Classleads, Oct 2012

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Comments

  • LionasLionas Member, Historian Posts: 765 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 2012
    Kryss said:
    Bathan said:
    The more I think about the battlecry change, the more I like it. Diavlous and Lorekeepers can now go strong with essentially no penalty (aside from the tiny mana pool which Clerics/Malignists, IE no one could abuse) and enjoy what really is some sweet high claymore damage.
    Just as a small note, I believe the damage from sap and yellow ink smite are purely percentage based. So even if these two classes were in fashion, it wouldn't really be much of a reason to dissuade someone from going strong.
    Sap, enervate, leech, etc have a static component, plus a percentile one.
    I am the righteous one... 
    the claims are stated - it's the world I've created 
  • OhmOhm Member Posts: 234 ✭✭✭
    edited October 2012

    Probably late for this round and it maybe a terrible idea but I'll throw it out there anyways

    Is a mana-burn type staffcast for mages likely to be too powerful? I was thinking about it, just to give mages a viable kill method outside retardation.

    Essentially dissolution could become a mana burn attack equivalent a 15-20% mana drain per hit outside of retardation.

    image
  • SarriusSarrius Member Posts: 1,319 ✭✭✭✭
    What would the purpose be, besides to make Mages and Druids more powerful together?
  • RagnarRagnar Member Posts: 173 ✭✭✭
    Such was my thought. Another mana drain Druids do not need.

  • AshtonAshton Member Posts: 14
    I have a lot of really simple ideas for runes to help flesh it out. I have no doubt that many of them are crap, but I was wondering - would this be an appropriate place to post them, and let you guys tear them apart and see if any are worth remembering?

  • BathanBathan Member Posts: 1,056 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I think we'll all be glad to hurt your feelings. Go for it!
    ‘Least I won’t have to carry it no more. You see how bloody heavy it is?’

    ‘Every sword’s a weight to carry. Men don’t see that when they pick ’em up. But they get heavier with time.”
  • AshtonAshton Member Posts: 14
    edited October 2012
    I can't pretend to understand the balance of the game yet since I'm fairly new, and I don't know if it has been addressed, and frankly I don't really know terribly much about runelore yet,  but I can brainstorm some ideas and allow them to be used/balanced/restructured/mocked at will in response to the original post:

    Combat runes
    A rune that will cause permanent recklessness to everyone (including the person who sketched it) in the room while active.
    A rune the periodically causes a short blackout.
    A rune that knocks people prone occasionally (this could be useful for the new battlecry?)
    A rune does %current health damage (some small percent, like 5%)
    A rune that periodically (or maybe only when entering, so it stops quick movement) knocks people off balance or equilibrium for a short duration (1s or something)
    A rune that increases damage, but causes some damage to be reflected (IE gives +10% damage, but 10% of all damage you deal is done back to you)

    If you want more utility runes
    A rune that increases experience gained.
    A rune that causes the room to be 'engulfed in darkness'
    A rune that keeps the room from being 'engulfed in darkness'
    A rune that pulls all players from adjacent rooms periodically.
    A rune that pulls fliers from the sky.
    A rune that stops ranged attacks from entering the room.
    A rune that stops players from entering phase in this particular room (but they can still BE phased)
    A rune/etching that changes the type of damage a weapon deals (doesn't necessarily increase it, just changes its type)
    An etching that causes enemies to occasionally drop an ink of a random color when they die.
    An etching that saps health/mana? (maybe it heals/gives mana back to the person attacking for 5% of the damage they deal or something)
    An etching that fully heals the person using the equipment after killing an enemy (not a mob, but another player)


  • SarriusSarrius Member Posts: 1,319 ✭✭✭✭
    Those are all fantastic ideas, but we're trying to make Runelore active/useful in base and highly mobile combat. Some of those have tangible combat benefits, but don't really match up against 'chow down on a rite, produce high mental damage on a target'  - considering damage is just the way to go these days in most conflict mechanics.
  • AshtonAshton Member Posts: 14
    Okay, I'll think of more mobile things for runelore. Also, I don't think I understand the second part of what you said. Are you looking for more damage-based runelore stuff?
  • JuranJuran OhioMember, Beta Testers Posts: 909 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 2012
    Sarrius said:
    Those are all fantastic ideas, but we're trying to make Runelore active/useful in base and highly mobile combat. Some of those have tangible combat benefits, but don't really match up against 'chow down on a rite, produce high mental damage on a target'  - considering damage is just the way to go these days in most conflict mechanics.


