum of x damage guards to start patrolling, perhaps.

    Be able to intelligently respond to calls for help - if you give the squad a key, they can use it.
  • TahirahTahirah Member Posts: 102 ✭✭✭
    I don't view raids as a thing that should be easy to do without the ability of sneaking/scouting around. I don't care how tanky any players are, there has never been any person who survived ten arrows to the knee in an enemy city. But his sneaky buddy went in and did his business and left just fine. So +1 to increasing guard damage.
    (Only if we keep voting!)
  • SarriusSarrius Member, Beta Testers Posts: 1,536 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Cadeyrn said:
    I like the idea of having a patrolling squad or two around each City. However, this squad needs to -

    Break all walls in their way

    Automatically attempt to stay together (or rejoin each other)

    Have some sort of CC that is regular/dependable

    Be able to take down your average raider in 1 round of damage - probably have to increase damage numbers as they are now, maybe have only a few guard types do damage and a few others that only do other tasks. Building a squad would require a minimum of x damage guards to start patrolling, perhaps.

    Be able to intelligently respond to calls for help - if you give the squad a key, they can use it.
    So just to be on the same page with you here, you want raids to be basically impossible? You want a guard grid to be 'set and forget' and do all the work of defense for you?
    Ahkan
  • AhkanAhkan TexasMember Posts: 2,375 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I think what he's saying is: "Stop the cheese that AM used to raid Kinsarmar last time." I'd say he's pretty spot on. He just gets sidetracked some spots.

    Non infiltration classes should not be able to hit and run or hit and fly guards. To be honest, neither should infiltration classes. This is pretty common sense. Walk into a bar and punch the baddest looking mofo in the face. Try to make it out of the bar. Also have Lalitana video tape this. I'd watch it. Please. Do this. Back on point, this is why he's suggesting CC. Istani webs are subject to RNG. I'd pay 20k for web-bot novice guard. You know why? It stops cheesing my guards.

    Guard damage type needs to be looked at. Why don't our city guards try to mimic our game environment? You'd think in nearly a thousand years we'd have taught some city guards some new tricks like shoot fire, throw meteors, chill, incinerate. Why are the best two guard types either electric/web or most resisted damage type ever. 

    One thing he's completely right about is there's some serious derp surrounding the use of shard walls and the interaction with siege. Walls stop bolts and nets, this is a given. Cannons have always shot through these walls destroying them. Not so much with shard walls. Cannon balls go through the wall (like magick), while bolts do not.

    We all know guard movement/reaction time is ****. That's why it's standard protocol to 'order guard standguard permament.' I thought this was common knowledge. Guards down't move as groups (like normal military, police response units). They meander around and enter 1 at a time like the freaking foot clan. Shocker they get cheesed so easily.

    I am also a huge fan of a bad guy should not be able to take on a squad of guards without being very good. This is why super villains are super villains.

    Not a big fan of squads with keys. Security ministers should have keys. That's a bit to dumbed down for me.

    Not really a big fan of generic wall breaking. Totally ok with 'give ram to guard' and SWAT teaming your way into a house. Would lol.


    image
  • KhizanKhizan Member Posts: 2,648 ✭✭✭✭✭

    As far as walls go, I'd like to see a dedicated Engineer guard. Low damage, good health. Plants sapping charges on walls when he tries to move through one and gets blocked by it(special super sapping charges that even blow down shard walls). Gets increased rate-of-fire when manning siege weapons.

    There needs to be some way for guards to take down walls because literally everybody who joins a city gains the ability to instantly throw up a wall. There's not much point in bothering to set up patrolling guards if the patrol can be trivially blocked out by flinging up a wall on the patrol route before making your move.

    As far as houses go, I'd love the ability to give guards a ram and order them to break in a door/wall. The command would be announced over CT somehow(something like "(Stavenn): An elite Diavlous Knight says, "Yes sir, Khizan! Squad, break down the door at <location>!") and have the order logged in the city logs to help prevent abuse of powers to enter private houses. Then have the busted door removed from the house when the guards breach it. It would also be cool if the guards would instantly swarm in all SWAT style when the door went down. 


    "On the battlefield I am a god. I love war. The steel, the smell, the corpses. I wish there were more. On the first day I drove the Northmen back alone at the ford. Alone! On the second I carried the bridge! Me! Yesterday I climbed the Heroes! I love war! I… I wish it wasn’t over."

