Circles and RP

13

Comments

  • GurnGurn Member Posts: 787 ✭✭✭✭
    Aeorden said:
    Lemuela said:
    Aeorden said:
    If anything I'd be in favour of leaving orgs as they are and removing how strictly they're bound to circles. Being forced to work with Celidon simply because you're in the same circle can be frustrating at times.
    I think this Event showed that we're not as locked into each other as much as we think just because we share a circle together. At the beginning of the Event, Celidon actually betrayed Kinsarmar by siding up with demons. At the end of it, they went with their Alliance of demoners and anti-magickers against Kinsarmar again. Which I thought was pretty cool that they RP'd outside the box and didn't force themselves to play nice with us just because of a circle. Added some spice to the game and some interesting inner-circle conflict.
    ..and then we forget that ever happened and go back to being one happy circle again.
    Not if I can help it. I like pushing the tension with Kinsarmar, much to the annoyance of the rest of the Advisor council. It's okay though, half the council hates Kinsarmar anyway!
    BathanKariZiat
  • BathanBathan Member Posts: 1,056 ✭✭✭✭✭
    It did make for an awkward pairing considering how many times Keijima had declared war on Celidon. :(
    ‘Least I won’t have to carry it no more. You see how bloody heavy it is?’

    ‘Every sword’s a weight to carry. Men don’t see that when they pick ’em up. But they get heavier with time.”
  • GurnGurn Member Posts: 787 ✭✭✭✭
    With the death of the Gods, I'd actually like to try building more ties with Ithaqua. Since anti-magick is more lax on the working together thing as of the moment, it might be fun to ride the whole "Kinsarmar is the new Stavenn" thing to have councils band together to destroy the city that represents all bad things about cities.
  • KariKari Member Posts: 61 ✭✭✭
    Gurn said:
    With the death of the Gods, I'd actually like to try building more ties with Ithaqua. Since anti-magick is more lax on the working together thing as of the moment, it might be fun to ride the whole "Kinsarmar is the new Stavenn" thing to have councils band together to destroy the city that represents all bad things about cities.
    Ithaqua might be. But Antioch was not too thrilled about the Alliance. Most of the city was fighting it the whole way verbally. But I noticed their tune changed at the end. But I'm more than certain they'll still be the same now.
  • BathanBathan Member Posts: 1,056 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Gurn said:
    With the death of the Gods, I'd actually like to try building more ties with Ithaqua. Since anti-magick is more lax on the working together thing as of the moment, it might be fun to ride the whole "Kinsarmar is the new Stavenn" thing to have councils band together to destroy the city that represents all bad things about cities.
    Ithaqua's backstory allows for some very interesting possibilities, depending on how the players and admin want to do it. It's in a situation right now where a lot of people are not playing the hardline of Magick is bad, thanks largely in part to Cass and Asaka. Call me crazy, but I like it. People in Ithaqua just want to burn Kinsarmar to the ground over what Ithaqua perceives they -did-, not the skills they use, which is refreshing because people will actually roleplay that, where as they won't really roleplay Magick being bad because it's incredibly shallow and there's not much to it. Magick is bad for using Magick, despite the fact that, by in large, Magick doesn't really do anything terrible to the world.

    ‘Least I won’t have to carry it no more. You see how bloody heavy it is?’

    ‘Every sword’s a weight to carry. Men don’t see that when they pick ’em up. But they get heavier with time.”
    AbigailJeremy Saunders
  • AbigailAbigail Member Posts: 332 ✭✭✭
    Bathan said:
    Ithaqua's backstory allows for some very interesting possibilities, depending on how the players and admin want to do it. It's in a situation right now where a lot of people are not playing the hardline of Magick is bad, thanks largely in part to Cass and Asaka. Call me crazy, but I like it. People in Ithaqua just want to burn Kinsarmar to the ground over what Ithaqua perceives they -did-, not the skills they use, which is refreshing because people will actually roleplay that, where as they won't really roleplay Magick being bad because it's incredibly shallow and there's not much to it. Magick is bad for using Magick, despite the fact that, by in large, Magick doesn't really do anything terrible to the world.

    I wish I could give your post more than one like. Seriously, especially with the Gods dead, anti-magick should be less "Magick is heresy and everyone who uses it must die' and more 'Magick is dangerous and we choose to not use it'. Let people choose their own reason for hating the whole circle.
  • SarriusSarrius Member Posts: 1,358 ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 2012
    To be honest, why circles are going to exist if there isn't a reason for each org of a circle to work together is beyond me. It may have been cool and edgy a few years back to make two orgs inside the same side fight each other, but now it is simply counterproductive to the overarching mechanics of the game's conflict - shards, obelisks, etc. I see no reason to 'push tensions' with Kinsarmar, or for Ithaqua and Antioch to fail to see eye to eye, or any other example. These are all fundamentally flawed view points because it nixes an ally you can share mechanical benefits with.