    Those rites do have nice passive effects before they become divine fire, you know.
  • AshtonAshton Member Posts: 14
    How about this? High in Runelore

    PROJECT (totem)
    Project - A skilled runelore user can, at the cost of (???),  continiously project the first 4(3?) runes from a totem in his inventory into the room, provided there is no totem in the room he's in. A player can only be the target of one projection at a time.

    This lets people who use runelore be completely mobile at the cost of potency. And if necessary, you can make it drain a resource or just restrict the runes that can be projected, or something.
  • AshtonAshton Member Posts: 14
    Or if you wanna trade defense for offense, maybe Runelore users could be able to eat/apply/smoke/whatever an ink to increase their damage/give an additional affliction/something on their next attack within x seconds, but doing this takes up the appropriate balance. So maybe eating a red ink increases the damage of the next attack by 20%, but eating blue ink forces gives the next attack the effect of a random toxin. Or green ink adds psilocybin to their next attack and purple ink makes the next attack inflict a healing absorption shield equal to 10% of the target's max health.

    I'm just spitballing here guys. Take whatever sounds fun and roll with it.
  • XeronXeron Member Posts: 83 ✭✭✭
    I hate the world for missing classleads and Diab not really getting any love. :(
  • AhkanAhkan TexasMember Posts: 2,375 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Oh, there were attempts. They were called "Excessive and Unnecessary." Sorry, dude. We tried. Not everyone has played it, but are allowed to judge it.
    image
  • XeronXeron Member Posts: 83 ✭✭✭
    Ah well. Tried to shoot them an e-mail asking if I could throw a couple ideas at them, got ignored entirely. Diab trash for what, 6 more months? Let's do it.
  • GarrynGarryn Member, Administrator Posts: 527 admin
    Xeron said:
    Ah well. Tried to shoot them an e-mail asking if I could throw a couple ideas at them, got ignored entirely. Diab trash for what, 6 more months? Let's do it.
    Not sure who the "them" are, but I have not received any e-mails from you.
  • XeronXeron Member Posts: 83 ✭✭✭
    I sent to support, cause that was the only e-mail I could find. Where should I try and send to?
  • GarrynGarryn Member, Administrator Posts: 527 admin
    I cannot make any specific promises, but feel free to send any ideas you may have to garryn@imperian.com
  • XeronXeron Member Posts: 83 ✭✭✭
    Will do, thanks for the response.
  • BathanBathan Member Posts: 1,056 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I kind of feel like Malignists just need a rework, rather than trying to band-aid fix them. If you think about it, they're one of the few remaining affliction classes where the win condition is either afflict faster than healing or don't. That's not a good class design these days. I mean, yes, you could adjust stuff for team fights right now which I'd be down for, but I don't know that I'd throw a bunch of time at it trying to make it work as is.
    ‘Least I won’t have to carry it no more. You see how bloody heavy it is?’

    ‘Every sword’s a weight to carry. Men don’t see that when they pick ’em up. But they get heavier with time.”
    Ahkan
  • XeronXeron Member Posts: 83 ✭✭✭
    While it would be ideal (and why I asked about it way long ago when there was a discussion on the changes to Outrider and whatnot), I don't see it as particularly feasible anytime soon, especially with this event they currently have going. Malignist's biggest problem is that it's an Achaean class in a not-Achaea system, and that can't really be fixed easily.

    But without any indication of a rework, just have to start taking baby steps.
  • AhkanAhkan TexasMember Posts: 2,375 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 2012
    Bathan said:
    I kind of feel like Malignists just need a rework, rather than trying to band-aid fix them. If you think about it, they're one of the few remaining affliction classes where the win condition is either afflict faster than healing or don't. That's not a good class design these days. I mean, yes, you could adjust stuff for team fights right now which I'd be down for, but I don't know that I'd throw a bunch of time at it trying to make it work as is.
    This is so weird. I thought of this a few months ago. The modern thought is OMG NO BLURGH RARGH EXCESSIVE /dur apparently.

