City Novicehood

Jeremy SaundersJeremy Saunders Administrator Posts: 1,186 admin
Something we have been batting around for a while, which we are going to do, is move from a guild novicehood system, to a city novicehood system. This is just in the planning stages, so we have not gone very far, but the basic ideas is this.

The main purpose is to have a larger draw of helpers online all the time. It is also possible for us to maintain specific newbie quests and tasks per org this way.

1. Remove the position and commands from guilds.
2. Add a city position to the cities.
3. People that have that position will be able to look at newbie score, commands, etc in order to help them.
4. Add city specific quests/tasks for each city.

City = Council as well.

Outside of that, we have done very little planning outside of batting the idea around. I am pretty sure we want to do it, however I would like some input from you guys before we really get going on it.

Thoughts? Ideas? Comments?

Tagged:
BathanAkumuAulaniLalitanaSvoraiSarriusSelthis

Comments

  • KhizanKhizan Member Posts: 2,648 ✭✭✭✭✭

    This is something that should have been done a long time ago.

    Another thing I'd like to see happen along this line is the removal of guild/profession affiliations. At this point, there's really no need for it at all.



    "On the battlefield I am a god. I love war. The steel, the smell, the corpses. I wish there were more. On the first day I drove the Northmen back alone at the ford. Alone! On the second I carried the bridge! Me! Yesterday I climbed the Heroes! I love war! I… I wish it wasn’t over."

    Selthis
  • LalitanaLalitana Member Posts: 208 ✭✭✭
    This seems to be the next step in a trend to further reduce the power and influence of guilds.

    I was going to make an argument about the need for novices to learn about their profession(s) from fellow guild members, but this doesn't prevent that from happening - and if handled properly, cuts the head off of the old-school novice mentality that just won't die.

    I'd be concerned that some guilds would try to bring back the idea of being on probation (or just being flatly denied advancement) until you slay Hrimdeyr and write a poem about it in iambic pentameter, then cover all of Celidon in glitter.
  • SarriusSarrius Member, Beta Testers Posts: 1,526 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Will this be closer to the collegium system in Lusternia, or the new system they're fooling around with in Aetolia?

    Either way, I approve.
  • SelthisSelthis Member Posts: 524 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited August 2013
    With the profession changes, please just make every novice have every profession at tri inept  and make one of the first newbie tasks a question and answer session to help determine what class they want to play and then tailor the experience from there. Also, make the guild choice one of the later steps of the newbie experience, and encourage guilds to get the whole roleplaying thing as the focus.

    There should be be no reason for apprenticeship really aside from very niche cases,  we've basically ensured that someone can get all the professions anyway. So why not just make it automatic if you're in a circle related org (city/council/guild) you automatically get all the professions associated with that circle.  I guess still  make people able to be apprenticed for the people who don't want  to join a guild or a city. 

    But either way, I think this whole thing is a great idea and something I've been wanting to see for a while. Guilds should be about roleplay, not about profession.  

    This will mean guilds need to be active and interesting to get people as members.

    Edit: It will make guilds largely symbolic moreso than anything.  Also maybe once a person has achieved Master rank in their profession automatically gets  favoured to a voting rank. That way, I can either do all the work and be able to vote or  I can just learn out do it and no one can  hold voting hostage.   

    Edit 2: Just remove probation from guilds totally. If you want to keep stuff secret, that is why there are clans.
    SvoraiAzefelSarrius
  • KhizanKhizan Member Posts: 2,648 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Lalitana said:
    I was going to make an argument about the need for novices to learn about their profession(s) from fellow guild members

      This doesn't really apply anymore; in many cases, your guild members aren't using the professions associated with the guild, or they're using one of the guild's professions that has nothing to do with the guild's other professions and they know nothing about it. 


    "On the battlefield I am a god. I love war. The steel, the smell, the corpses. I wish there were more. On the first day I drove the Northmen back alone at the ford. Alone! On the second I carried the bridge! Me! Yesterday I climbed the Heroes! I love war! I… I wish it wasn’t over."

  • SarriusSarrius Member, Beta Testers Posts: 1,526 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Selthis said:

    Edit: It will make guilds largely symbolic moreso than anything.  Also maybe once a person has achieved Master rank in their profession automatically gets  favoured to a voting rank. That way, I can either do all the work and be able to vote or  I can just learn out do it and no one can  hold voting hostage.   

    People still do this?
  • SelthisSelthis Member Posts: 524 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Sarrius said:
    People still do this?
    I honestly don't know, but I figure its best to  cover the bases really. 
  • Jeremy SaundersJeremy Saunders Administrator Posts: 1,186 admin
    Thanks for the feedback thus far.

  • DyrrenDyrren Member Posts: 35
    On the whole, I rather like it.  Personally, I'll be inviting kiddies to the arena so they can test out their skills as soon as they announce over CT.