    Iniar
  • IniarIniar AustraliaMember Posts: 3,213 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Off-topic but fun 2-am brain idea. If you're making pathing for guards, could we then have (gaspshockhorror) squads path to Townes? That's a lot of potential PK-reason fun there but should avoid the pitfalls surrounding the current guard system (is being expensive)
    wit beyond measure is a Sidhe's greatest treasure
  • Jeremy SaundersJeremy Saunders Administrator Posts: 1,187 admin
    I am pretty much done coding squads and patrols. Just working on their movement issues.
    • Right now it will be fairly basic. I will not allow them to move through locked doors or icewalls. Until we can feel it out a bit more.
    • Squads will have a leader and all guards assigned to that squad will automatically move to the leader, one room per second.
    • If the squad leader dies a new one is assigned automatically. Players can also set squad leaders.
    • You will be able to hire guards directly into a squad, so they will move to their squad leader right after you hire them.
    • You will be able to set how fast squads move to waypoints and also how long they wait at a waypoint before moving to the next one.
    • I am working on a way to auto hire entire squads. For example, maybe I want my Gold Squad to have 5 archers and a knight. I login and notice some have been killed. I can enter a command that will hire them all at once and have them move to their guard position, or start patrolling.
    • All the lists have been cleaned up so you can easily see where your guards are, if the are in a squad, if they are patrolling, etc.
    • Probably a couple other things I have forgotten. 
    I will try to get this loaded up tomorrow morning probably. I would like to get a couple other things looking good and then test it for a bit.

    BathanIniarSvoraiIluv
  • BathanBathan Member Posts: 1,056 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Awesome turn around on this, btw. Thanks!
    ‘Least I won’t have to carry it no more. You see how bloody heavy it is?’

    ‘Every sword’s a weight to carry. Men don’t see that when they pick ’em up. But they get heavier with time.”
    IniarIluv
  • KhizanKhizan Member Posts: 2,648 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 2013
    No. Firstly, pathing to townes is a great way to get a single squad caught in the middle of nowhere with no real support, so nobody would do it. Secondly, what with the towne placement of  various cities, it would be a great way to get do to things like "shardfalls with guard support"
    Jeremy said:
    Okay, so let me see what you are thinking.
    • Increase guard damage so that guards can be spread out more.
      • My only worry here is just making it impossible to raid. You enter a room with 10 guards and instantly die. Although, maybe it should be that way. We could make it so that guards just do not attack at the same time. Some will attack right when you enter, some a couple seconds later. I will have to think about that. That means raiding would have to take place via sneaking instead of just getting a group and rushing. Although, I suppose that depends on the damage increase.

    That's something that could happen, true. But look at things right now. Khizan/Eldreth/Juran/Aulani/Iluv/Azefel can kill a guard in one round of combat, so if we do "e|kill guard" all at the same time, we're guaranteed at least one kill. Guaranteed. Our worst case scenario is trading one death each for one guard. Our worst case scenario trades one death for 5,000 of the enemy's gold.  If we're doing this off hours and you have a group of 30 guards, it breaks down like this:

    • Cost to us: Nothing of value. 
    • Cost to the city: 900,000 gold. 

    Let's say that after we do this, Antioch doubles down. All one hundred guards! One clot at the Shuk! 

    • Cost to us: Nothing of value
    • Cost to the city: 3,000,000 gold.

    This is the problem with guards. Any decently sized group can zerg them down for a cost of "nothing special, really".

    If you can prevent this, you've basically made it impossible to raid. If you cannot prevent this, you've basically made it impossible to defend.

    Cities SHOULD require stealth and sneakiness to raid. That or lightning raids against specific targets. Get in, get out, wham bam thank you ma'am. The protracted raid is exactly the kind of thing we want to get rid of, after all.

    "On the battlefield I am a god. I love war. The steel, the smell, the corpses. I wish there were more. On the first day I drove the Northmen back alone at the ford. Alone! On the second I carried the bridge! Me! Yesterday I climbed the Heroes! I love war! I… I wish it wasn’t over."

  • SarriusSarrius Member, Beta Testers Posts: 1,536 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The entire point of asking for defense upgrades was, yes, to destroy the protracted 'grief' raid. At this rate, I would be more interested in making that sort of raid impossible. Why? Because then we can open up discussion about towne conflict.

    Entry in to the city to kill one or two players? Yes, should be very possible. Defenses should be alerted upon aggression or a guard spotting you. Entry in to the city to kill guards, destroy property? I don't see this as popular. Kinsarmar didn't have fun. Antioch doesn't care about the level of loss we have suffered on that front, but we would prefer to not have lost it. I imagine Stavenn didn't really like it when we killed ~19-20 guards.

    In the end, according to most players, cities need to be defended utterly against protracted raids and it should be difficult to infiltrate a city and stay inside for extended periods. In an infiltration review, we can probably fix the issue of easy break in skills so guilds can use their guildhall and sects can use their temple.
    BathanKanthari
  • AhkanAhkan TexasMember Posts: 2,375 ✭✭✭✭✭
    You could have just used the agree button :(
    image
    Bathan
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