    Malignist is built around affliction overwhelm. That's a boring way to fight for 99% of people (not malignists). It's also ridiculous as hell to balance. Sadly, most people can't get over the 2006 butthurt when their crappy system got them killed.
    image
  • XeronXeron Member Posts: 83 ✭✭✭
    Well, after talking to Garryn, it looks like the future of Malig is to be balanced around Catharsis, not afflictions, so I've been looking at it all wrong regardless.
    Sarciossis
  • AhkanAhkan TexasMember Posts: 2,375 ✭✭✭✭✭
    It's about time!
    image
  • VayaVaya Member Posts: 3
    edited November 2012
    Hi, I realize that I've missed the boat on the Classleads, I've come back to Imperian after a long time and was very out of the loop when things got rolling.

    I'd like to throw a few small Wardancer suggestions out there, even if they don't have a chance to be implemented soon - they could be considered for a later round of classleads.

    Wardancer has been my favorite profession for a long time, I really like the acrobatic / whirling blades style they have going on. I think a lot more could be made of what skills they currently have rather than implementing new, big things that could make, or, 'break' them.

    First I'd like to suggest that skills such as Kipkick and Forwardroll should be made to be usable while standing, but the game should prone you and look for afflictions before using the skill.
    As a user of the Imperian Curing System it's a big deal to figure out a way to turn off kipup and make use of these skills. I don't think this is a change that would alter the strength of the class in a big way (it would make these underused skills slightly more accessible, to people who know how to use them effectively) -- I hope this could be done without classlead approval!

    Kipkick: Mythical skill - when do you ever see it used?

    I just tested kipkick on a low skill Ranger, who was equipped with chainmail, a banded shield and no Defenses. I have 17 strength and the kipkick did 21 damage. Pretty terrible for a skill that isn't comboable, but there is a way to use it  effectively, kind of, in a rotation. (Good Wardancers hopefully know how)

    1) be able to use it from standing, so it prones you before using the skill and checks for broken limbs and afflictions, as a counter balance.
    2) increase the damage
    3) (least favorite) Change it to a skill that is a defense, the first person to trip you gets kipkicked instead of kipup'd, or even make it targeted. KIPKICK AVASYU sets a defense so the next time you're prone, you kipkick him. Make it do more damage. This would either be on a cooldown or a one time thing, so people can't just spam SIT and break Imperian

    Forwardroll: High skill, Virtuoso? You get it -after- kipup.

    I love the flavor of it, but it's usefulness is very limited. It -is- comboable, unlike kipkick, but the combination of a) the effort you have to go through to turn off `ss or AUTOCURING OFF then SIT, and b) the fact that it doesn't fit a Wardancer of either styles' offense make it unused.

    1) like above, be able to use from standing position
    2) (hesitantly) make it tie in to some kind of offense - see BIND

    Bind: requires rope, entangles the target for a longer duration

    Was crazy broken when you could use it simply off of paralysis. Writhe stack heaven. Though now, it requires the target to be unconscious or sleeping - nigh impossible to make use of in an ordinary fight.

    1) make it so a prone target with 3 or 4 afflictions can be bound. This wouldn't be so useful for strengthdancers, but for flick'n'hack dancers could provide useful. Afflict a few toxins, combo a forwardroll, bind - they're grounded and taking a time out from being able to shield for a few seconds. Edit: ok you're thinking 'but that's transfix surely?' my thought process was that bind is a longer writhe, and would be more useful in that situation.
    2) make it so prone AND paralysed is enough. This would also require a setup with forwardroll, opium/opium etc, and would not be instantly comboable from bladespin for example.
    3) get rid of it, people hate writhestacks, but give us something shiny instead. And delete forwardroll while you're at it!

    I think I've thrown enough out there, thanks for reading / criticizing - and @Garryn please seriously consider making these skills usable from standing!

  • KryssKryss Member Posts: 426 ✭✭✭✭
    I don't think bind should be made easier to do. When one considers the affliction output of Wardancer it's clear that even three afflictions and prone is not hard to achieve. All this will lead to is repeated use of transfix/bind which when setup well is pretty much impossible to retaliate against.

    Wardancer did quite nicely out of this round of classleads I think. The disembowel change really helped to close the gap between afflictions and damage which leaves the class in a far better position then it was before. When you consider you also have overwhelm to transition from afflictions to high speed damage, you can't really complain.

    Regarding the other things mentioned, while little changes to flavor abilities like those can be nice, they are in no way critical right now. Still, certainly something to think about for next time!



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