    I am all for roleplay, I am all for conflict. I am all for minor disagreements. I am, however, not okay with disagreements for the sake of disagreements when they hurt the mechanical upkeep of my circle.
  • ZiatZiat Member Posts: 119 ✭✭✭
    I agree with Sarrius. Basically why I keep telling you (Gurn) to keep things cool with Kinsarmar is because we have to support each other and rely on each other. We share shard powers, obelisk powers, bounties etc. We only tend to lose if we don't support Kinsarmar and Kinsarmar doesn't support us. The mechanics don't allow us too. 

    If they do get changed however, things could get interesting but I don't think we can afford every City/Council fighting each other.  
  • KariKari Member Posts: 61 ✭✭✭
    Abigail said:
    Bathan said:
    Ithaqua's backstory allows for some very interesting possibilities, depending on how the players and admin want to do it. It's in a situation right now where a lot of people are not playing the hardline of Magick is bad, thanks largely in part to Cass and Asaka. Call me crazy, but I like it. People in Ithaqua just want to burn Kinsarmar to the ground over what Ithaqua perceives they -did-, not the skills they use, which is refreshing because people will actually roleplay that, where as they won't really roleplay Magick being bad because it's incredibly shallow and there's not much to it. Magick is bad for using Magick, despite the fact that, by in large, Magick doesn't really do anything terrible to the world.

    I wish I could give your post more than one like. Seriously, especially with the Gods dead, anti-magick should be less "Magick is heresy and everyone who uses it must die' and more 'Magick is dangerous and we choose to not use it'. Let people choose their own reason for hating the whole circle.
    Actually, with the Gods being gone I think it gives more fuel to the fire for most AM (From what I notice) In their eyes, Magick has yet again hurt the world. They opened up the Demons. The Demons came and killed their Divine. The very Divine they call upon. Even though there is still a "Divine realm" which still holds some "Divine Power" in which they are getting their power from. All their Gods that they devoted their life to are gone, and it was because Magick opened the gate. So they are more leaning towards "There you go, you screwed the world yet again!" kind of thing. Oddly enough though. Antioch is better allied with Khandava again, even with their "Demonic taint" due to them putting aside their differences and helping with forts and even destroying the rift.
  • KariKari Member Posts: 61 ✭✭✭
    Ziat said:
    I agree with Sarrius. Basically why I keep telling you (Gurn) to keep things cool with Kinsarmar is because we have to support each other and rely on each other. We share shard powers, obelisk powers, bounties etc. We only tend to lose if we don't support Kinsarmar and Kinsarmar doesn't support us. The mechanics don't allow us too. 

    If they do get changed however, things could get interesting but I don't think we can afford every City/Council fighting each other.  
    Double post sorry! 

    I think if the game mechanics some how allowed you to re-ally yourself with someone. So say Ithaqua and Celidon choose to be allies, then their bounties, obelisks, etc will be switched. The only thing that falls through on this, is it would have to be re-coded into Obelisks that it's not by circle. Either have it where you can name your alliance and it be picked up through your alliance or go back to it being city-wide (Which all around is a terrible idea)
    Caelya
  • CadeyrnCadeyrn Member Posts: 188 ✭✭✭

    Kari said:
    Ziat said:
    I agree with Sarrius. Basically why I keep telling you (Gurn) to keep things cool with Kinsarmar is because we have to support each other and rely on each other. We share shard powers, obelisk powers, bounties etc. We only tend to lose if we don't support Kinsarmar and Kinsarmar doesn't support us. The mechanics don't allow us too. 

    If they do get changed however, things could get interesting but I don't think we can afford every City/Council fighting each other.  
    Double post sorry! 

    I think if the game mechanics some how allowed you to re-ally yourself with someone. So say Ithaqua and Celidon choose to be allies, then their bounties, obelisks, etc will be switched. The only thing that falls through on this, is it would have to be re-coded into Obelisks that it's not by circle. Either have it where you can name your alliance and it be picked up through your alliance or go back to it being city-wide (Which all around is a terrible idea)
    I'd give it 6 months before someone proposes that we all just join in one alliance and all have access to all the obelisks. We'd occasionally see someone hot-headed pull their city out, work out that 5v1 in obelisk combat is pointless, then we'd return to the status quo.
  • KariKari Member Posts: 61 ✭✭✭
    The Admin can always throw it in where there can only be say 2 or 3 orgs in an alliance. So that it won't happen. 
  • JorachimJorachim Member Posts: 83 ✭✭✭
    Cadeyrn said:
    I'd give it 6 months before someone proposes that we all just join in one alliance and all have access to all the obelisks. We'd occasionally see someone hot-headed pull their city out, work out that 5v1 in obelisk combat is pointless, then we'd return to the status quo.
    2012/10/19 16:21:46 - Jorachim added the Council of Khandava to the list of unwanted organizations.
    2012/10/19 16:21:49 - Jorachim added the City of Stavenn to the list of unwanted organizations.