    I might ask that city novice aides be allowed into local novice areas to assist in guidance.

    Also, I ask that HELP GUILDNOVICES <guild> get pointed out somewhere in the new system, so that guilds can properly communicate requirements outside of their GHELP files.

    I don't like the added load to CT, but what else can you do with years of work to castrate guilds?

  • LionasLionas Member, Historian Posts: 765 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Dyrren said:

    I don't like the added load to CT, but what else can you do with years of work to castrate guilds?

    I'm sure they'll add CNT.
    I am the righteous one... 
    the claims are stated - it's the world I've created 
  • SelthisSelthis Member Posts: 524 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Dyrren said:
    I don't like the added load to CT, but what else can you do with years of work to castrate guilds?

    With the number of guilds doing stuff that deserves castration is it hard to understand why they'd want to eliminate  the crazy powertrips that some of the guilds have been on to make the game more approachable for new players?
  • DyrrenDyrren Member Posts: 35

    Selthis said:
    With the number of guilds doing stuff that deserves castration is it hard to understand why they'd want to eliminate  the crazy powertrips that some of the guilds have been on to make the game more approachable for new players?
    Eh, I'm not against busting up incompetent systems.  Because they're incompetent.

    However, any system can be incompetent, and to claim the entire system as inherently wrong denies the efforts of everyone who was able to pull it off right.  This change seems to be the next step in recreating the guild environment of the days of yore, only with cities and a bunch more shiny professions for you to get bored with.

    Make no mistake, I'm good with the change.  It was necessary since guilds have been made largely irrelevant by removing any service they might provide.
  • AhkanAhkan TexasMember Posts: 2,375 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The problem with guilds is that there is constant and inevitable turn over. 

    Saboteurs were big time when the game opened. Now they're dead last. They're DOA. There are also people that play/have played this game that exist to kill guilds. Lorekeepers, Ansheri and the attempt at the Noctusari. There's also a culture of people who actively move into broken down guilds and take over so they can make a little club house for all of their friends, with little regard for the members. It's best if we move any sort of newbie raising away from this and put it where there's usually (hopefully) more over sight and 'good' involvement.
    image
  • AleutiaAleutia Member, Historian Posts: 363 ✭✭✭✭✭
    If we're essentially gutting guilds, I'd like to see more than one city rank added to the whole. Seven total feels low. I'm not saying give us twenty, but if we're going to see more people involved (hopefully) org-wise I think it would be nice to have a larger number.
    (Plus I like brainstorming up ranks, shut up)
                                                   image
    Dicene
  • LabilLabil Member Posts: 355 ✭✭✭
    Aleutia is a bureaucrat at heart, but one of those rare breeds that are efficient.
    AleutiaKanthariIniarAhkan
  • AmbroseAmbrose TexasMember Posts: 197 ✭✭✭
    I really like the idea of a city novice hood - I think it makes the game more approachable and tears down that internal conflict of a novice about who to serve more... Honestly, I think the guild system should die on some level. I don't think having different paths within a city is a bad idea (have your defenders, historians, teachers, etc.) and let those serve as 'guilds,' but let the current incarnation die. Maybe have the novice choose a guild once they graduate from novicehood or something along those lines? But having guilds loosely associated with cities where you have to split allegiance is a bad move. And regarding current head of novices losing their spots or whatnot - you aren't losing an influx of players in each city, so the workload remains the same... just consolidated into one organization... seems like having a few designated novice aide coordinators might not be a bad idea?
  • AleutiaAleutia Member, Historian Posts: 363 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Random brain dumping:

    - Remove professions listings in guilds, and throw them on CW
    - Really I would just do away with guilds at this point but not my call
    - I would add five ranks of guilds if we're going to strictly RP based: initiate, non-voting member, voting member, secretary, GM. To get kicked from non-voting to voting, base it on what @Selthis said, master of profession (1500 lessons in the profession now if I understand right? Once you hit 1500 lessons in the profession you are automatically promoted)
    - Switch the intro and introduce the org first, and then the guild (But really I assume at this rate the intro would get rewritten all over again)
    - Since guilds are going RP based, remove guild-health. It's a pointless mechanic of 'who can idle the longest' 99% of the time.
    - Give specially privileged people in guilds access to guild mob shells. I know a lot of terrible can arise from this. A lot of awesome can too.
    - In this vein let us cycle out mobs more easily in guilds to make them feel more lively

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    MenochAhkan
  • BelkethBelketh Member Posts: 5
    Midkemia Online removed guild novicehood in favor of city novicehood and it worked greatly for them. There are far more people in each city than there are in any guild at any given time. I am currently going through novicehood here and the help I have received thus far has been fantastic, I thought I would just add that information.
    Svorai
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