    Mostly because he knows **** won't stay that way without talking.

    Not that I'm against any new or odd RP. This just seems like part of developing it
    Someone powerful says, "Its broken. No more pulling the guillotine."
  • ApolocApoloc Member Posts: 241 ✭✭✭
    edited October 2012
    Kinsarmar opening the Demon Gate aside: The Power of Demonic entities (though much greater than what Stavenn commands) slew the Gods, Demonic beliefs by extension are guilty by association, even though the Demonic Circle was against the Demons, a hint of Demonic power always resides in the 'evil' demonic circle.  Magick, the power of the Gods, proved to be too weak to defend against the Demons who invaded our world, thus insinuating Magick itself is weak.

    And somehow people think this will weaken the Anti-magick stance on Demonic and Magick powers?  
    Please, if anything this event should lead to more radical fanaticism against them.  I really do not understand how the above logic is formed.

    Though while I hope, I sincerely doubt that at least Antioch will embrace the idea of being a more aggressive community, at least not aggressive in the sense I would like.  
    image

    Jorachim
  • KhizanKhizan Member Posts: 2,648 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Bathan said:
    Most of Ithaqua was  fine with Celidon because they weren't so brazenly like WE BLEW UP THE GODS COME AT ME BRO.

    Look, that's probably the only chance I'm ever going to have to kill all the Gods. I'm damn sure not going to waste it, even if it means we go it alone Celidon is a pack of indecisive cowards.

    THE GODS HAD IT COMING. ALL OF THEM. YES, THIS MEANS VAHIN TOO. SIT AROUND FOR DECADES LETTING ADANEDHEL WORLDBURN 2v2, WILL YOU? DIE!


    "On the battlefield I am a god. I love war. The steel, the smell, the corpses. I wish there were more. On the first day I drove the Northmen back alone at the ford. Alone! On the second I carried the bridge! Me! Yesterday I climbed the Heroes! I love war! I… I wish it wasn’t over."

  • Jeremy SaundersJeremy Saunders Administrator Posts: 1,158 admin
    Mkvenner said:
    Jeremy said:
    This is about the role play and dynamics between circles and how to make them more interesting.
    I think the point is thing would be more interesting if an RP mistake wasn't potentially gonna cost us a hundred quid or more.
    I will keep it mulling in the back of my head then. My thing is that I hate people jumping from circle to circle.  As a player I used to hate it when my worst enemies would suddenly we welcome into the city because they got tried of their other one. Three months later they got tired and switched back to their first city and class. It made no sense RP wise. Of course, back then you did not get any lessons back.

    BathanKariZiatSanaiMiichelle
  • BathanBathan Member Posts: 1,056 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Yah. I'd rather see a focus on making the factions more engaging and worthwhile to be apart of than try and make it easier to circle hop.
    ‘Least I won’t have to carry it no more. You see how bloody heavy it is?’

    ‘Every sword’s a weight to carry. Men don’t see that when they pick ’em up. But they get heavier with time.”
    Kari
  • GurnGurn Member Posts: 787 ✭✭✭✭
    Ziat said:
    I agree with Sarrius. Basically why I keep telling you (Gurn) to keep things cool with Kinsarmar is because we have to support each other and rely on each other. We share shard powers, obelisk powers, bounties etc. We only tend to lose if we don't support Kinsarmar and Kinsarmar doesn't support us. The mechanics don't allow us too. 

    If they do get changed however, things could get interesting but I don't think we can afford every City/Council fighting each other.  
    I don't know if you've noticed, but I'm geared towards the RP side of things-- I don't actually take mechanics into consideration when this stuff happens. If we do go to war with Kinsarmar, if we do come to fighting and all sorts of things go down, so long as it's RP'd well and many deliciously epic thing happen, then I'm sure the admins would be willing to accommodate us on that.

    Not doing something just because the 'built in mechanics' are that way has always pissed me off. Mechanics can be changed, they're just there because that's how the game is right now, but it doesn't mean it can't change, or that you should be afraid to try something bold because of the consequences. That is that makes a boring and stagnant game.
    BathanDelrayneAeordenApoloc
  • SanaiSanai Member Posts: 32 ✭✭
    Jeremy said:
    Mkvenner said:
    Jeremy said:
    This is about the role play and dynamics between circles and how to make them more interesting.
    I think the point is thing would be more interesting if an RP mistake wasn't potentially gonna cost us a hundred quid or more.
    I will keep it mulling in the back of my head then. My thing is that I hate people jumping from circle to circle.  As a player I used to hate it when my worst enemies would suddenly we welcome into the city because they got tried of their other one. Three months later they got tired and switched back to their first city and class. It made no sense RP wise. Of course, back then you did not get any lessons back.
    Yeah, I hate people playing games to have fun, too.

    Come on, seriously?
  • Jeremy SaundersJeremy Saunders Administrator Posts: 1,158 admin
    Enforcing RP circles is not an effort to remove fun from the game. It helps create PK (fun) and RP possibilities (fun). In fact, Imperian was the first game to let you multiclass and increased the amount of lessons you get back from quitting classes in an effort to keep things more fun. It is a balancing act however.

    ApolocZiatIniar
  • AbigailAbigail Member Posts: 332 ✭✭✭
    Sanai said:
    Yeah, I hate people playing games to have fun, too.

    Come on, seriously?
    How dare we have to roleplay within a roleplaying game! I should be allowed to do whatever I want because it's fun! Rules are for losers!

    image
    Sanai
  • ApolocApoloc Member Posts: 241 ✭✭✭
    That is true, I neglect the fact that when I log into Achaea, I cannot forget things like evasion over there.  Nor is there multi-professions to my recollection.  Sometimes we dont know how good we have it.
    image

  • SanaiSanai Member Posts: 32 ✭✭
    The changes we have are good, I'm not disparaging them, but the <CIRCLE> 4 LIFE CHANGING IS FOR LOSERS idea is pretty toxic. This isn't purely an RP game, there are concerns at hand beyond just the RP. And hell, that doesn't even take into account the fact that RP is dynamic by nature, and itself can encourage changes. Locking in is just a terrible idea, especially in a game this size. I mean, there's a huge long list of reasons why people change circles and how often they do it, and it's usually a lot more nuanced than just 'I was bored' - people get tired of classes and have no interest in what's left in their circle, or they get pushed out by a city for a variety of reasons, or they're at odds with their faction leadership, or they want to play with some certain friends (not necessarily OOC ones, either!). Conflict and RP should flow naturally, not arbitrarily.
  • Jeremy SaundersJeremy Saunders Administrator Posts: 1,158 admin
    I agree with that and if you really want to change you can. Matt and I have discussed some ways to make it easier. But nothing has really stuck yet, so don't expect anything soon.

  • AbigailAbigail Member Posts: 332 ✭✭✭
    I've only ever had a character that changed circle once, and it was for a big RP reason.

    Back during the God stuff, Kanna was up with Malkav who was talking to the demons Slen and Visyra. When Malkav started getting his **** kicked, she pleaded to Stavenn to help and was met with pretty much "lol IDK" as a response. Kanna took this as a sign of betrayal and abandonment and, choosing the memory of her God over Stavenn's don't-give-a-damn attitude, abandoned them and joined Magick instead.



  • AlarickAlarick Member Posts: 22
    edited October 2012
    I've changed circle several times, mostly for reasons Sanai listed above. In my view, it's on the receiving org to make things believable. If I spent decades terrorizing a city, murdering its citizens and overall making myself its arch-nemesis, then yeah, they shouldn't accept me without a lot of hoop jumping - if at all. That's on the people there, though, not the people moving.

    Edit: Actually, it could be cool if there were NPC riots over certain people entering easily. The way it's handled would say a lot about the character of the city leaders, and their motivations.
  • ApolocApoloc Member Posts: 241 ✭✭✭
    I followed Malkav for a long time, across two different players I reckon.  Sadly I cannot fault Stavenn for 'turning their backs' on him.  The entire foundation was a bit shaky, and the initial direction of the order was a pretty big failure.
    image

  • LionasLionas Member, Historian Posts: 765 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I changed circles once. Only, when I did it I took a whole forest with me.
    (Please ignore the fact that I've had non-Lionas characters that have changed circle)
    I am the righteous one... 
    the claims are stated - it's the world I've created 
    Iniar
  • KhizanKhizan Member Posts: 2,648 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Alarick said:
    If I spent decades terrorizing a city, murdering its citizens and overall making myself its arch-nemesis, then yeah, they shouldn't accept me without a lot of hoop jumping - if at all. That's on the people there, though, not the people moving.  
    I dunno. There's a certain legitimacy to "If we let Dregaur join, he stops being OUR problem and starts being THEIR problem."

    "On the battlefield I am a god. I love war. The steel, the smell, the corpses. I wish there were more. On the first day I drove the Northmen back alone at the ford. Alone! On the second I carried the bridge! Me! Yesterday I climbed the Heroes! I love war! I… I wish it wasn’t over."

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